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Author Topic: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning  (Read 233594 times)
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heavyheart
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« Reply #580 on: June 24, 2005, 10:43:27 AM »

Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Quote from: "heavyheart"
Quote from: "Rob"
Quote from: "Cherry6905"
I do not think Joran's Mother is sincere. I think she is sad for her own problems. She's not concerned about Natalee. After seeing her on AP saying this is now the media's fault. She is either in denial or spinning this for her family. Seeing Joran's Mom's indigant response tells me she's not happy, I think she believed her family was exempt to the law.

Jug (Natalee's step dad) was right, who tells their son to remain silent about being with someone who is missing (Joran's father)...unless he fear  ed Joraan may incriminate himself and father.

I have been happy to see Aruba appearing to do their job in investigating this case.  I pray they find Natalee, then maybe this will be settled. If Aruba shows they did their job I should think everyone would be very thankful and tourisim would return, possibly even increase.


i dont agree, mrs vd sloot looks just smart enough to be a art teacher....


Smart enough for finger painting maybe Smile


Heavyheart, what do think, are they trying to deflect attention off themselves?


This is my first theory/analysis post so go easy on me.

I think Natalee befriended Joran sometime during her stay on the island.  Who knows for sure when the met?  That day a couple days before, does it matter?  She is a trusting albeit a bit naïve young girl, but who wasn’t at 18?  She wants to see more of the island on her last night so she goes with him.  Knowing how 100 pound 5’4” women hold their liquor, she probably drank more than she realized and it hadn’t hit yet by the time she got in the car.  Did Joran put something in one of those last drinks?  It’s entirely possible but we don’t have any proof of that, yet.  

They leave and head for the lighthouse; sometime thereafter she is starting to feel the real affects of the liquor and wants to go home.  The brothers drop Natalee and Joran off at the beach, where Joran hopes he is going to seal the deal but it is a no go.  Natalee is way to far gone for any fun at this point.  

On another note…who the hell drives around their friend so he can try to score?  I’m all for the wingman operation but once they meet the girl, you have to cut them lose, at which point they are on their own.  

Back to the analysis…I don’t believe that Joran is a cold blooded killer, few 17 year olds are.  Those who are usually display many more problems then Joran seemed to have.  This is where total speculation begins…sometime while sitting/laying/whatever on the beach Natalee passes away.  From what, something slipped into her drink or, just too much to drink?  This happens every year at colleges across the country.  

What did Joran do at that point?  An innocent person would have called for help, not for daddy.  An innocent person would not have made up a story for others to follow.  I believe he called father Sloot to help him out of his mess.  PVDS then saw his and his son’s life going down the tubes and made a bad judgment decision.  Joran is definitely guilty of something, be it bad judgment or murder.  

The fact that the police have arrested father Sloot and the Croes characters is troubling and leads me to believe that something more sinister has taken place than a kid panicking because his date just passed out.  I can only hope that Croes was arrested because he lied to the police.  This may just be my own wishful thinking but I hate to think he or anyone else had anything to do with her death.

Going forward…I think the father will break in much less time than Joran.  At 17 you’re invincible, nothing can hurt you.  At 53, you have a lot more to lose and life has taught you, you’re anything but invincible.  

Only a few know exactly what happened that night.  

I can only pray everything I have said here is wrong and she is alive somewhere.  I have to admit I’m holding out some hope.  I can’t help but watch BHT and believe she knows something more than I/we do, that her mother’s intuition is correct.  I also hope that the police know a lot more than we do.
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iquitos
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« Reply #581 on: June 24, 2005, 10:43:33 AM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "iquitos"
does anybody have anything on this search of a boat at bucuti yacht club.  this is a monkey loose end.   loose ends are a no banana.  

http://img75.echo.cx/img75/5898/200506141120335bi.jpg

Do you know the date of this article?


do not, been around a while, from early in the case  some link it to lorenzo
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #582 on: June 24, 2005, 10:44:06 AM »

Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Someone just mentioned Greta's possible personal involvement and friendship with Beth Twitty.  If that happens in a big way, it can prevent Greta from covering this story in a fair manner.  I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe she's done that so far.  Greta is a professional, through and through.  Unlike Geraldo who gushes with anyone he's interviewing.  What a knucklehead. She's interviewed all four of the suspect's families to give us an idea of their character,etc.

