RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning

[mojo]

just a quick update from hasibokos this am -

Latest developments in The Netherlands (Friday):
The media in The Netherlands has picked up the story about the arrest of Paul van der Sloot on Friday. They reported the following:

Justitie verdenkt de Nederlandse rechter Paul van der S. (53) van het medeplegen van moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg. (Read Dutch article here )

Translation:
The justice department suspects the Dutch judge, Paul van der S. (53), of being accessory to murder, manslaughter or kidnapping with dead as consequence.

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/10/2005

[cancon]

oh oh it gets better,  the security guards say they never met the boys but when the security guards were arrested it was reported they were known to the police, the one guard has some run in with the law, so maybe Daddy, in his position,  knew these guys had been warned about aggressive behaviour trying to pick up tourists, so he steered the boys towards implicating them?  perhaps as someone who also hangs out in all these places, he's witnessed it, because here is the other thing, the one guard was at the Holiday Inn casino, that night, but was reported to have left at midnight, if Joran's old man was gambling there, he saw Mickey Johns, knew about Abraham Jones run in with the law so then it makes even more sense when he tells the boys to say they dropped off Natalee at the Holiday Inn because he knew Mickey was at the Holiday Inn that night

problem was John and Jones alibi's checked out, no one said Mr. VDS was a rocket scientist

he may have just arrogantly presumed his son and he would be believed over two black security guards

[momto5]

okay, one last amendment to my theory

sounds like Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino on the night of May 29th

of course we know Joran left the Holiday Inn Casino and ended up at C & Cs -

now let's assume the Kalpoe brothers dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott which now seems to be the story they are all singing now

assume something bad happens and Joran panics

Joran has a cell phone, he knows Dad is gambling just up the road, for all we know Dad moved to the Marriott casino and was even closer by

now if Dad was in either of those casinos he'd been on their videotape wouldn't he

hmmmmmmm

That has gone through my mind as well. I think Joran was fine with being dropped there bc he knew he had a ride home from someone else. I think it is highly plausable that his father was out, mom was away after all. If their household works like many others, when mom is away things are even more leniant.
On the chance he wasnt there, maybe he actually knew his son was going out to meet this girl and let him. Therefore knowing more then he is telling. Then is could have been more of a "Ok go out, I will pick you up outside the hotel at X time". He then could have asked his son as any parent would how it went. Joran could have said not so good, something bad happened. Anything like this, and you have his father knowing more and holding out information. JMO

[maritzka]

maritzka, VERY interesting insights and I appreciate you taking the time to share all that with us!  I've always had an interest in behavioral science so this case intriques me.  Your analysis is great!

TY georgiablues.  Lemondrop this post  from Dutch Lady was on the Reihl MB.  Everytime I read one of her posts it stays with me.  Not that I believe she is right about everything she says, but she sure causes one to stop and think.

[sandy]

my comments didn't seem to be attached to Cancon's post - I speculated that Steve Croes came before PVDS in a court case and thus PVDS knew his job discription and realized he could potentially assist with the disposal of evidence, whatever.

[Compananzi]

I am a behavioural profiler who has and is tracing five missing persons, and in the past with language codes found the keys in television interviews of persons. These relayed to authorities may have, and were found to be accurate in the persons having these set patterns in conflict to the words stated.

In the case of Joran Van Der Sloot and what has been written. The following is revealed.

Joran Van Der Sloot at an age before 17, made a tape of a 14 year old girl being gang raped on the island with other members of this 'club on the island - that island was Aruba. The circulation is unknown, and not known if free circulation via his internet site, or the site of the internet cafe. Investigative agencies have a copy of those and that edition one would suppose, and the name of the victim.

Joran Van Der Sloot is credited with having anger management therapy. He is quoted by mothers as being a bully. He shows little respect for those lesser than him in size, parental wealth/status and more academic progress. He is not an 'arts' person, but a game player. His adrenalin high is on winning, and competative sports. He has to win, and having the parentage he has he is set to win at any cost. His money for gambling in casino's therefore is from 'where'?

His 'friends' on weblogs say he had sold the film of the gang rape, not given it. This if true is a crime, and one that if the parents knew is a crime he can be charged with as the hardcopy is on the drive of his computer, but more likely the internet cafe computer as parents can 'look down' at email messages on their computer as can police. Erased messages also can be taken by internet security consultants and also photographs.

