Lively Case Discussion #508 8/7 - 8/8/2006

[Anna]

.
vStraatten was scheduled to retire in July, I want to say the 15th, and since Aruba is under the Dutch/EU labor practices, of course he had that month or two of vacation coming.  He was to have left for it and then come back just to have retirement ceremony.

Instead he got back in charge some way or other and then more or less refused to leave for some time.  Even cut short the vacation which I think he finally did take part of.  Friday Dompig was placed in charge and Monday vStraatten back. Odd, that!  

And was seen by Dave Holloway and others still lurking about the police station long after he was retired.

I wonder why he would not leave it to Dompig?  Because it involved his best friend and while not actual Godson, same-as Godson Joran and he had to keep things under wraps?

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[Tylergal]

FROM SATISH'S STATEMENT:

I myself do not know Steve. My brother thinks that Steve works at Digicel.

Sounds like Satish had his Croes confused?  Or did Steve Croes actually work there with Charles??  I noticed that too and couldn't make sense of it, San.

Does anyone else recall that Deepak had the name of "Steve" in his pocket at the time he was arrested and it was not Steve Croes, but a Steve who has some connections in Florida and some connections to some human trafficking and/or prostitution.

[SunFreak2]

Email to Mr. Grossman @ USAToday travel ...

travel@usatoday.com

Other Deaths on Aruba:

Robert  Wayne Benson, 56 year old American Harley Davidson mechanic, found locked in a storage container behind the shop in Cura Cabay where he worked on 11-16-05. Death was ruled a suicide by Dr. van der Linden who performed the autopsy.

RENE MICHEL VAN HEYNINGEN – partially decapitated man found at cemetery on 6-18-05

Dinesh ‘Pitbull’ Djoegan, the 25 year old bouncer from Choose a Name Bar that was found on 4-5-06 in Guadirikiri cave. His body was mutilated, crucified, and set on fire.

Margarita Nedd-Panaqua, 35, from the Dominican Republic. She was stabbed by a jealous boyfriend on 11-4-05
.
Galyson Lucas Winster, a 27 year old choller. was shot in the head on 11-4-05.

Unknown woman found in garbage pile, June 2006

[Anna]

[
Does anyone else recall that Deepak had the name of "Steve" in his pocket at the time he was arrested and it was not Steve Croes, but a Steve who has some connections in Florida and some connections to some human trafficking and/or prostitution.

I recall it as the name Steve and the email address for some sort of commercial barge or ship like one used to transport something like oil, not a cruise ship but the working kind.  Was found on a scrap of paper in Deepak's pocket.  But my source for that is rather questionable but that's what he said anyway.

.

[Easywriter]

Why?

[Kat_Gram]

.IGSIGS,

Keep in mind as a backdrop for these statements and the holding on to the HI story that this weekend, the one of the retracted confession is the one where van der Straatten was was replaced by Dompig for this brief period of time.  It was under Dompig's tenure that the announcement was made to the media that there had been a confession.

In fact, Dompig was said to have voiced this information himself personally.  By Monday van der Straatten was back in charge.   What was that about?

I think if we knew how and why he was put back in charge, we would better know what was going on internally in the ALE during that crucial time.  Could Dompig have actually wanted to come clean and tell the truth of the matter but was prevented?  Hate to give him any credit he is not due that's for sure.

.

| You are right about that and I just read that today.
Dompig announces a confession, Van Der Stratten retracts it .
Deepak can remember how loud the radio was on May 31, but he cannot remember all the disussions they had with Paulus.
Plus what I just posted about the father, what information did he have ?
There has never been any doubt in my mind as to who was the puppet master here and it was Paulus. With his connections in the polis... Van Der Stratten.

[Easywriter]

IMG]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/Easywriter.gif[/IMG]

[Tylergal]

.IGSIGS,

Keep in mind as a backdrop for these statements and the holding on to the HI story that this weekend, the one of the retracted confession is the one where van der Straatten was was replaced by Dompig for this brief period of time.  It was under Dompig's tenure that the announcement was made to the media that there had been a confession.

