RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning

[CaliGirl]

Sooo out of no where..mainly because I was looking on the ISA site for names...

Sad, Joran was honor roll as well his brother. How could they be avid partiers and keep those grades?

Random thought.. sorry, just makes me wonder how this all got to this point.

His mom said that he didn't want to get out of bed in the morning. I guess if you're out in the casinos till 3:00am, yeah it might be hard to wake-up!

Yeah but honor roll??? lol

lol Starting to wonder if it wasn't poker he was playing.. he played a texas hold'em tournament...odd for a poker player to play blackjack

Maybe playing blackjack helped him in math!

[inspector_detector]

This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.

You have to keep in mind the Dutch system. Seems like they can arrest anyone for anything with now evidence whatsoever. Remember the 2 security guards?

[BlueBob]

Lorenzo van Rijn must not be a VDS because he does not have a tickle site.

[AzRose]

Lorenzo van Rijn must not be a VDS because he does not have a tickle site.

LOL !!

[Juvenal]

Wake me up when it is over.

I find the whole picture ugly and getting uglier.

First American teens are sent to an island where the prime reason for going is gambling, booze and the ready availability of drugs and prostitutes, oh yes and a nice beach and reasonable rooms are thrown in to cover the primary motive.

Then Natalee, who is not prepared to be on her own, having been under the thumb of a domineering mother for 18 years, is suddenly set free and makes some really bad decisions.

Then Joran who has had too little direction in life and may have serious problems with controlling his own behavior crosses paths with easy prey, and who knows what happened.

Throw in an incompetent Aruban beauracy and a legal system straight out of the dark ages, not to mention a predatory US press pressuring for quick results, and you have this circus that we all watch, somewhat like the great Roman circuses, complete with Christians and lions.  

And this is our entertainment, we voyuers of violence and depravity. What will be the next big mess that fixates us?

good post  aunt twitty said today natalee has been in the family since 7 years.  holloway has a 7 year old by his new wife.  when did they jug/beth divorce?  did natalee stay with mom or dad?  can you imagine laid back patient and considerate holloway married to beth?

I don't think that's being fair to her. You're seeing her when her child has disappeared without a trace. She's had to fight tooth and nail to get any answers, any action at all. Of course she seems a little domineering right now. I can only hope that I would be that domineering in such a situation. We don't know what she was like day to day.

[nancy_drew]

Hannity and Colmes is on again...for anyone who missed Beth's interview the first time around.

[Getagrip]

This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.

In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?

[6prs'o'klompen]

Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)

This theory is still a good one and premeditation might fit here if Joran took her to the beach as a "payment" to drug dealers that were already there... or maybe Steve Croes was the guy who needed her as payment, so Joran was helping his friend out, offered Natalee, since he apparantly didn't win enough at blackjack that night...

[BlueBob]

I have had to fight really hard in life/death situations for loved ones.  Even the meekest person will fight like a mother bear for someone she loves.  I really get the impression that Beth is a good mother to Natalee and her determination now shouldn't be taken as an overbearing mother in normal times.

[Itawamba]

We haven't heard much about the texas equusearch group today.  Someone (who was near Houston I believe) posted last night that some members were shown live on local tv flying out.  Also, if they are/were having trouble getting their dogs down there can we assume they won't be taking their horses?

That was me.  We didn't hear a word about them today, which means to me that Tim & the skeleton crew (sorry--I mean the first 3 that went with him) hit the ground running and were getting the lay of the land and having meetings all over the island to get the logistics in place.  Didn't bother me that there wasn't coverage, even here in their hometown.

I did learn that Tim and the first group left around 7PM last night, not 10PM like I thought, so they got a really good head start on the day today.  The rest won't be there until Friday and I'm not certain if the dogs are with Tim or if they're going in the Friday group.  (No, no horses!)  I did learn that they'll have divers, too, which I wasn't certain about.  It's harder to get them out for long trips. (Expensive down time for them, since they're volunteers.)

Today (Thursday) we should hear something about what they're up to.

[Getagrip]

Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.

