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Author Topic: RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning  (Read 233249 times)
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Red
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« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2005, 12:52:19 AM »

I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation
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luna
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« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2005, 12:53:49 AM »

iquitos...thanks for your reply.

The kidnapping was implied/sem-stated by BHT in her interview tonight (with Greta?  not sure).

She mentioned that there would be others arrested/detained and the interviewer said, "Would that be the kidnappers?"  and she said yes.

Also, another rumor is making the rounds that the Ts posted a ransom and that's why BHT has been upbeat yesterday and today.

More speculation...

PS...I enjoy your posts...
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doman4
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« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2005, 12:54:05 AM »

Quote from: "bendex"
The detainment of paul van der sloot is headline news on the dutch newspapers they quote judge of suspect suspected of murder

source www.telgraaf.nl   This is the translation:
        24 June 2005 03.11 judges on Aruba suspected the Dutch judge who on Aruba is stuck because of the disappearance of American scholiere of assassination ORANJESTAD, are now a verdachte in the matter. The 53 person whose birthday it is man is accused of the medeplegen of assassination, doodslag or removal with the death to consequence. The judge was taken up yesterday. He is the father of the 17 person whose birthday it is boy who already concerning the vermissing of the 18 person whose birthday it is Natalee Holloway vastzat. Others also three become suspicious. Holloway disappeared three weeks suffered after schoolreisje. The police force thinks that she has been killed. So far no track of the scholiere has been found.  www.nos.nl
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waitingtoknow
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« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2005, 12:54:14 AM »

Hi all...(been lurking trying to catch up)

I feel like I am on a rollercoaster ride.....I have always had this deep gut feeling that Natalee is alive.  Especially when the Diaria (sp?) guy was on the phone with FOX and said they were following ppl who they felt were involved....then...not another word...Then tonight, the Diaria (not sure if it was the same guy) did not seem as enthusiastic about the outcome...really confused me.

But, then, I saw Beth in her interview....I am not by any means an expert on behavior or body language...but I would like to think that I know a little (Bachelors in Psychology....police officer).  To me, she seemed like she was hoping....speculating...but then, when she started talking about a kidnapping and about Natalee being alive and on the island...she changed...she looked straight into his eyes and said YES, ON THE ISLAND ...(not exact words I'm sure)...with such gumption!  Well, that just did it for me...I even felt my eyes starting to tear up...whew...

Then, when I got online, I went straight to Riehlworldview and saw the post about the ransom....have my doubts about it...but there are so many things that make you wonder.....RUMORS????  We don't know...but it is possible....somebody seeing her being taken away against her will...this ransom story...the diaria story (maybe no mention because it would put Natalee in danger)..numerous other rumors...possibilities.

I really have no point to this post...basically, just sharing my thoughts...

I just really feel that she is alive....I think we will know within the next few days....I have a good feeling about this Equusearch group from Texas!! Smile


How do they expect us to figure out the puzzle when they keep changing the picture on the box???  Confused
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Ocicat
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« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2005, 12:54:28 AM »

Quote from: "Red"


CROES:  so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation

Pre-meditated? So the accidentally died from drugs theory is not their main working theory?
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KKM
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« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2005, 12:55:20 AM »

Quote from: "Juvenal"
Quote from: "KKM"
Messed up my last post.

I think this fool from Dan's page was just so excited that he thought he had "inside information" that he couldn't pass up the opportunity.

And here I was just bragging on the fact that there are very few rumors going around town.  Shame on me!


I agree, KKM. And this person supposedly got this information, what? Third hand or fourth hand?
I guess so.  And now look what he's gone and done to both the Mayor and the poor tailor's reputations.
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inthepacific
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« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2005, 12:55:29 AM »

Quote from: "Red"
I can't believe I actually watched Larry King tonight. However, this little tid bit came out of the mouth of Mariane Croes with the attorney general's office in Aruba:

CROES: At this point the general description is that they are suspected of being involved in the disappearance of Ms. Holloway. That’s the general description. But because when we arrest somebody, you have to have a reasonable suspicion of specific crimes, so at this point all the suspects are arrested on the first crime of premeditated murder.

KING: So that is — is that a charge?