In fact, Dompig was said to have voiced this information himself personally.  By Monday van der Straatten was back in charge.   What was that about?

I think if we knew how and why he was put back in charge, we would better know what was going on internally in the ALE during that crucial time.  Could Dompig have actually wanted to come clean and tell the truth of the matter but was prevented?  Hate to give him any credit he is not due that's for sure.

.

One of the Fox reporters said they had been told earlier in the day and it kept being denied by the minister of justice, Rudy Croes, that Natalee Holloway was dead and one of the three had confessed.  This person went on further to state something that led me to believe it was Dompig and in fact it was Dompig who later confirmed that Natalee was dead and someone had confessed but then it got all turned around and was that other Croes person who was said to have said it and the whole thing was withdrawn.  I wish I could find that now, but I had thought early on that Dompig was one of the good guys.

[nonesuche]

IMG]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/Easywriter.gif[/IMG]

Easy, are you using the link that says IMG inside of photobucket? If I can help, you're welcome to email that photo to me and I'll try to post it for you?

[Easywriter]

[nonesuche]

Anna-

Good point, before I'd even known from the family they had been informed by the FBI first then the ALE regarding this confession, I felt someone had broken rank to come forward and try to solve this case - and was squashed. I also wondered about Dave's email to Dompig in which he stated he had 'thought' he was one of the good guys trying to solve this until he made those statements about Natalee using drugs?

[Tylergal]

Anna-

Good point, before I'd even known from the family they had been informed by the FBI first then the ALE regarding this confession, I felt someone had broken rank to come forward and try to solve this case - and was squashed. I also wondered about Dave's email to Dompig in which he stated he had 'thought' he was one of the good guys trying to solve this until he made those statements about Natalee using drugs?

And now he is going to medical school.  Where would that be that accepts a man his age into pre-med, etc?

[SunFreak2]

ABBREVIATED TIMELINE FOLLOWING JUNE 9, 2005 ARRESTS

June 9 – ~6 – 6:30 AM - J2K arrested on “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence”
June 10 – Natalee’s loved ones rush to the lighthouse area after a police official tells the media that one of the three young men in custody admitted “something bad happened” and was leading police to the scene.

June 10 - Beth stated that her D.N.A. was requested by JANSSEN (BETH gave saliva and blood samples)

June 10 - Late that evening FOX News, AP and CNN reported that Dompig and Edward Croes stated that one of the arrested suspects had confessed, and police were being taken to a crime scene. DOMPIG also stated that one of the persons in custody had stated  "that something bad happened to NATALEE.”  Shortly after that statement became public, a press conference was held in which one senior government official made no reference to the Assistant Commissioner's statement, choosing rather, to say that the authorities were at a critical juncture in the investigations.

June 10 - Beth & Dave told by FBI that Natalee may no longer be alive because the 3 Main Suspects were “beginning to implicate each other, and they were not denying the crime, and they were finger-pointing at each other.”

June 10 - BETH phoned her mother and told her that Natalee was probably no longer alive.

June 10 - This weekend began scaling back of search for Natalee. ALE search teams venturing out only after credible tips & coast guard patrols offshore

June 10 - Oduber addresses Aruba that if something bad happened to Natalee it would be bad for the island long considered one of the safest CARIBBEAN OCEAN nations to visit, whose main industry is tourism.

June 10 – Aru-Bay video of what appears to be the recovery of a body is filmed.  It is later claimed to be that of a 7 year old illegal immigrant from Columbia, although the body is later reported to have been found a year earlier

June 11 - Rudy Croes states twice that one of the boys is talking and a body will be found soon.

June 11 - Oduber says there is blood in Deepak's car

June 11 – The radio stations in Aruba are also reporting that ARUBAN police are heading to recover NATALEE’s remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), then it’s Canashito, at the rock quarry.

June 13 – Julia Renfro hysterically notifies the Twittys that Natalee had been found dead and moved to the island’s courthouse.  Julia inserts herself to the Twittys’ overcrowded mini-van as they rush to the courthouse where they are met by a throng of television cameras.  The family finds the courthouse locked and apparently empty. Julia claimed her information came from a deputy information office in the justice department, but it was found that no official ever leaked the information.

