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Author Topic: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning  (Read 233616 times)
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inthepacific
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« Reply #260 on: June 24, 2005, 03:12:38 AM »

Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


Actually, pacific, that was neil who said that. I was arguing with him.

Nobody's saying that the platitude that "you have to let kids grow up," is wrong. It's clearly right.

Neil is saying that he can tell, apparently by looking at her facial expressions on TV, that he thinks Beth H-T is a "domineering mother." That's what I'm taking issue with. He has no idea what their homelife is like.

In my opinion, there is something wrong with a mother who, under these circumstances, doesn't take on some of the characteristics of an "angry bear" who has been robbed of her cubs! It is natural--and proper--behavior.


Ohh, i agree, I know I would be acting like an angry bear. I find that Beth is a domineering mother, no doubt in my mind, her strength through this has proved just that.

My only perception is that she didn't educate her daughter leaving her country and going into a foreign country and the dangers involved.

We know that Natalee left with somewhat strangers, we know that her girlfriends would have never allowed it, had they been with her at the close of the night.
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sb
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« Reply #261 on: June 24, 2005, 03:15:14 AM »

Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.
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Natalee's family/friends still need our prayers.
CaliGirl
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« Reply #262 on: June 24, 2005, 03:16:59 AM »

Quote from: "sb"
Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.


Are we looking at the same house? lol
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TTownMike
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« Reply #263 on: June 24, 2005, 03:18:28 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.


Hey everbody!  I just got here and havent looked back at what you refer to (re: Dan )but I've heard too much about Urine bein round a couple days, her two friends just didn't see him around to think otherwise.  I think they relate from their perspective which may be off!

What else been goin on?
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Itawamba
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« Reply #264 on: June 24, 2005, 03:18:30 AM »

There is another way it's possible as far as Natalee and Joran meeting by chance at the casino.  Since he's a fixture in there, he's more apt to notice whatever is "out of place" than someone who is just taking it all in for the first time.

So, he was on a winning streak and that's what attracted Natalee, supposedly, right?  I don't know about you, but I've never noticed any other casino players on a hot streak anyplace other than maybe the roulette tables or certain blackjack tables.  And of course, the big slots.

But what attracts the attention?  Other people standing around the player, sort of cheering, or gathering in a small crowd to watch in awe and wonder.  Winners are heroes!

So, what if Joran hadn't been winning that night?  Is he just such a "lucky duck" that he always seems to come out on top in everything he does--school grades, sports, Texas Hold 'em Poker, cards?  How in the world does that happen?  Very few people can pull off continual success.

Still thinking about this...more in a minute...
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stlnative
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« Reply #265 on: June 24, 2005, 03:18:48 AM »

Please someone tell me about this Lorenzo so that I can do some research on him. Do you have his last name - what infor do you have on him?
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Michael22
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« Reply #266 on: June 24, 2005, 03:20:10 AM »

Quote from: "sb"
Joran HAD to have had his own computer in that apartment. I can't imagine that he could have posted the stuff he put on those sites with Momma looking over his shoulder. I mean get real, it is UNHEARD OF for a teenager his age to not have a PC. Why didn't the mother mention that? Deepak apparently had his own PC.

BTW, anyone notice that Kalpoe home? It was more upscale than the VDS home! That interior was like it was just remodeled.


I did see when they took Joran's computer out and put it in the trunk
of some car seized as evidence..
looked like a custom pc silver with
looked like exhaust pipes inside
kinda cool
I sure he spared no expense when he built it..
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iquitos
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« Reply #267 on: June 24, 2005, 03:20:45 AM »

have you folks seen all the spectacular native chicks on the island?  plus, prostitution is legal.  why chase tourists except that it is probably the local male sport and it keeps the local girls prisitne for marriage.  tourists as an outlet.  can't imagine it applies to joran.

a tourist is somehow dehumanized in the eyes of the local: here today, gone tomorrow, sometimes looking for trouble, no consequences, variety, lucrative, generous, rich, exotic ...  why drug them?
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Cerulean
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« Reply #268 on: June 24, 2005, 03:22:58 AM »

Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
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cast
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« Reply #269 on: June 24, 2005, 03:23:18 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "Scarlett"
Quote from: "bluebob"
Did the "C. Necktie" incident really not happen on the island???????????
Quote
No, it really did happen on the island.  It was reported in the paper, and gave the man's name, although I can't remember what it was, only that it was dutch.

:::running through the door:::::

His name was Renee... I can't remember the last name but it was Dutch


RENEE VAN HANEGEM, his wife works nights at one of the hotels in Aruba.
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TTownMike
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« Reply #270 on: June 24, 2005, 03:24:45 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?
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Chaumes
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« Reply #271 on: June 24, 2005, 03:24:50 AM »

Juvenal:
Quote
"... the emptiest speculation I've seen in this forum."

Pretty much.
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #272 on: June 24, 2005, 03:26:05 AM »

Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 Surprised  Surprised  Surprised  Rolling Eyes
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TTownMike
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« Reply #273 on: June 24, 2005, 03:27:49 AM »

Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.