She's been top rate.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #583 on: June 24, 2005, 10:44:17 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Yes, your point is well taken.  

I don't see anything wrong with this...at least in this situation...if it was a meeting between the kids, that's a different story...however, both families are adults and lawyered-up...and he's a judge!!!  Or, faux judge...whatever!  They must be comfortable with doing all this talking on both sides.  We all know in this country NO lawyer would allow even a smidgeon of talking...guilty or innocent.

So she led Beth Twitty to the Van Der Sloot's home?  Not a big deal, given Beth had already been there.  And her interviews and questions are typical journalistic fare.

I think Greta has done an outstanding job covering this story.  She is one of the few out there or on the Internet that has and continues to give us truthful, factual news.


No problem with breaking the news but what agenda is being pushed?  The Mansur family is know for money laudering and smuggling.  If Greta is unaware of this, from her FBI informants then .. well I guess one story before the other...

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100
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Rob
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« Reply #584 on: June 24, 2005, 10:46:23 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Someone just mentioned Greta's possible personal involvement and friendship with Beth Twitty.  If that happens in a big way, it can prevent Greta from covering this story in a fair manner.  I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe she's done that so far.  Greta is a professional, through and through.  Unlike Geraldo who gushes with anyone he's interviewing.  What a knucklehead. She's interviewed all four of the suspect's families to give us an idea of their character,etc.

She's been top rate.


and whoerldo, almost got a shit load of marines killes by tell everyone their coordinates... WHAT A JACKAZZ!
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #585 on: June 24, 2005, 10:47:54 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote from: "mojo"
Gerben, i have a question for you - a bit muddled perhaps but here goes:

if there is no body or forensic evidence
if there is nothing really in the way of emails, SMS or other communication that implicates any of the suspects
is there any likelihood that there will be no one charged, the suspects will all be released and the investigation will fail?

could we possibly looking at a scenario where this does not get resolved?


Yes, that is possible. That's why the police are quite intense, AVS called it even extreme, in their interrogations. A confession is a good thing to start from if you are the prosecutor in this case. However a confession is not needed in court if there is enough evidence that ties the suspect to the crime. No evidence and no confession basically means that you are innocent.
That's why maybe, and I am speculating here, Jorans father advised Joran not to say anything because a 'confession', even if he is innocent is basically enough te get you in jail.
There are failsaves for this in the dutch justicesystem, so any judge in this case will demand more from the prosecution than a confession.


Gerben:

Where ya been all my life?  LOL

Welcome.

Can you tell us more about the reported "premeditated murder" charge?  What does this mean?  Does it rule out an accidental death or overdose?
So glad you decided to join us...we have sooooo many questions.

Thanks
~Nancy


I've been here since june 17th and much earlier on the blog of Tom and Red. I have no lawdegree, I know parts of it because we need to have some basic knowledge in our proffesion. I have still hope that someone with a lawdegree in dutch criminal law will correct my answers, but no one has come up sofar.
About your question, thats why the JD not only accuses the suspects of murder, but also of manslaughter (doodslag) and death by kidnapping (ontvoering). That is, when this case goes to court they can choose ,if you will, how to indict the suspects based on the evidence they have gathered.

/edited for spelling
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heavyheart
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« Reply #586 on: June 24, 2005, 10:48:22 AM »

Quote from: "Cherry6905"
Yeah, but will they find Natalee?


We can only pray they will.
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iquitos
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« Reply #587 on: June 24, 2005, 10:51:07 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Quote from: "LouLou"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Okay.... must bring this up

Why the hell would police takes CD's and mp3 players in a search?

 Surprised  Surprised  Surprised  Rolling Eyes


the cds might be data.  Burned CDs.  Even the porno cd he made.

The moms stated they were music lol I just found it odd but everything is odd!!

Which leads me to my next weirdness outbreak...

::ducking:: I am curious about the report of Jug taking out insurance (not saying he is involved BTW). I am curious because there a several articles about kidnapping people and companies now offer kidnapping insurance... did anyone know that? I had never heard of such an insurance!


