RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning

[mojo]

Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.

thank you, Companazi. i'm relieved to hear it's not just me!  

[cancon]

[I mean if someone calls you up in the middle of the night to help dispose of a body, I don't think you'd do it for many people, even if you were a criminal type, because of the risk,  unless they paid him some big money or they had some blackmail dirt on him.....was there a pending legal case and the father agreed to get it fixed somehow? still sounds too sophisticated for all one night's activity

I agree it is a difficult connection to make - but I bring in something that has bothered me - the alleged break in at the Fisherman's Hut - why was that not reported 2 weeks ago - that surfaced very recently - at least in our discussions - was Steve in one of the huts when Dad and Joran were freaking out on the beach over Natalee's comatose / deceased body.[/quote]

the only other possibility of course is that Steve was involved more deeply in which case he had a personal stake in dumping the body

[sandy]

To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something

[friend of monkeys]

compananzi,  thanks for putting the above delusional dutch woman into perspective?   might be right on some points but no motive for murder.

morning IQ---
didn't you post yesterday that
lorenzoes last name was Frankie???

[mojo]

it must be more and more difficult to say that she believes natalee is alive...as much as she must want to believe it.  

[cancon]

To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something

no she was on Larry King Live and Geraldo interviewed her on the Factor, insisted her daughter was kidnapped and still on the island

she wasn't on Greta's show, she focused on Mrs. Kalpoe and Mrs. VDS

[mojo]

i hope she's right -- i stand corrected!  

[cancon]

well ciao kids, I think I've done some pretty good brainstorming here, putting some pieces together here now that we know the father is a suspect, discuss amongst yourselves

[maritzka]

Well I just love it to wake up and read heavy dose of BS.  First of I think none of us were there, and unless your an interrogator as well all this is speculative as most of the comments here.  I too have gone from one end to the other in finding motives.  Secondly, BH is calling the shots.... I think when it comes to Aruba Tourism, the genuine and sincere purpose of helping the victim families, the cautionary step not to accuse innocent party, the procedural way of working within the country laws, the pressure of the FBI, DEA, Dutch investigators, American media,  and the threat of being boycotted the one and only source of the island income... I believe the Aruba Gov't has really no choice.  Maybe all missing stories run similar, this one has all the twist that would make a Hollywood blockbuster.

thank you, Companazi. i'm relieved to hear it's not just me!  

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.

[clevfan1234]

To pick up on a point made late yesterday - Beth was not seen publicly yesterday - am I right? - is there any talk of her making an appearance today - someone was speculating she had been given bad news or something

She was interviewed tho, for the H and C's show.  I too did notice her lack of appearance of the television and wondered if she had been advised to limit what she says to the media now that PVDS has been arrested?

[sandy]

I guess everyone must be waiting for their coffee to kick in - it is a little quiet!

[Harley]

I have been lurking for quite a while and finally decided to post.  I have a theory and haven't seen it posted so I was wondering what all of you might think about it.

What if there is a gang of a dozen or so young men on the island that get their kicks out of drugging unsuspecting female tourists and raping them.  Not in a huge group, either individually or in small groups and then they all get together and brag about it.  That would explain the rumors of additional arrests.  In this particular case maybe what happened is that unfortunately Natalee died, Joren freaked and had his dad and/or friends help with hiding her.

[cancon]

just ignore the negative people,  we all got our theories, we all can constructively question each other's theories and try to clarify the facts and the rumours as best we can

[cancon]

I have been lurking for quite a while and finally decided to post.  I have a theory and haven't seen it posted so I was wondering what all of you might think about it.

What if there is a gang of a dozen or so young men on the island that get their kicks out of drugging unsuspecting female tourists and raping them.  Not in a huge group, either individually or in small groups and then they all get together and brag about it.  That would explain the rumors of additional arrests.  In this particular case maybe what happened is that unfortunately Natalee died, Joren freaked and had his dad and/or friends help with hiding her.

me bad, you are not necessarily farfetched, that would be the nasty scenario, and maybe not just young guys involved?

well it was interesting to note that when Greta asked each mother what the police seized from each house, videotapes, DVDs and cameras were part of the booty along with all the computers, no doubt looking for that infamous gang bang tape Geraldo spoke about one night and haven't since, now maybe Geraldo was told by the Aruban police to keep his mouth shut on that one, it could be central to their case

do we know if the internet cafe computers were seized as well?

[Curiosity]

well ciao kids, I think I've done some pretty good brainstorming here, putting some pieces together here now that we know the father is a suspect, discuss amongst yourselves

I did hear a lawyer on CNN state that he hoped they had reasonable evidence to arrest Joren's father on, because even if he's innocent, his arrest will ruin his career in Aruba forever.  

I also thought it was interesting that the various lawyers said that in Aruba, the father can't be held guilty for not disclosing anything Joren might have told him about a crime. He can be held accountable if he actually saw evidence of his son't involvement of a crime however.

[georgiablues]

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.

Maritzka, don't mind these guys.  For days people have been saying "would like to hear what a profiler has to say" - it was nice of you to share Dutchlady's post with us here.  Some of us like to look at all points of view.

[friend of monkeys]

just ignore the negative people,  we all got our theories, we all can constructively question each other's theories

Right Cancon....
What do you think of Elio Nicolaas and the great washing machine
Lorenzoes family may have run for Aua
 thru the caribbean with the help of Elio Nicolass(polis)?
and Paulus vds (Liason to dutch/NA) ...I have to go to work soon but
will continue to poder this looking bigger each day...

[LemonDrop]

I apologize for posting, promise not to post again, didn't mean to ruin your morning, just thought post had interesting points........They were right, newbies aren't welcome here.

I'm a newbie and I'm gonna make a stand and STICK around no matter what!  So stay with me and we'll be partners in crime.    Don't let anyone run you off!  Especially rude people....

[cancon]

however I would find it hard to believe you could do this often and get away with it, once maybe, but several times

though if you use the date rape drug, supposedly the women cannot remember or there may be some kinky chicks who enjoy that sort of thing?

that is why I am curious if this tape story is true because if it is, it is amazing these kids didn't get hauled into the station for this, maybe they did, maybe they got their knuckles rapped,  

I'd find it hard to believe someone wouldn't have squealed to a parent about this tape esp if it were your friend who was the victim?  because this tape was supposedly of an Aruban girl not a tourist

[Dublin]

just posting an article on a previous abduction in the islands that "went wrong" for the kidnappers. They'd kidnapped a child for ransome, but there is a kidnapping team that thwarted the kidnapping.

Another kidnapping in T&T
Less than 24 hours after police held four people including a woman in the abduction of a three-year-old toddler, authorities began probing another kidnapping in Trinidad and Tobago. This time it was a 71-year-old gas station owner. The Anti-Kidnapping Squad moved quickly and rescued the man based on a tip. He was found in a wooden shack unhurt.

The police said no ransom had been paid for the man, who was at his gas station in the capital Port of Spain when three men shoved him into a car and sped off. No one has been arrested in connection with the kidnapping.

http://www.hotcalaloo.com/july04.htm#Another%20kidnapping

This article summarizes the increase in kidnap for ransom in the carribean.
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2004/07/12/secret.htm

And if you think Aruba is safe, read the police records below, which include a kidnapping of a young mother of 4;

http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20engels/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20engels/2005/2005-06-nieuwsbronnen-engels/2005-00-nieuwsbronnen-engels-actueel.htm