Lively Case Discussion #508 8/7 - 8/8/2006

[Mere]

oh, that was such a confusing post; sorry

No it isn't.....and I can be easily confused....the little bits of the time line are important....I just realized that CC's hunch was ...there was no "Dutch tourist" ... this was the scenerio of the local boys....that was CCs hunch....and that is what he acted on....and who was the boy he saw that night and rode around with....?

[Ono]

I still maintain that the crime happened at the Sloots that fateful night, even though the other crimes upon other tourist girls probably happened elsewhere, but that night, the coast was clear.

Reading about Joran having boxing matches/gloves in his quarters really jumped out....could he have punched Natalee in the face with these gloves in the scenario ??? This would answer the question as to what Deepak really meant in the backseat conversation when he said to the effect: .."if they see that s--t, you'll get fifteen years!"  He hit her in the face...

[Mere]

Speaking of CC...could he have access to the videos made with any of his phones...?  Have we asked metro that question in the past...?

[Kimmy53]

regarding Joran's psychiatric treatment -- so he lied to Greta; maybe that's why she questioned him 3 or 4 different ways on that subject.  Joran kept saying he never, ever had any sort of treatment, counseling, etc

and what about throwing a boy into a window (at school)?  Plus Anita stated that Joran had a problem with another kid, but that was worked out somehow.

why then did Greta say she was inclined to believe him?  Didn't she have the boys' statements by then?  You would think that she would have had them translated and knew he was lieing to her during that interview.

I don't get it ...

hence, my screen name change!!

for you newbies -- I was GretaRocks, but I just had to have it changed; couldn't do it anymore; was embarrassed to post!

[/b]

I thought that was you Windsor!  I didn't want to ask... Good to see you!!- still LOVE your little typing monkey!

[Smish]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

From my understanding,Charles Croes went to the beach and asked a few kids there about a car,Deepaks car.He described the car and the kids replied"Oh,That's Joran",then the kid(s)lead them to where Joran lives.I always found that odd because everyone claimed Joran didn't drive so why would Joran be associated with Deepak's car?Why didn't the kids say"oh,that's Deepak's car"?

[Anna]

.
Windsor,
I mean Beth knew Natalee left with somebody who was local because the car was not rental with the big muffler, etc.  She may not have had an actual name when she met CCroes.

Sorry for the confusion.  

.

[msmarple]

oh, that was such a confusing post; sorry

No it isn't.....and I can be easily confused....the little bits of the time line are important....I just realized that CC's hunch was ...there was no "Dutch tourist" ... this was the scenerio of the local boys....that was CCs hunch....and that is what he acted on....and who was the boy he saw that night and rode around with....?

MeMere - "we" know his name. I *think* it's Gabe something. He recognized DK's car in the VDS driveway. He memorized the plate #. (When the "Alabama Posse" went there later, the car was gone.)

But Croes, in the Greta interview, also mentioned that he had a kid with him, apparently from the start. We may know his name too; can't recall. (But we didn't know these names until just a few months ago ... )

That Vanity Fair article was considerably flawed, but I think it had some probable details we didn't have earlier.

Klaas must be living an actual life today ...   But she would know the names. I have them at home.

[Windsor]

.
Windsor,
I mean Beth knew Natalee left with somebody who was local because the car was not rental with the big muffler, etc.  She may not have had an actual name when she met CCroes.

Sorry for the confusion.  

.

did Beth know this before arriving on the island (meaning info from the MB kids)?

or did Beth get this info from the HI?

so, CC's "hunch" was that it must have been a local due to the description of Deepak's car?

and -- I believe the kid with CC was the airport employee; Rob knew his name

[Ono]

Well...one thing is surely clear from reading Deepak's June 10th statement:  Paulus really drilled it into Deepak's brain to say "I don't remember" to key questions.

Also, that IS an odd statement that Joran had almost "fallen INTO the water"....That sounds as though Joran is ABOVE the water ...what water? Sloot pool water?  Hanging - off - the - side - of - a - boat water ???  It's as though he means Joran is above whatever water he is talking about.

[msmarple]

Speaking of CC...could he have access to the videos made with any of his phones...?  Have we asked metro that question in the past...?

Metro I *think* stated that CC is basically a franchisee and would not be able, or have the equipment, to "listen in" ... the company is based in California(?) KLAAS!!??!! and THEY would be able to trace, listen in/watch, retrieve records, etc.

[Smish]

Windsor - thanks for bringing that email over from GretaWire. I sent it to David Grossman, one of the travel writers at USAToday ... we've been on his case; he commented that Aruba had had only 1 homicide in 20 years ...

Smish - hello; don't think we've met   . The dog story was true, per locals who were posting here last summer. Also the broken window thing, and fighting with his brother.

Joran was seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist for "anger management"  (I think Anita said that as well as the Arubans posting here. I don't remember which professional specialty.)

One of the Aruba posters said that she had heard, from a good source, that Joran's problems went far beyond killing dogs and the other things we had heard about. Anita was "in denial."

