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Author Topic: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05  (Read 182173 times)
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #720 on: June 25, 2005, 03:21:16 AM »

Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.
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Professor
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« Reply #721 on: June 25, 2005, 03:21:57 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #722 on: June 25, 2005, 03:22:28 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


My point was that you should investigate with and open mind. You seem to have your mind made up about exactly what happened, and are looking for evidence to support your theories. May I suggest you're putting the cart before the horse. You should be finding the evidence first and form a theory from there. What happens when you are so sure, is that things get made up - like Dan Rather's Bush memos for example.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #723 on: June 25, 2005, 03:22:48 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


You have your own thread for your emails.


Nancy, please stop. I certainly am able to reference my e-mail as you are to reference FOX, etc.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #724 on: June 25, 2005, 03:25:24 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Yes get a grip,

She really meant that we should go play clue.


You sound so...bitter. No soup for YOU!



definition of bitter please.....

I believe its annoyed that your looking for

** PM is working
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Getagrip
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« Reply #725 on: June 25, 2005, 03:26:03 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #726 on: June 25, 2005, 03:27:01 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Well, next time you talk to the one you got it from, ask for an IP address.


Nancy, if its an IP address you are looking for to prove its validity, you will not get it.

Again, take it for what it's worth, pass over me please, if you don't believe it's real.


You have your own thread for your emails.


Nancy, please stop. I certainly am able to reference my e-mail as you are to reference FOX, etc.


Sorry, I can't take your word on its validity. Obviously, this email means a great deal to you.  Hate to break your bubble, but whether it's real or not...you're probably one of dozens who have it.  As I said before I will not reference a document that's author is unknown.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #727 on: June 25, 2005, 03:27:42 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.


I would think even if shes found in water, the fact that he was last seen with her and hopefully some other evidence they have that we dont know about will implicate someone they are holding without any DNA.  Right now they are all being held withtout a body so if they find one, I believe their circumstantial evidence would be enough to charge someone.
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Getagrip
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« Reply #728 on: June 25, 2005, 03:27:55 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com
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-------->  Aruba = Opposite World  <--------
absolut
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« Reply #729 on: June 25, 2005, 03:29:19 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.


So in the 30 mins he was at CNC before it closed, he hooks with her, gets her to take date rape drug, convinces her while still in the bar to leave with him and let her close friends go back to HI without her. Then at 1am ushers her to the car, all the while none of the MBHS that are left notice a thing and she is "fine".
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bamarez
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« Reply #730 on: June 25, 2005, 03:29:38 AM »

Haven't been able to read ALL the posts on here, way too many, but think the medication Natalee was prescribed hasn't been narrowed down or confirmed?
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #731 on: June 25, 2005, 03:29:56 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"


Sorry, I can't take your word on its validity. Obviously, this email means a great deal to you.  Hate to break your bubble, but whether it's real or not...you're probably one of dozens who have it.  As I said before I will not reference a document that's author is unknown.


I dont expect you too, all I ask is that when I reference it, let it be.

You have broken no bubble, I hope many people have it, as a reference.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #732 on: June 25, 2005, 03:31:38 AM »

Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com



Why do women have to be like this? I was hoping you would use it for your conversation. You did state you would, if it were working.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #733 on: June 25, 2005, 03:32:30 AM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Inspector Im not going to even answer your sarcastic questions anymore, Maybe you and Wonder Woman should get together for a game of Clue or something.  

Im just not going to waste the board bandwith answering your sarcasm.


My point was that you should investigate with and open mind. You seem to have your mind made up about exactly what happened, and are looking for evidence to support your theories. May I suggest you're putting the cart before the horse. You should be finding the evidence first and form a theory from there. What happens when you are so sure, is that things get made up - like Dan Rather's Bush memos for example.


Imnot forcing anyone to believe what I say.  Im just taking the situation from point a to point b based on the evidence that we know which is very little.  And also of my knowledge of many other murder cases where just the very simple minute fact of changing a story is such a red flag to investigators that there is no reason BASED ON PAST CRIMINAL CASES to look in a different direction.

What you fail to realize is that I hope I am wrong.  Wouldnt it be great to get a call from Columbia from her mom saying she escaped some sex ring? yea it would but the chances of that based on just the few facts we know is so slim its not even worth considering.
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absolut
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« Reply #734 on: June 25, 2005, 03:32:45 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
** PM is working

Not to worry, I wasn't planning to email you...unless you really want the attention?

If you want to look up definitions, go to www.dictionary.com



Why do women have to be like this? I was hoping you would use it for your conversation. You did state you would, if it were working.


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?
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PoorPaulaNNJ
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« Reply #735 on: June 25, 2005, 03:33:16 AM »

Hi, All;
Any updates?
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Professor
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« Reply #736 on: June 25, 2005, 03:33:31 AM »

I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #737 on: June 25, 2005, 03:33:46 AM »

Quote from: "bamarez"
Haven't been able to read ALL the posts on here, way too many, but think the medication Natalee was prescribed hasn't been narrowed down or confirmed?

\
Nobody knows what medication she was taking.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #738 on: June 25, 2005, 03:36:21 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.


sociopath and narcissism are the 2 words that explain the father and son.  However, I dont view the mother as an enabler, shes rather a victim of years of emotional abuse and cant see the forest for the trees.
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #739 on: June 25, 2005, 03:36:55 AM »

I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.
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