Joran Van Der Sloot, his age is nearer to 18 as he says he is a LEO. So he will be 18 soon.Most of his male friends seem older than him, and not a racial bias. He has older friends with the same assets and lifestyle. His webpage shows many spelling errors as in ARNHEM, and wonder of his lucidity in making this page. Common words in neurological function of language can be affected by Wernicke-Korsakoffe confabulation, that is half truth/half fiction. Something that is prevalent in most deviants and sadists found who have personality disorders. It is also a condition in severe alcohol ingestion over time, and of course stroke, brain injury persons in the non alcoholic kind.

Joran Van Der Sloot's home page is his identity. The pages of the photos selected as his own cognitive state show how he wants to be seen. The devils horns and bar behind are scenes above his own age of 17 and status those he wishes to impress. These are girls, and he has to impress those older than him, not younger. Therefore in behavioural traits he is being narcissistic, egotistical, AOD and other drugs dependant in some form, and has to be central to all images of him as the 'sensation seeker' in his own mind. I wonder then of the phenomena of 'folie a deux' as in more than one as Master and apprentice, and if one is ellevated past this?

In the homepages in Holland it is said they think he is being framed. Rubbish, serial killers who have been sent the image of Joran with the neckstrap round the puny boys neck will comment if allowed on the mind of the person doing this. But without that reply I am saying that the photograph shows in body language his full frame as covering the photo and his shirt chosen for its association and his neural firing of AOD pupil reaction. The boy in this is acutely victimised shown by the eyes screwed up, palour and side view as sadism is shown, not playful sex bondage. He exhibits strangulation signs. Of all else, Joran shows no gay attributes, this shown is a victim, not a play act. The facial expression and loss of shirt expose the punyness and lack of identity in contrast to Joran's.

This person will and can be a witness, and I would speculate is from a none skilled, low socio economic family where he takes his bullying tendancies and anger pool from.

I would say abandonment rage is a symptom he displays and he has a rage in the home that is known as outbursts. He engages with his dad, and tests him to the limits. His mother is the least aggressive and passive of the whole lot. She is the calmer of the unit. Joran's own statements as to Natalee have been dissociative. He has sought to distance as has his father from the outside media. Natalee's parents on speaking to the father in the early days may as reported have found him to be condescending, arrogant - as stated and above the law. He is however a trainee judge on the island. The judge in the case is an impartial highly qualified judge who is from another island. He is above Joran's father and most people on the island. He will use behavioral assessments, medical records, and all past behaviour to form an opinion on what Joran and the family have as issues on deviant behaviour already exhibited.

Locals are invaluable in message boards as both devils advocate and as insights into the island and of the person in both supporting and non supporting roles to a behavioural profiler.

The issue of the lighthouse as distancing, there is one other near the International School at the extreme south of the Island.

I do not think this was an impromtu event, due to the fight with the lads of Natalees school and the planning element of cognitive minds in three predators shown to be so by locals on the island and his mode of humiliating girls in groups. He is most likely to have taken her in equal matches of power between the two brothers using the safety key of his fathers position. This is a tool for his authority and credibility.

I have to assume to implicate the guards at her hotel he had to have passed in the car and seen this walkie talkie at some time, or that evening to be able to finger these as suspects to allow his release and those of the other two. Hence he, or the two brothers passed that hotel around that time. I would therefore say for the plan to work, if she is dead, she will have been there in some construction area site to make this stick.

In later retractions and distancing she is now said to be in a lighthouse, which one? Why this lead to the extreme North, she is then said to be on a beach, all of which is past her hotel. She is said to be left on that or a beach with Joran. No it does not cognitively fit. They were all together for some period of time, what time we do not know. It is therefore imperative that the findings are in secret from media in order for the search of what looks like her remains to happen, or cloths/DNA. If she is alive, the reward will allow that person to post on messages that will lead to her finding, for she is still on the land on the island. Not in my view off the island, in the sea, and would look inland as behavioural environmental psychology at the familiarity of the suspects and easy access in a car. My professional insights follow this process.

Posted by: Dutchlady | June 21, 2005 05:35 AM

Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.

[Gerben aka Pays Bas]

A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?

No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.

[sandy]

Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.

[cancon]

my comments didn't seem to be attached to Cancon's post - I speculated that Steve Croes came before PVDS in a court case and thus PVDS knew his job discription and realized he could potentially assist with the disposal of evidence, whatever.

the question is though if Croes wasn't a friend of Joran but Deepak why would Croes put himself out for Joran and his old man, which is where my theory is weak, Croes might put himself out for Deepak but even then, it doesn't like Croes and Deepak were bosom buddies either? the only thing we know is that Croes corroborated the false alibi, he told police he saw the boys dropping Nat off at the Holiday Inn

I wonder sometimes if Croes wasn't in the vicinity of that beach and got dragged into this somehow if he wasn't directly involved in the first place

I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity

[tkubi7]

Fox news update...interview (didn't catch the name) states PVDS WAS followed for some days prior to arrest.