I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!
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Juvenal
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« Reply #274 on: June 24, 2005, 03:27:58 AM »

Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?


For the record Mike, I didn't say anything quoted here. I agree with you completely.
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iquitos
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« Reply #275 on: June 24, 2005, 03:28:58 AM »

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Thanks for the clarification, Iquitos and GetaGrip

Gee, I pride myself on reading faces.  I've hitchhiked (successfully) and been in a variety of situations but I didn't see that darkness in the male Van Der Sloot's faces.

Not saying what happened, or what didn't happen, just different impressions.
as far as i am concered you din't see it becasue it is not there.  meester van der sloot is an oficious bureaucrat LE guy.  the kid seems like maybe too serious with a fertile imagination. he is not bad either as i read him  maybe awkward, dignified, distant, uncomfortable like his dad around strangers.  natalee is described by her dad as th opposite outgoing, gregarious, wants to meet new people,determined, intelligent and probably mature for her age she looks centered and laid back to me.
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #276 on: June 24, 2005, 03:29:40 AM »

Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

I am starting to think the only that makes sense.. is a change machine  Laughing

I dont think any of that makes sense!  Have you forgotten about the shovin match?  That was much earlier!
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inthepacific
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« Reply #277 on: June 24, 2005, 03:29:55 AM »

Quote from: "TTownMike"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
I think it's safe to say that you're not a mom.

Beth is behaving like most mothers with a missing child would be behaving. Except, she has held up exceptionally well under these surreal circumstances.
 
Quote from: "neil"
Juvenal,

Actually I think it is fair.  When people are under stress they show themselves the most because they lack the energy to put on a front.

I do fee badly for the pain all these people feel.  That does not mean that I should not observe and reach conclusions about them.  Plenty of people have commented on positive things about Beth so it seems fair to observe the opposite.

You can hardly fail to notice that Beth is in charge of the Twitty family.  She is the one out there in front.  One facit of her personality is the "screamer".  The one that makes irrational threatening demands like, "I want my daughter and I want her now."  "I am not leaving this island without my daughter."  That may be what she wants but that is hardly going to force someone to give her Natalee.   Then there is the overcontrolled sweet Beth where you can see that every ounce of her energy is used to come across as nice and sweet southern lady, while at the same time she looks like she will explode any minute.  You can see this control in the tension in her lips.

If she is dealing with adults like she does, can you imagine how she treats her own children in the privacy of her home.  I think she is boss and she dominates her children.  In fact at one time in this saga, my wife and I were talking about the probable Beth/Natalee relationship and we both said that if it wasn't clear that Natalee had her bags packed and was ready to return home, that she probably ran away to escape her mom.

If you let a child of 2 yrs cross a busy street by themselves you are neglegent. If you insist in not letting a 16 yr. old cross the street by themselves you have crippled them and when the leave home they will have real trouble crossing the street by themselves.  Overcontrol deprives a child of learning to control themselves so when they are on their own they have not had practice in controlling their own behavior.  Many 18 year olds leave home and go wild because have never learned self control (there parents never let them learn).  This is why, along with reports of Natalee's behavior, that I think that Beth ruled the house.

All this does not mean squat, except that I think it illuminates why Natalee might have made a bad judgement.


Juvenal has some good points here folks, I have 2 sons, yes, Beth seems to be in control of her family, so much so, perhaps she never gave Nat some free reigns at her age.

Anyone knows that today, we have to let our kids be themselves and have some fun, but that doesn't go without teaching them the dangers. Someone once told me, there comes a time that you have to stop parenting and start being a coach(disconnect yourself as the parent) By this I mean, start LISTENING to your young adults, rather than demanding, demanding, and suffocating them with...do this, don't do that!


No offense intended but I think yall are both still way off.  Where is this crap coming from.  Of course Beth come out strong( even stronger the Jug)  Remember she is her Mom and he is her stepdad.  What would you expect?


Just a few assumptions, is all.
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TTownMike
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« Reply #278 on: June 24, 2005, 03:30:21 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Well Lorenzo supossedly owned a speed boat.. they searched boats

Here the news article (not in english but has pictures of them searching)

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg


Hey Cali, you sweet thang!  ANd jes who is Lorenzo?  Please!
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TTownMike
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« Reply #279 on: June 24, 2005, 03:31:25 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
What I don't get, is it was said by Natalee's friend's she introduced herself to Joran. So it's not like he persued her, stalked her, plotted something etc.

I find that odd.


You're right Cali, it seems to me this was just an innocent meeting between the 2 of them. This is what I can't get my head around, as far as pre-meditated. If anything, from what I can see here, she was the one to come onto Joran with conversation. Wasn't like he was seeking her out or anything.


More that that, she insisted on buying him a drink at the bar. When he won some money for her.

If you read Dan Rheil's latest (posted a few posts above), and it is to be believed, the whole scenario makes sense.

The unfortunate part is that Natalee may not have been targetted per se, it could have been any other girl, but she just happened to be the opportune one.


Can someone gimme a clue to find Dan's quote?  Please!
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