In all common sense, I would think that once a person has been missing a certain length of time, the insurance would cover as if the missing person was deceased. But hell, I am just speculating. Who know's what the hell these insurance companys cover anymore, or should i say DON'T COVER?
Edit to add...
I think there has to be a body to for any insurance claim
Not sure if this type of insurance is ligit cali
 

FYI mr holloway is an insurance agent  j
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Yellow Ribbon
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« Reply #588 on: June 24, 2005, 10:51:34 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"


Iquitos,

What a great article. Thanks for posting it. Everybody here should read this.
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BlueKyGirl
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« Reply #589 on: June 24, 2005, 10:52:42 AM »

Quote from: "Yellow Ribbon"
Quote from: "iquitos"


Iquitos,

What a great article. Thanks for posting it. Everybody here should read this.


I know--it really gives an insight into Natalee's personality. She sounds like such an adorable girl. Thanks for posting!
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iquitos
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« Reply #590 on: June 24, 2005, 10:53:50 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "sandy"
I do now know but what do you all think of sensationalist reporter becoming part of the story?    I have a little trouble with that.  

Jeez! For the last few days I have mentioned this on a number occaisions -There is something very inappropriate about greta's involvement - not that I am against her breaking the case but using the 'journalist' MO to facilitate a meeting of the 2 families - perhaps taping it - by her own admission being debriefed after - she has become part of the story - maybe this is the future of journalism - if it isn't already the case - but she has surely taken this to new heights.


Yes, your point is well taken.  

I don't see anything wrong with this...at least in this situation...if it was a meeting between the kids, that's a different story...however, both families are adults and lawyered-up...and he's a judge!!!  Or, faux judge...whatever!  They must be comfortable with doing all this talking on both sides.  We all know in this country NO lawyer would allow even a smidgeon of talking...guilty or innocent.

So she led Beth Twitty to the Van Der Sloot's home?  Not a big deal, given Beth had already been there.  And her interviews and questions are typical journalistic fare.

I think Greta has done an outstanding job covering this story.  She is one of the few out there or on the Internet that has and continues to give us truthful, factual news.


No problem with breaking the news but what agenda is being pushed?  The Mansur family is know for money laudering and smuggling.  If Greta is unaware of this, from her FBI informants then .. well I guess one story before the other...

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=355&sid=100


maybe mansur is a fellow scientologist?  sorry for posting this
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mojo
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« Reply #591 on: June 24, 2005, 10:56:36 AM »

thanks for posting that Compananzi - that's why local knowledge cannot be underestimated.  i find it hard to believe that if there was a history on any of these suspects that it would have remained under the radar on a place as small as Aruba.
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The state of the condition insults my intuition
mojo
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« Reply #592 on: June 24, 2005, 10:57:31 AM »

iquitos you are too much - i forgot ole greta was one of ron's.  Laughing
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The state of the condition insults my intuition
Twelve Monkeys
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« Reply #593 on: June 24, 2005, 10:57:55 AM »

From Caribbean Girl on Riehl World Message board.


I live in the Caribbean as an Expat. The van der Sloots are Expats living in Aruba. The attitude of people coming from mainland countries to island nations to live is the key here. Why do they leave family and friends behind to move so far away? Well the obvious is the weather but there is more to the story. There is opportunity for mediocre people to make something of themselves. Expats also tend to have an arrogance about them, a false sense of superiority. They view themselves as the "smart, sophiticated" people coming from the big country to help the poor stupid island people.

The comment Anita VDS made about Paul giving 15 years of service to the island yada yada yada.... I have heard that beofre from Expats who think their (you know what) doesn't stink. They act like they have scaified so much to to come there and help the "poor" people of the island when in fact they have have no sense of altrsism at all they have only been their to line their pockets. More than likely PVDS would never have been able to reach the professional level he has in Aruba back home in Holland. If you compare his abilities to the main stream back home he wouldn't measure up. But in the Caribbean he feel he is a big shot. That is why their son, raised as an Expat, has the arrogant attitude that he does.

Now all that said when trouble occured their "superior" attitude made them belive they could just cover up the mess and use their "influence" to pressure the locals, which is what was happening the first week. They throught the stupid locals would never figure it out.

I am sure since Anita was away, Paul was having himself some fun and went out with Joran. Expat men are notorious for running around and boozing while their wives go on the long trips back home to visit family or on on shopping trips to the USA (can't buy that much on a small island and the US isn't that far away).

I live this life so I know. I recognize it for what it is. I hope they pay for all their sins which are many, and may the Aruban people rid themselves of this vermen. Other Expats be on notice that you ned to change your attitude.

