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Author Topic: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning  (Read 233770 times)
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6prs'o'klompen
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« Reply #240 on: June 24, 2005, 02:53:06 AM »

well, folks, time for bed
I'm getting scoliosis and carpal eyeball
G'nite!
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iquitos
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« Reply #241 on: June 24, 2005, 02:53:09 AM »

thanks for the darkside piece.
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Itawamba
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« Reply #242 on: June 24, 2005, 02:54:14 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


I don't "get" that, either.  But it was just one girl's comment--and maybe she has a different perspective than some of the other friends.  Like, looking at it with a negative spin on it.  I can't figure out why others said Nat had been with *with* or seen with Joran several days before that--and this girl comes along with a *stranger* scenario on the last night.

And that *lo and behold* is the same as the alleged Deepak *version*.  Huh?  How come so many people who were there to have their own fun happened to even notice this "first meeting" of Natalee with Urine?

That doesn't make sense, even in historical perspective of what we need to examine NOW, with Natalee missing.
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inthepacific
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« Reply #243 on: June 24, 2005, 02:54:27 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!
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LouLou
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« Reply #244 on: June 24, 2005, 02:56:39 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.
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LostinTime
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« Reply #245 on: June 24, 2005, 02:58:17 AM »

Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


That's Southern Hospitality
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #246 on: June 24, 2005, 02:58:25 AM »

Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg
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Getagrip
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« Reply #247 on: June 24, 2005, 02:59:45 AM »

Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.
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dl3fan
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« Reply #248 on: June 24, 2005, 02:59:55 AM »

Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!
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« Reply #249 on: June 24, 2005, 03:00:17 AM »

Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.
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Juvenal
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« Reply #250 on: June 24, 2005, 03:02:29 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.
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Getagrip
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« Reply #251 on: June 24, 2005, 03:03:43 AM »

The whole content of iquitos' post is from Dan Rheil's latest post on his Rheil World View blog: http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.
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-------->  Aruba = Opposite World  <--------
dl3fan
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« Reply #252 on: June 24, 2005, 03:04:00 AM »

If Joran and Natalee had contact with each other before her arrival in Aruba could that be part of the "premeditated" charges?
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inthepacific
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« Reply #253 on: June 24, 2005, 03:04:45 AM »

Quote from: "dl3fan"
Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!


Com'n now, don't call the kettle black. You are in a forum that is in search of a missing girl, cut the crap. Why would you be bothered to worry about all the pics and info on here anyway?
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Rosalie
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« Reply #254 on: June 24, 2005, 03:04:55 AM »

Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...

Do we have a street for the "spray painted house" mentioned earlier?




MAYBE he doesnt live on Aruba. Another island or nearby mainland. ?
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #255 on: June 24, 2005, 03:05:59 AM »

Quote from: "dl3fan"
Wondering what kind of jobs some of y'all have in order to have time to find all these pics and info on the internet?  LOL.  Glad you have the time though!


LMAO I work for an online extention campus for a university  Wink So I have to be on the internet! lol
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iquitos
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« Reply #256 on: June 24, 2005, 03:08:48 AM »

THIS IS ALL FROM DAN, NOT ME

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Iquitos, please make clear whether this whole thing is quoted from Dan's site or is from your own contact.

Wow, that's horrible.  If there is an adult professional (and most professionals are adults) who believed that Joran was raping and incapacitating multiple victims, then this guy is effectively responsible for not stopping this by not acting.  It was irresponsible to say the least if he believed that and didn't go to the police.  It makes you wonder about the truth of a statement like that.  

Now, I am not taking sides here.  I want Natalee back and anyone responsible prosecuted.  I was thinking earlier that Joran was innocent.  I still do but now it looks bad.  

Joran's internet profiles could support the item posted by Iquitos.  He was pretending to be eighteen and in college.  That can only be for the consumption of tourist females because everyone on an island that size would have known how old he was.  He must have been trying to make contact with them.  Now what would that appeal have been?  Women who are in town for a short while.  They might be sought out for casual sex, or because it would be difficult for them to prosecute him.   Again, I hope that item isn't true and I'm just speculating.  There are obviously less sinister explanations for what he was up to.  

Just more reasons to keep an eye on your teenage boys.  If he didn't have that separate apartment it would have been better.  My friend had a teenage boy in a set up like that and something else bad happened.

His mother was saying she could see his computer stuff.  Did she know about him lying about his age?  I doubt it.
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stlnative
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« Reply #257 on: June 24, 2005, 03:10:51 AM »

What can you tell me about this Lorenzo... so I can do some research on him. All I know is that he suppose to a son to Paulus Van Der Sloot.
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inthepacific
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« Reply #258 on: June 24, 2005, 03:11:36 AM »

Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.


Ohh, i agree, I know I would be acting like an angry bear. I find that Beth is a domineering mother, no doubt in my mind, her strength through this has proved just that.

My only perception is that she didn't educate her daughter leaving her country and going into a foreign country and the dangers involved.

We know that Natalee left with somewhat strangers, we know that her girlfriends would have never allowed it, had they been with her at the close of the night.
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iquitos
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« Reply #259 on: June 24, 2005, 03:11:50 AM »

Quote from: "Rosalie"
Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Rijn Deborah T VanFahrenheitstraat 19..............................582-1391


Aha!  You found it using their system of alphabetizing.

I'm glad it's late.  It'd be a shame to get that "don't publish phone numbers & addresses" fight going again.  Just kidding.  

This Lorenzo thing has had me crazy for days.  I can usually find SOMETHING.  Not on this one, no matter what spelling of the name...

Do we have a street for the "spray painted house" mentioned earlier?




MAYBE he doesnt live on Aruba. Another island or nearby mainland. ?


LORENZO IS KNOWN TO LIVE ON ARUBA. not yelling, for emphasis only
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