Lively Case Discussion #508 8/7 - 8/8/2006

[Anna]

[
Why is goon asking deepak to describe to polis such specific sexual activity...coupled with his own very specific description of the same events in his own statements?  

Why would deepak say this unless asked to do so?

It could very well be that Natalee was indeed virgin, and this is the explanation for physical activity which would have changed that.  Or would have been obvious to medical examiner...

This animates Anita's overly graphic desriptions to Beth and Greta during interview.  Are sloots attempting to explain away how a virgin is not a virgin if/when found?

Sure looks that way to me.

AS IF the girl (Natalee in this case) wouldn't notice a thing like that happening.  The elimination of intact hymen would feel the same regardless of instrumentation.  I guess Joran hasn't had much experience with girls who are actually conscious.    The conscious ones would tend to react very negatively I would think.

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[Tylergal]

What if the K2 were not with Joran after Goon picked up Natalee.  Suppose, just suppose that it was Freddy & Xander.  Suppose, just suppose that they had taken Joran and Natalee to another car.  Deepak could then "vacuum and clean" any evidence of Natalee in his car if there was no blood or vomitus.  Suppose, just suppose that Joran holds them beholden to him and his father for something else and they are involved in "voyeurism" more than actual contact with Natalee.  Suppose Joran made the statement about Deepak never having sex with a girl to tell us something, "he likes to watch."  Might it be that the K2 were used more than we know by these higher ups on the island, like the Sloots, who consider their social standing to be such that Anita could not imagine her son having vaginal penetration with a woman, only what she described because his little willie is too good to enter the house of a mouse trap.

[sb]

This animates Anita's overly graphic desriptions to Beth and Greta during interview.  Are sloots attempting to explain away how a virgin is not a virgin if/when found?

Sure looks that way to me.

Without going too far here, I would say that the examination would definitely show a difference between manual foreplay and intercourse(rape). I don't think Joran was thinking that way. In fact, that sounds to me like he was trying to differentiate between what he did and what had happened to her... almost  like he wants them to think that he JUST went that far, implying "other(s)" went farther and he knew that. Or that he was one of many, and knew that too.

This was to make people think HE wasn't the one who assaulted her, a notion which DNA would shoot down instantly.

[Anna]

[Yes, physically lost. Thanks again. I am trying to figure out if Sander had anything incriminating (messages,pics,vids) on his phone and if the act of destroying the phone would successfully remove any chance of ALE retrieving that info.

IGS,

Actually we have to wonder why ALE was looking for Sander's phone in the first place.  They must have been for otherwise I don't think we would know it was missing.

Just to cut to the chase, I believe they know photos or short vid was sent out just exactly as it was in the recent situation of the sixteen years old girl reported on the front page of Jossy's newspaper.  CCroes knew about this last spring when he made his cryptic post on the travel forum about bad things going on on the island that needed to be stopped, etc.

They knew to retrieve all those PIMP phones to ever round up the evidence, so L'il Sander either ditched his or is being very coy and hid it to save something??  Maybe someone representing the family should offer to buy it from him just in case he only hid it as insurance of some sort for his own past evil deeds??

.

[igsigs]

Statement made at 12:10 hours on 6/11 ?  That's around noon right?

Odd, because the story about 'something bad happened' has previously been said as coming from a statement at exactly 12:10 AM.  

[Anna]

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They had to get all the PIMP cell phones to destroy the evidence.  They failed to collect Sanders.  Is that phone chip intact somewhere or other?  Did CCroes assist them in removing the phone chips and evidence and replacing with new blank chips?

Why else would they need the cell phone of someone like Sander?  He is only on the fringe of the PIMPS and should not have been involved at all that night.  I don't recall any of the three suspects claiming to have stopped everything and phoned Sander for any reason.

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[Anna]

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OR a call to Sander to bring the boat???  Maybe Koen was already there.


ROBOTS,

I am keeping your floating sneaker theory in my mind.  
It's pretty good, I think.

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[2NJSons_Mom]

Statement made at 12:10 hours on 6/11 ?  That's around noon right?

Odd, because the story about 'something bad happened' has previously been said as coming from a statement at exactly 12:10 AM.  

That is eery, for lack of a better word.  Yes, 12:10 hours is around Noon.  :10 hours would be AM

[igsigs]

IGS,

Just to cut to the chase..

   OK. I admit it. I was taking a roundabout way with my questions. I say give Anna 5 minutes with the Sporter...and case closed!

[2NJSons_Mom]

igsigs, were you saying that the statement time was incorrect, by chance?

[igsigs]

igsigs, were you saying that the statement time was incorrect, by chance?

I don't really know what i am saying. The Aruban 'insiders', as recently as yesterday, were saying that the 'something bad happened' statement was on 6/11 at 12:10 AM. The late night time has always been given as an excuse for the confusion regarding the supposed confession.