Posted by: caribbean girl | June 24, 2005 09:06 AM
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12 Monkeys
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« Reply #594 on: June 24, 2005, 10:58:31 AM »

Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... Sad
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PoorPaulaNNJ
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« Reply #595 on: June 24, 2005, 11:01:12 AM »

I saw the CNN story yesterday on ScaredMonkeys. The two reporters seemed so genuinely excited about this blog that I am positive they are monkeys too, probably here all day and night, except when CNN cuts to them for reporting. At that point, I think they just minimize their SM page, talk about something else, then when the cameras cut away to something else, they bring SM back up and then both women begin frantically reading pages of SM posts to catch up. LOL
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.
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iquitos
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« Reply #596 on: June 24, 2005, 11:02:30 AM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Suspect was in pushing match
Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."
 

this is from evening reading  ... and there is an interview at a fund raising barbecue where a kid named beau tells how he broke it up.  this needs to go in the timeline, paused outside bar to have a scuffle with natalees friend before leaving with natalee.   then deepak said they stopped them on the road and natalee said she wanted to proceed with them instead of joining her mb friends aruba yahoo!
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BlueKyGirl
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« Reply #597 on: June 24, 2005, 11:02:35 AM »

Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
I saw the CNN story yesterday on ScaredMonkeys. The two reporters seemed so genuinely excited about this blog that I am positive they are monkeys too, probably here all day and night, except when CNN cuts to them for reporting. At that point, I think they just minimize their SM page, talk about something else, then when the cameras cut away to something else, they bring SM back up and then both women begin frantically reading pages of SM posts to catch up. LOL
No matter where you are or what your occupation, all monkeys are hooked, and lovingly face the same challenges. Thank God for Scared Monkeys.


Haha--you're probably right! Love the avatar, by the way!
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wwizard
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« Reply #598 on: June 24, 2005, 11:06:06 AM »

Quote from: "Just Wunderin'"
Don't want to rattle any cages, but I really take exception to BHT saying that NH would never go with these fellows willingly, that she was kidnapped.  BHT needs to wake up and smell the roses.  She cannot bring herself to admit that "her" daughter would ever drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or act in any manner consistent with most teenage behavior.  Why do you think the other kids aren't talking.  They all went down there to get blasted and get laid!  BHT is a typical southern "lady", whose personal reputation with regard to her family and home are really more important than her concern for her missing daughter.  At one point she made the comment, "I am through protecting myself."  What is that suppose to mean?....protect her reputation, that is what.  She is VERY concerned about what her neighbors and others in her community think of HER.  Take note of her reaction when one of the interviewing reporters tries to broach the subject of Natalee going with the boys, being drunk, having sex; she always brushes that aside and says something to the effect that she doesn't want to dwell on the past, she just wants to find Natalee.  I suspect Natalee did get drunk and did have sex and did, possibly, do some drugs (knowingly or not).  My theory is that she did all this with JVDS and possibly the K brothers and maybe even the D.J. also and then she decided to take a swim in the ocean and just kept on swimming, knowing that her classmates were aware of her behavior and her personal shame and knowing the shame her mother would experience as a result of her doing all these things.  I expect that BTH put so much pressure on her while she was in school and in her community that she just didn't care anymore.  They keep saying that she was so perfect, i.e., 4.0 average, gonna be a doctor, full academic scholarship, never did anything wrong, etc., etc., etc.  Come on people, we have all known parents who push their kids to the end of their rope and then that rope snaps.  In the photos of NH, her eyes are sad.  And, I am now sad for her.

And, just for the record, before anyone goes off on me.  I am a southern woman, a mother of three grown children (2 boys, 1 girl)--none of whom are perfect by a long shot.  Mine would look me in the eye and lie to me and I know that most mothers will admit the same thing.  We don't really know our kids--just as our kids never really know us.

I suspect that JVDS, the K brothers, the DJ and PVDS are all aware of what happened.... and the problem is that they did nothing to help her, they just took advantage of her condition and then let her swim away......... Sad


I am from the south also and I agree with you. Some won't want to hear it though. The truth can sting.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #599 on: June 24, 2005, 11:06:32 AM »

Anybody know what time the TX group is arriving?  Earlier, or very late last night, there was discussion about them going to the VDS property to check out that "smelly pond".  

It sure seems like the police should have done that by now....and if they haven't, I'm pretty sure the TX group is not going to be allowed on private property.

What time is it in Aruba??
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