CROES: At this point it is only a reasonable suspicion. The definite accusation and in American system “charge” will be made when the investigation is finished. And the prosecutor has reviewed all of the evidence pertaining to this investigation


I noticed that too Red, the words PREMEDITATED MURDER stood out to me significantly. Did she let something go there? Or is this just another language barrier that may prove to be nothing?
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medleyrelay
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« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2005, 12:57:12 AM »

Why though if Beth thinks this is a kidnapping - would they bother with the Texas gang - they cannot find someone held in a basement for a kidnapping???
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BlueBob
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« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2005, 12:58:14 AM »

Reply to inthepacific -
She is strong because of two things - first her faith in God - second, she is running as hard as she can for her daughter.  Running that hard precludes breaking down.  If you have ever been in a life/death situation, it would  be easier to understand.  When you don't have strength on your own, God strengthens you. . .that is what faith is. . .that is what faith does.  If you have ever worked 100& on a project, it is similar. . .you work and work and work, and nothing else matters.  You just don't look back.

But how long she can go in full speed, I don't know.  It will take a toll on her.  Our prayers help.
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Ocicat
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« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2005, 01:00:05 AM »

Goodnight all. I hope this "premeditated murder" thing is just a passing phase. It is interesting to speculate and try to trail the facts, but the reality is so heartbreaking. I really still hold out for her reunion with her family. I think that's what keeps me on, as unlikely as that is.
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Scarlett
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« Reply #70 on: June 24, 2005, 01:01:59 AM »

Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)
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iquitos
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« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2005, 01:02:55 AM »

ORANJESTAD De Nederlandse rechter die op Aruba vastzit wegens de verdwijning van een Amerikaanse scholiere, is nu een verdachte in de zaak. De 53-jarige man wordt beschuldigd van het medeplegen van moord, doodslag of ontvoering met de dood tot gevolg.

De rechter werd gisteren opgepakt. Hij is de vader van de 17-jarige jongen die al in verband met de vermissing van de 18-jarige Natalee Holloway vastzit. Ook drie anderen worden verdacht.

Holloway verdween drie weken geleden na een schoolreisje. De politie denkt dat zij is omgebracht. Tot nu toe is er geen spoor van de scholiere gevonden.  

oranjestad-  the dutch judge who is locked up in aruba because of the disappearance of the american student is now a suspect in the case.  the 53 year old man is accused of acessory to murder, manslaughter, and kidnapping with death as a consequence.  

The judge was picked yesterday.  he is the father of the 17 year old boy who is already sitting fast in connection with the missing (disappearance) of the 18 year natalee holloway.  three others are also suspected.  

Holloway disappeared three weeks ago after (should be on) a school trip.  the police think that she was killed.  up until now there is no trace found of the student.  

here is the link in case soembody (nancy) comes back and says it never existed.  http://www.nos.nl/nos/artikelen/2005/06/art0000B0060700.html
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2005, 01:03:49 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 Shocked


It's the first time she has looked exhausted..and she even said it was the first morning she wasn't sure if she could get out of bed. BUT, she's usually so articulate and and reliable in her comments...that's what made the kidnapping comments so shocking.  She very clearly states the "others" who she suspects will be arrested are also the same people who are keeping her on the island.

One thing I thought of is she's so firm on her belief Natalee's alive, she may have been trapped after she used the word kidnapping...meaning the three took Natalee...so where do you go from there?  If she thinks she's alive and also been taken by several, you gotta go the extra step of saying these people have her on the island alive.

Really don't know...it was a very different Beth Twitty interview IMO.
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inthepacific
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« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2005, 01:04:14 AM »

Quote from: "bluebob"
Reply to inthepacific -
She is strong because of two things - first her faith in God - second, she is running as hard as she can for her daughter.  Running that hard precludes breaking down.  If you have ever been in a life/death situation, it would  be easier to understand.  When you don't have strength on your own, God strengthens you. . .that is what faith is. . .that is what faith does.  If you have ever worked 100& on a project, it is similar. . .you work and work and work, and nothing else matters.  You just don't look back.

But how long she can go in full speed, I don't know.  It will take a toll on her.  Our prayers help.


Thanks for your reply bluebob, as I said, I am not a religious person so this could be, like you said, the strength that keeps her going without breaking down in front of camera's.

I commend her for her strenght, I don't think I could endure it as she has consecutively.

WOW, what a strong human she is.

As the religious folk say...God bless her and pray for a safe return of Natalee.
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waitingtoknow
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« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2005, 01:04:29 AM »

Quote from: "inthepacific"
Quote from: "chloe2"
Ocicat -- thanks, that was the one show I had not tried for the video.