June 11 –Vivian van der Biezen, spokeswoman for the Attorney General said, “The investigation (is) was at a very crucial point."

June 11 – Video tape of strange events taking place near the lighthouse were uploaded to the internet.

June 11 – Public announcements regarding confession & body location are officially retracted

June 11 – Aru-Bay video of rock painting is filmed
Aru-Bay video of body recovery is uploaded to internet

June 11 - vd STRAATEN was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRAATEN replied, “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.” When asked why not, STRAATEN replied, “Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!”

June 11 - Curacao criminal judge DICK van den BRINK came to Aruba & remanded J2K to be held for an additional 8 days

June 12 - Families asked to stop talking to the press

June 12 - Amalin Flanegin was added as second prosecutor after rumors that she would replace Jannsen

June 12 – An Amigoe article in the Aruban newspaper stated, “The father of one of the boys is a substitute judge. And every impression has to be prevented that the judge that is assigned is friends with the father of the boy.”

June 12 - Aru-Bay video of rock painting is uploaded to Internet

June 13 – Joran reportedly tells ALE that Deepak killed & buried Natalee near the huts.  Joran reportedly also claims that he was dropped at his home at 1:40.

June 13 - “FoxNews” RIVERA reported he just got off the phone with the Justice Minister RUDY CROES, and that CROES said there would a “resolution to the case momentarily.”

June 13 – John & Jones were released. JONES was released after his wife and mother testified that JONES was home sick all day 5-29 and 5-30 and wife was continuously with JONES.

June 13 – The lawyer of suspect ABRAHAM JONES, CHRIS LeJUEZ stated the following:
Two suspects: Joran van der Sloot and Abraham Jones were/are detained in the same cellblock at the police department in Noord. It is here that a crying suspect, Joran van der Sloot supposedly commented to another suspect, Abraham Jones the following:
He is very preoccupied because he thinks that the other two Surinamese suspects might be lying and blaming him for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
His new story is that they (with they, I mean the two other suspects) dropped him off at his home, with Natalee Holloway still in the car, further he and Natalee exchanged e-mail address and that was the last time he saw her.
He also added that the story that he told the officials was orchestrated at his home, near the pool.

June 14 – 3 condoms, duct tape, and women’s size 14-16 pink polka-dot or pink floral underwear are found near the Marriott Hotel Beach

June 15 – Search & Seizure of vd Sloot’s red jeep & medium-blue SUV, computers and misc. other physical evidence.  Ben King present during search.  Kalpoes home searched & car impounded

June 17 – Steve Croes arrested

June 17 – Dutch judge Bob Wit rules that Paulus not be allowed visitation with Joran. Wit also barred Carlos (Joran’s attorney) from visting b/c Carlo had visited with security guards during their arrest.  Joran’s family hires Richie Kock and Arjan Debie as attorneys for Joran.  Judge Wit extends remand of J2K

June 18 – Paulus questioned for 5 hours as possible witness

June 18 – Rene Van Heyningen found partially beheaded in a cemetery

June 19 – Judge Wit retains S Croes for an additional 8 days

June 20 – Joran reportedly is on suicide watch

June 21 – J2K transferred to KIA

June 21 – Beth & Greta visit with Paulus & Anita at vdS home for 90 minutes.  Allegedly Anita describes Natalee’s underwear & genitals, as well as provides a graphic description of Joran’s sexual encounter with Natalee.

June 21 – J2K transferred to KIA

June 23 – Paulus vd Sloot is arrested under suspicion of complicity to premeditated murder, complicity to murder and complicity to kidnapping.

June 24 – Police secretly tape conversations of J2K while they are being transported together in police vehicle

[SunFreak2]

ABBREVIATED TIMELINE FOLLOWING JUNE 9, 2005 ARRESTS

une 11 – The radio stations in Aruba are also reporting that ARUBAN police are heading to recover NATALEE’s remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), then it’s Canashito, at the rock quarry.