[cancon]

A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?

No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.

no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum

[cancon]

Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.

oh dear, even Brad Pitt is way too old to play Joran, think one of the OC actors,

now I can see Gary Oldman playing the father

[Gerben aka Pays Bas]

A question for people who know law - does this ring any bells?

I believe that I have read that, in some places, it could be considered "premeditated" murder if you have a reasonable expectation that your neglect could cause someone to die and, yet, you do nothing.

For example, if you leave the scene of an accident where an injured person is without reporting it and the person dies of an injury as a result of this.

So in our case, Natalee is in a drug-induced coma, both Joran and his father are aware of this, and yet neither get her medical help and she dies.

Could this then be considered "premeditated" murder?

No. Prosecution would have a hard time proving that abandoment is murder. They can however demand jailtime up to nine years for abandonment of a person in need of help.

no it would be criminally negligent homicide at best and that presumes they have that offence in Aruba

it would normally be a manslaughter charge in that kind of case at maximum

No not manslaughter, abandoment is specifically covered in dutch law (art.255)

[momto5]

Hollywood Blockbuster - I have been thinking book deal since the beginning but when Greta got the 2 families together I added a zero to the price and with Dad's involvement - Brad Pitt in platforms is my pick for JVDS - it is unbelievably fertile ground - decapitation, a little artistic license never hurt - rainbow coloured houses owned by drug addled illegit son of - it goes on and on.

oh dear, even Brad Pitt is way too old to play Joran, think one of the OC actors,

now I can see Gary Oldman playing the father

Paul Walker from the fast and the furious might do well too for Joran.

[sandy]

[I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity[/quote]

I agree it is a difficult connection to make - but I bring in something that has bothered me - the alleged break in at the Fisherman's Hut - why was that not reported 2 weeks ago - that surfaced very recently - at least in our discussions - was Steve in one of the huts when Dad and Joran were freaking out on the beach over Natalee's comatose / deceased body.

[friend of monkeys]

Nice work Sobelle...

key words here might be import/export business...

import/export businesses are sometimes just that, but sometimes a lot more is involved ....

the below link was posted a long time ago on the theory & speculation page but it may be of value to all the newcomers and especially with its context here...

http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm

"A magnificent washing-machine is sold here, its trademark is Aruba. The machine is an Aruban-Colombian product, its model called Cartel. The brand is well-known for its good performance in the United States and Europe. It is recommended by former ministers, members of Parliament, owners of casinos, supermarkets, cosmetics manufacturers and importers of cars and batteries. The washing-machine fits everybody who has become inexplicably rich from one day to another."
                        -Elio Nicolaas, former minister & police officer

that is interesting th hear vfrom Eloi Nicolaas...anyone know how Elio N.
is historically tied into the town of SAN NICOLAAS??

[Curiosity]

okay, one last amendment to my theory

sounds like Mr. VDS was at the Holiday Inn Casino on the night of May 29th

of course we know Joran left the Holiday Inn Casino and ended up at C & Cs -

now let's assume the Kalpoe brothers dropped off Joran and Natalee at the beach near the Marriott which now seems to be the story they are all singing now

assume something bad happens and Joran panics

Joran has a cell phone, he knows Dad is gambling just up the road, for all we know Dad moved to the Marriott casino and was even closer by

now if Dad was in either of those casinos he'd been on their videotape wouldn't he

hmmmmmmm

I must have missed something in my readings. Do we have proof that Joren's dad was at a casino that night?? If so could someone post a news link? Thanks.

[iquitos]

compananzi,  thanks for putting the above delusional dutch woman into perspective?   might be right on some points but no motive for murder.

[cancon]

oh I just remembered, some smart posters at this forum also noted there was a special concert or festival going on in the area of the Holiday Inn and all the security guards were dressed in black

now again, if Joran's father is out partying in this vicinity instead of at home he would have seen all the security guards dressed in black, and indeed even the boys would have noticed all the security guards in black, so why not implicate a security guard  or guards dressed in black when you know the vicinity was crawling with guards dressed in black or in fact Joran may have seen a few of these guys near the Marriott, when they were off duty

how convenient, you have hundreds of potential suspects, then, perhaps it was by sheer accident they picked up John and Jones or maybe that was because John has been seen at the Holiday Inn that night and they knew Jones was his best buddy and trolled for chicks together

perhaps the old man VDS presumed it would take days to question all these security guards.......

[gaijin]

My God people. 7:40 in the mgn here ..and there are already twenty pages to go through......
Good mgn everyone.