I did watch it. I am baffled.

I think Beth Twitty looks abosolutely exhausted and at her wit's end. I did not hear her say that she had any facts to back up her claim that Natalee was kidnapped -- I heard her say often that she 'felt', 'knew', had 'intuition' but nothing that makes me believe she has real information.

Just my take on things - I hope I am misinterpreting, but to me she just looked like a desperate mother grasping at straws. (I really, really hope I'm wrong.)


Now, I don't want to piss anyone off, but I haven't seen that woman break since the get go...how can she be strong??? This is what I can't believe! Is it her religious faith that has kept her strong???

I am not a religious person so I can't understand her strength in all of this. She has held up tremendously ever since she arrived on Aruba. Someone help me understand this behaviour by Mrs. Hollaway/Twitty.

I watched her on CNN tonight, with a cameraman in the back of her car...she is driving around the island!!! She dropped a person off/or picked someone up at the airport there. Answered her cell phone, told her TUG, I love you...and all the while she seemed just too much together.

I'm not running her down, but I guess I don't understand the strength and courage she is showing in all of this....

 Shocked
Being a christian myself, and having experienced much...I can say that God gives so much strength in trying times to those that have faith.  My favorite verse...which I am sure Beth recites often is..."I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength, phil. 4:13".  (not a holy roller...but have experienced this strength myself....felt so weak...but those around me were in awe...like we are of Beth)
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Yellow Ribbon
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« Reply #75 on: June 24, 2005, 01:05:36 AM »

inthepacific,

Beth Twitty has impressed most everybody with her strength. She did break down at one or two press conferences. There were some pretty heartbreaking pictures of her a couple of weeks ago. She or her husband has also talked about how they have had plenty of very difficult moments.
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6prs'o'klompen
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« Reply #76 on: June 24, 2005, 01:05:37 AM »

Quote from: "Scarlett"
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


This sounds pretty logical to me... hmmm, interesting, so the colombian necktie was a warning to all three and PVS?
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One Happy Mitten
luna
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« Reply #77 on: June 24, 2005, 01:05:41 AM »

Scarlett....another potentially viable scenario!!

Even if it turns out to not be true....would make a good novel.

The part about whay arubagirl says makes it even more compelling.
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TG
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« Reply #78 on: June 24, 2005, 01:06:07 AM »

Quote from: "Scarlett"
If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

I think the beheading rumor ended up not being in Aruba.  It was in Aruba, Iraq from what I understand.
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iquitos
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« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2005, 01:06:41 AM »

Quote from: "Scarlett"
Hi Everybody,

I have been lurking for a while but just wanted to throw my thoughts into the mix.

JVDS did take Natalee to the beach, but saw something he wasn't supposed to see.  I'm thinking a drug drop or shippment.  The people that were there, including Steve Crose, know that they cannot let Natalee get away but they can't make the son of a judge disappear so easily.  They tell JVDS to keep his mouth shut or he would face a murder charge, and maybe more, like his family getting hurt.  JVDS emails Deepak to come get him then when he gets home tells Papa.  Papa knows these people because he is a judge and has knowledge of what goes on in the drug trade.  Papa tells JVDS to keep his mouth shut, he would take care of it.  I always thought it was funny that the two security guards were arrested so fast.  Did Papa mis-direct the investigation?  

Since JVDS also told Deepak now they all have to come up with an good story to cover themselves because they know they were the last people to be seen with Natalee.  

Papa is praying that JVDS, Deepak and Stashi can keep their mouths shut, but they are young, so the stories are starting to fray at the edges a little, just the cover story.  I don't think anyone that is currently under arrest is ever going to tell what really happened to Natalee because they have a much bigger fear than being in jail for 20 years.  If they talk, their families will end up like the man that was beheaded.

Remember when Arubagirl said this month was the "crappiest" one she has seen on the island.  Too much violence for this peaceful place, all because JVDS and Natalee  were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think JVDS gave Natalee drugs.  They both might have had a little too much to drink, but I really get the feeling they were just acting like a couple of teenagers who got in over their heads.

For what it's worth...just my 2 cents.

PS.  I'm not a teacher, but the mother of a teacher is almost as good.  (Social Studies, Phys Ed and football/basketball coach)


scarlet.  thank you for that.  very well developed and even a little plausible as things go here.
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