I believe the FP statement time is correct. Beyond that...i just don't know.

[Bumper]

copied from today's GretaWire:

E-mail No. 10

Dear Greta,
Just got back from Aruba from our yearly vacation there. This time was so different. I think Natalee Holloway is getting back on them.
Apparently the island is inundated with crime due to drugs. My husband and I have been going there for over 12 years and have always felt safe until now. We were robbed of over $3000 worth of stuff on the beach last week during our visit.
They try so desperately to keep it secret — I learned this from the natives. However, the week before us there was another robbery on the beach — denied by the management of our resort (of course, due to public relations, etc.) Two days after we were robbed, so were my friends. A couple we met were robbed at the Lighthouse while visiting the beach! Three natives told me their homes were broken into! The crime is rampant on the island and word needs to get out. We type messages on the Aruban message boards to warn people and they do not get posted.
I had the pleasure of taunting Deepak Kalpoe at his place of business and then seeing Joran van der Sloot in the old Wyndham casino the night he was freed from the NY lawsuit. He walked in there with such arrogance that I wanted to punch him out! People in the casino that work there patted him on the back with such celebration it made me sick! The island reeks of corruption! The natives speak of Beth Twitty as a drunken slut who fixed the whole story. I met her last year late at night and she was sober as sober can be!
I have been going to Aruba for so many years — it was my home away from home. However, after being robbed on the beach, meeting Deepak and seeing Joran in action, I am totally confused! It is obvious (and spoken by the natives) that the government is so corrupt. I no longer feel safe in Aruba. How is it that Natalee is missing and these arrogant, low-life a__holes are walking free!
Donna Bykowski
Oakland, NJ

Beth said on Fox, just before the civil case was dismissed, that Arubans blame Natalee for their problems, not Joran, not the corruption that they seem to be aware of.  I believe that people who don't have the courage, means or brains to do something about the real problems in Aruba need someone else to blame:  Beth, Nancy, Natalee, Greta.   Then it's not their fault that THEY haven't said or done anything to address the problem.  Some might truly have reason to be afraid.  The rest are cowards.

I think Aruba is blaming anyone to try and get their tourism back in shape.  Didn't I hear about one hotel backing out of even building there?  The more they pat Joran on the back, the more they lose.  It doesn't sound like they are concerned about who is really their problem.  Are they still blaming Beth?  How long has it been since she's even been there?  Unreal!  

[robots]

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OR a call to Sander to bring the boat???  Maybe Koen was already there.


ROBOTS,

I am keeping your floating sneaker theory in my mind.  
It's pretty good, I think.

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yep, i like it also

im pretty good  

[sharon]

I'm thinking of one of Beth's statements  -- one that she made many times;


THEY ARE ALL POINTING FINGERS AT EACHOTHER. NO ONE IS DENYING A CRIME OCCURRED.


Now I see what she meant.  



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[Easywriter]

Anything goes in this place as long as it has nothing to do with ME and my life!  I will return the favor.

[Anna]

IGS,

Just to cut to the chase..

   OK. I admit it. I was taking a roundabout way with my questions. I say give Anna 5 minutes with the Sporter...and case closed!

You know it IGS!   Actually I meant for ME to cut to the chase but same applies I guess.  I must have just been blessed because I can't imagine kids lying like these do.  Incredible.  

None of mine have ever called me Anna either which Joran seems to do to his father Paul, use given name according to Deepak.  Teach them while they are young and when they are old .. . . . . . . . . If they don't respect you when they are small what are the chances they are going to when they tower over you by more than a foot as in my case?  

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[robots]

IGS,

Just to cut to the chase..

   OK. I admit it. I was taking a roundabout way with my questions. I say give Anna 5 minutes with the Sporter...and case closed!

You know it IGS!   Actually I meant for ME to cut to the chase but same applies I guess.  I must have just been blessed because I can't imagine kids lying like these do.  Incredible.  

None of mine have ever called me Anna either which Joran seems to do to his father Paul, use given name according to Deepak.  Teach them while they are young and when they are old .. . . . . . . . . If they don't respect you when they are small what are the chances they are going to when they tower over you by more than a foot as in my case?  

.

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

igsigs, were you saying that the statement time was incorrect, by chance?

I don't really know what i am saying. The Aruban 'insiders', as recently as yesterday, were saying that the 'something bad happened' statement was on 6/11 at 12:10 AM. The late night time has always been given as an excuse for the confusion regarding the supposed confession.

I believe the FP statement time is correct. Beyond that...i just don't know.

Found this where it says the announcement was made on Fox just before midnight by Craig Rivera...so there's another conflict.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159664,00.html

[Anna]

[
yep, i like it also

im pretty good  

That you are, my friend!  

[robots]

[
yep, i like it also

im pretty good  

That you are, my friend!  

i have lots of theories on just about everything