[LilOrphan]

"Gijn" doesn't even sound like "Rijn," except they "rhyme" like "Rhine," lol.  But there IS a lady named "van Rijn" listed in Aruba, which fits with the name of a widow, an older one who still has a land line with a phone listing.  

I can understand all the youngers being hard-to-find because of their cell phones, but that one fit and I liked the irony of a possible earlier liaison of Paulus's in Holland being later married to a distant offspring of Rembrandt--then Paulus marrying an art teacher.  It was just so symmetrical!

Bah.  Pish tosh.

LOL. Add to that the fact that every search engine in which you place the name comes up with Return of the Prodigal Son and there's a certain poetry at work.

[CaliGirl]

Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.

Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol

[Getagrip]

Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.

Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol

LOL Saw that last night...but didn't realize it was at C'nC's.  So much is missed when one is speed reading

[dl3fan]

Itawamba, thanks for the update on the texas equusearch team.

[Bamagal73]

This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.

In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?

Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?

[Itawamba]

Oh my! I just realized that monkey mural is at C'nC's!  I guess it's fitting that the Scared Monkeys would get to the bottom of this...but that's just eerie.

Did you notice the monkey's hand looking to try to grab Joran? lol

Yeah, and didja notice Urine doing the Bunny Hop?  Hop, hop, hop?

[Scott]

Here's a late-night-outside-the-box thought....

Does Joran's cell phone have a built-in camera?

[Getagrip]

This is the only instance where I could see premeditated murder applied:

- Joran calls Kelpoes for a lift

- roofied NH at some point

- death of NH, due to roofies possibly in conjunction with alcohol previously consumed

Then again, I'm just as confused as the rest of you by the latest developments.

In order for it to be premeditated, would they not have to prove that they knowingly gave her so much of the drug that it would be lethal?

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself properly. I'm starting to get bleary eyed (and bleary brained?)  from all this reading.

If JVDS's intention all along was to administer roofies to have his way (that was the night's plan), and NH died from an adverse reaction (she was tiny at 5'3" and 110 lbs, and we don't know how much or how long she had been drinking), and after this happening, he disposed of the body...

...I'm by no means a lawyer or any kind of legal/criminal expert, but I'd say this case would be tried as 1st degree, no?

Accidental death with improper disposal of corpse?

I don't think that administering rohypnol is legal. Can't it be likened to administering poison?  In both cases, you don't know what dosage can kill.  Esp. the case when mixed with alcohol.

In any case, I think we're trying to make the distinction between premeditated and not?

[inthepacific]

Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)

Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 

It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.

I didn't watch that interview Nancy, was looking for it and somebody provided a link to it on Fox but I still couldn't find it. I would have liked to watch that. Perhaps this is why she is holding up so well, she knows something we do not. If she thinks Natalee is alive, she may have good reason to believe, that from her sources within this investigation, they have told her they believe she is alive and being held captive somewhere.

I think I posted the link for you, or someone.

Go to the link and look at the top right...there's a heading that says something like "FREE FOX VIDEOS"  below it is a picture of Beth and a link to the video.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160486,00.html

You won't see the box unless your screen is open all the way. I just noticed my bookmarks are open now and I had to scroll to the right to see the box.

Sorry Nancy, still not finding it on that page. At the top right of that page is offered "videos" I clicked on that but not interview with beth there. Who was interviewing her?

Try this link and see if it works.

Holy shit, this sheds a new light on this investigation, watching this video with Beth and what she has to say.

Points she mentioned in this interview that we don't know about. Inside information between the Hollaways and the Van der Sloots...

1. More people have to be questioned and arrested

2. More people involved. FBI, local authorities know who they are.

3. My daughter has been "kidnapped" and the 3 individuals in custody know what happened.

4. Beth believes she is alive.

5. She believes she is on the island being held

6. The interview with her and Van der sloots(Mr.) she knows he knows something and this was confirmed when she was at his home.

7. This was not a contencious meeting Beth says

8. Beth has confirmation now that he has some information.(Mr. VDS)

9. The LE and investigative team are NOT keeping them in the dark.