June 13 – Julia Renfro hysterically notifies the Twittys that Natalee had been found dead and moved to the island’s courthouse.  Julia inserts herself to the Twittys’ overcrowded mini-van as they rush to the courthouse where they are met by a throng of television cameras.  The family finds the courthouse locked and apparently empty. Julia claimed her information came from a deputy information office in the justice department, but it was found that no official ever leaked the information.

June 11 –Vivian van der Biezen, spokeswoman for the Attorney General said, “The investigation (is) was at a very crucial point."

Make that June 11.

[nonesuche]

Anna-

Good point, before I'd even known from the family they had been informed by the FBI first then the ALE regarding this confession, I felt someone had broken rank to come forward and try to solve this case - and was squashed. I also wondered about Dave's email to Dompig in which he stated he had 'thought' he was one of the good guys trying to solve this until he made those statements about Natalee using drugs?

And now he is going to medical school.  Where would that be that accepts a man his age into pre-med, etc?

in a word MEXICO  

[2NJSons_Mom]

Going to try this again...last time I hit a key and my post was gone....

Read the statements given on 6/10.  In Deepak's he was questioned about cleaning his car.  He mentioned it was done on Sunday, because it needed it...sand, or whatever, and he cleans it when he feels like it.  Later, it's mentioned that they all met with attorneys on Saturday.  

6/10 was a Friday.  Natalee went missing early 5/30 Monday...the attorney meeting was 6/4....car cleaning 6/5....maybe the cleaning that was purported to have occurred on 5/30 early AM was deemed not enough by the attorneys hired...thus, another cleansing on 6/5, almost a week later...just thinking here..

I see others have picked up on several of the things that stood out to me, as well.

[Anna]

.
MsMarple and Sunfreak,

Thanks for all the help with Grossman.  I may need those other murders should he bother to reply which I doubt.  But I will then contact the Ombudsman for the paper.  

Some may not think too much of the boycott but it is real and it is something we have and have worked for and I am not going to let it go on the sad sad chance that it should turn out to be all we have in the end.

I think it was Art Colley who used to have the signature line that in order to find a body, you had to first be looking for one.  Therein lies the problem with this investigation as well.     We have no guarantees.

[igsigs]

After June 10 2005 -- EVERYTHING IN THIS CASE HAS BEEN A MESS -- EVERYTHING.

Why?

As stated by you...internal conflict. Jan van der Straaten. Friend of Paulus. Tearing down the kidnapped posters and denying search parties from day 1. The 48 hr rule was quoted twice in the first days of the investigation, by Jan and Paulus. Same page. Briefly removed from the case by Oduber, reinstated by court order. Pre-planned retirement from ALE cancelled. Hence a conflict of interest not only ignored...but extended. Why the humble sacrifice by van der Straaten? To hang the Sloots? No. The evidence drawer at Noord still needed to be managed.

Jannsen no hero here, as law states that she is responsible for the case as a whole. I just can't see the 40yr vet van der Straaten dancing to her tune. The SG debacle more likely his call. And remember Dave's mantra from July and August...promoting communication between ALE and Janssen. I think the arrest of J2K and Paulus were made by Janssen when she 'woke up'...but Jan and Paulus already had too big of a lead for her to make up. Out of frustration she went public, bashed Paulus, and has been silenced since.

[nonesuche]

oh geez, I don't want anyone to make something of my post of Mexico, it is just that some of the biggest quacks in medicine I have known were unable to get into US medical schools but were accepted in Mexico. They go there, make easy grades and transfer back into US med schools.

I lived in a medical center and was on a hospital board at one time, learned more than I wanted to know regarding some of this. that was not an ethnic slur but rather an issue regarding entrance standards.

[Tylergal]

oh geez, I don't want anyone to make something of my post of Mexico, it is just that some of the biggest quacks in medicine I have known were unable to get into US medical schools but were accepted in Mexico. They go there, make easy grades and transfer back into US med schools.

I lived in a medical center and was on a hospital board at one time, learned more than I wanted to know regarding some of this. that was not an ethnic slur but rather an issue regarding entrance standards.

Oh, not to worry.  I thought you mean he was going to Mexico to "medicine" school, as in medicine school like Lorenzo is into.