I also suspected that he had had probelms with underage driving, and possibly DUIs. (The driving age is 18.)

Incidentally, I happened on a site last night that indicated that vehicle accidents and fatalities are fairly high on Aruba. (Looking up homicide + Aruba for Mr. Grossman's perusal.)

Easy - I posted something for you at your thread in the lounge.

Hi MsMarple
I remember that interview that Anita did with Greta talking about Joran taking yoga classes,and Anita saying Joran asked her"but Mommy,why I have to go to yoga?"....Anita said he liked it after a while.I think the yoga classes may have been forced on him to try and keep him calm.
Thanks for the welcome

[Ono]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

From my understanding,Charles Croes went to the beach and asked a few kids there about a car,Deepaks car.He described the car and the kids replied"Oh,That's Joran",then the kid(s)lead them to where Joran lives.I always found that odd because everyone claimed Joran didn't drive so why would Joran be associated with Deepak's car?Why didn't the kids say"oh,that's Deepak's car"?

I've always wondered about that too.

[Windsor]

Ono -- or anyone?  can you direct me to where it states that Joran almost fell into the water?  What did I miss?

[Ono]

Windsor - thanks for bringing that email over from GretaWire. I sent it to David Grossman, one of the travel writers at USAToday ... we've been on his case; he commented that Aruba had had only 1 homicide in 20 years ...

Smish - hello; don't think we've met   . The dog story was true, per locals who were posting here last summer. Also the broken window thing, and fighting with his brother.

Joran was seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist for "anger management"  (I think Anita said that as well as the Arubans posting here. I don't remember which professional specialty.)

One of the Aruba posters said that she had heard, from a good source, that Joran's problems went far beyond killing dogs and the other things we had heard about. Anita was "in denial."

I also suspected that he had had probelms with underage driving, and possibly DUIs. (The driving age is 18.)

Incidentally, I happened on a site last night that indicated that vehicle accidents and fatalities are fairly high on Aruba. (Looking up homicide + Aruba for Mr. Grossman's perusal.)

Easy - I posted something for you at your thread in the lounge.

Hi MsMarple
I remember that interview that Anita did with Greta talking about Joran taking yoga classes,and Anita saying Joran asked her"but Mommy,why I have to go to yoga?"....Anita said he liked it after a while.I think the yoga classes may have been forced on him to try and keep him calm.
Thanks for the welcome

And that was probably in the third grade...

[msmarple]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

From my understanding,Charles Croes went to the beach and asked a few kids there about a car,Deepaks car.He described the car and the kids replied"Oh,That's Joran",then the kid(s)lead them to where Joran lives.I always found that odd because everyone claimed Joran didn't drive so why would Joran be associated with Deepak's car?Why didn't the kids say"oh,that's Deepak's car"?

Yes, Smish, that was always odd from the beginning, prompting somebody here to proclaim that DK was J's "ride bitch." (I don't think DK would have willingly let J drive his car.)

But it may be that something was edited within that dialog on the interview tape. It was OBVIOUS that much had been snipped. You can't really pick up on that from reading a transcript, but if you watch, it's very apparent.

[terryd270]

Ono -- or anyone?  can you direct me to where it states that Joran almost fell into the water?  What did I miss?

In the Deepak June 10th statement::

"To your question as to where the sand came from the day in question that I vacuumed the car, I can state the following. The sand came from Joran, because he had almost fallen into the water and after that he had sat down in my car with sand on his shorts and on his legs."

[Ono]

Ono -- or anyone?  can you direct me to where it states that Joran almost fell into the water?  What did I miss?

I took notes this morning as I read the statements...go back through Deepak's and I believe it is in there...I've gotta go get lunch...

[KatzHome]

...I'm not very good at the research stuff -- my computer isn't either

I just found the "Girls Are Weird" Mac font!!!  ::bounce!::  And I thought I wasn't any good at searching, either!  

[Windsor]

Ono -- or anyone?  can you direct me to where it states that Joran almost fell into the water?  What did I miss?

In the Deepak June 10th statement::

"To your question as to where the sand came from the day in question that I vacuumed the car, I can state the following. The sand came from Joran, because he had almost fallen into the water and after that he had sat down in my car with sand on his shorts and on his legs."

thanks, Terry; I totally missed that;

that is really strange ...

[Smish]

you know, whoever posed the question "why did CC ask locals who Joran was" is a really good question

can someone explain that?

had Beth already been to the HI to see the tapes?  at that point, they were looking for Nat on the tape, right? and probably saw Joran on tape; but how did they figure out Joran wasn't a Dutch tourist?

Good thoughts....why were the HTs looking for a local boy...?  If they had info from the MB kids, they should have been looking at the HI logs for the HI Dutch tourist and his father....or looking at the airport logs for the Dutch tourist and his father who were returning to Holland....what put them onto Joran as a local....did I forget how that happened?

Hi MeMere
I thought the HT's had went to the HI and viewed the casino tape,got an image of Joran and the casino people told them who he was?Didn't they look in the casino sign in book and saw his first name,Joran and last initial,V?