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Author Topic: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05  (Read 188140 times)
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #740 on: June 25, 2005, 03:38:29 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
I'm going to give it to you one more time, and then you can all pile on. Since everything on this message board is pure speculation, at least we can look at the MOST BELIEVABLE SCENARIO. Jvds was raised in a narcissistic family and is a budding sociopath. Mommy and daddy have covered for him from day one. When he brutalized his younger brother he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes (sic), to control his aggression. His mother is an enabler and claims to be completely ignorant of his drinking and drugs. He is 17 but frequents the casinos. There are even reports that he brags about slipping girls a date rape drug and taking advantage of them. His father is willing to cover for a brutal crime and may have even participated in a cover-up. On the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared, he knew that the girls of MBHS would be departing for the United States in the morning. He was thinking that he would slip one of them a date-rape drug, take advantage of her, and she would end up a thousand miles away before before she even remembered what happened. And daddy, with all of his connections, would keep him in the clear. Only something went wrong. Something went very wrong.


Thats most believable? Thats mostly rumor....reports? of him slipping girls drugs... and your impression of JVS from God only knows where....
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absolut
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« Reply #741 on: June 25, 2005, 03:39:24 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


The brothers obstructed justice for sure.

Then there is Conspiracy/cover-up.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #742 on: June 25, 2005, 03:40:17 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.
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Getagrip
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« Reply #743 on: June 25, 2005, 03:41:52 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Getagrip"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?


I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.


WITH a date rape drug, you MIGHT HAVE a an accidental overdose, or something to that effect. WITHOUT a date rape drug, you have a BRUTAL RAPE and a COLD-BLOODED MURDER. Otherwise, they just dust the sand off and walk back to the HI. Sorry, folks. I've been trying to give JvdS the benefit of the doubt, and the date-rape drug, while perfectly consistent with sociopathic behavior, is less of a monstrosity.

I'm leaning towards the date-rape drug scenario myself, which would support the 'premeditated murder' suspicion.

If a date rape drug were used, there would have to be a reasonable indication that using it on a 110 lb girl who had been drinking, could have resulted in death.

I agree that using a date-rape drug is an indication of sociopathic behavior.


So in the 30 mins he was at CNC before it closed, he hooks with her, gets her to take date rape drug, convinces her while still in the bar to leave with him and let her close friends go back to HI without her. Then at 1am ushers her to the car, all the while none of the MBHS that are left notice a thing and she is "fine".

Not sure when the date rape drug was administered, but if C'nC Aruba is like most other bars in the Caribbean, you can leave with drinks in plastic glasses.

There's a big crowd of partygoers outside CnC at closing time, all arranging to depart to their respective destinations.

J tells N, I'll accompany you to the hotel. N thinks Kalpoe brothers' car is a taxi.

MBHS students who catch a glimpse thinks she has gotten into a taxi with the cute boy who was flirting with her that night.

Seems harmless. Although hindsight is 20/20.

On that note, I'm going to bid you a good night and be a good girl and not respond to the borderline trolling that has been hurled at me (nah! not you absolut! I'll leave it at that Smile )
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #744 on: June 25, 2005, 03:42:18 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...
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Getagrip
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« Reply #745 on: June 25, 2005, 03:44:06 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...

Amen!  Oops...that's right, off to bed I go Smile
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grgnfg420
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« Reply #746 on: June 25, 2005, 03:44:56 AM »

i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.
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absolut
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« Reply #747 on: June 25, 2005, 03:45:11 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


No, if we knew everything there would be no reason to be here.  It's all critical thinking...


Even when we know everything there will still be reasons to be here. I see over 1100 of them in the register users list.
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Professor
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« Reply #748 on: June 25, 2005, 03:45:28 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #749 on: June 25, 2005, 03:45:30 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #750 on: June 25, 2005, 03:48:57 AM »

Not being critical ...but the critical point to remember is to debate the critical elements derived from critical thinking without being critical.


sorry ...couldn't resist.. Cool  Cool  Laughing  Laughing
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #751 on: June 25, 2005, 03:50:29 AM »

Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


I dont buy it.  In an accidently Overdose you might panic but eventually you will tell the truth, with a  total coverup and story changing turns this case in a different direction and thats towards accidental death by strangulation or brutal rage murder.  Deaths are more likely made to look like accidents when they are not, you dont implicate friends and family in a situation that was an ACCIDENT someone of logical mind would report it as such. You would have to have every single person involved in the coverup of the accident basically have some sort of personality disorder.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #752 on: June 25, 2005, 03:51:56 AM »

Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


that's reasonable. like the "420"

may not have been dead though
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Professor
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« Reply #753 on: June 25, 2005, 03:51:57 AM »

Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


Read my lips. Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. If there were drugs involved, they were given to her AT CLOSING TIME. And they would only be given by one who who was in a position to take advantage of the situation. It is ludicrous to think that someone else would have slipped something into her drink and then watched her walk off with JVDS. And it is ludicrous to think that Natalee is going to voluntarily take drugs while driving around with 3 guys in the car. Even if it were mixed into beer or soft drink. She would be on her guard, at that point.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #754 on: June 25, 2005, 03:53:29 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.



I meant US, here.....no evidence here.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #755 on: June 25, 2005, 03:54:42 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.
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absolut
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« Reply #756 on: June 25, 2005, 03:54:43 AM »

Quote
Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran.


I swear what I have read in the last 24 hours about CNC's "stage". ANYTIHNG is possible up there by that big monkey head.
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absolut
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« Reply #757 on: June 25, 2005, 03:56:05 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.
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NoDumbBunny
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« Reply #758 on: June 25, 2005, 03:56:21 AM »

''Evening all....

Took me an hour just to read this evenings posts   LOL  Lots of great thoughts and theories out there....

I was thinking - that Natalee did not necessarily take any drug

I reference the nhtsa.dot.org's Campaign Safe & Sober and put this out as food for thought.

"Teenagers are particularly vulnerable to AOD (alcohol overdose). Of the first 8 cases Remove Intoxicated Drivers (RID)  discovered, half were 16 years old or younger. At least half were first-time drinkers and had never been drunk before. Five were put to bed by friends or their own parents to “sleep it off,” only to be found dead in the morning. Their friends or parents didn’t know that if a person drinks too much alcohol quickly before falling asleep, the alcohol will shut down breathing and heart functions and kill a person within a few hours."
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Whitney
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« Reply #759 on: June 25, 2005, 03:56:34 AM »

Quote from: "Michael22"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Be Right Back...going to test whether I can walk three miles in the time that Joran said he did from the Marriott beach to his house....don't want to leave anthing up to speculation.

note: edit...Marriott has 2 "r"s

ok don't get abducted
cause right now it's 3am
 Shocked


Thanks...to return to the comfort of the n_drew v. wonderwoman discussion is what kept me slogging on; thinking that JVDS has at least a 20-27% longer total stride length than I, the only thing that kept me on track was that froth.  

Everyone still alive?
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