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Author Topic: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05  (Read 200388 times)
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #760 on: June 25, 2005, 03:57:05 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "grgnfg420"
i think she they were all on X that night and had been drinking which combined can easily kill someone i think joran and natalie both went to the beach and had relations and suddenly she od'ed and joran panicked and got the kalpos to pick him up. but X is a lot diffent than most date rape drugs, it doesnt make you fall asleep it wakes u up and makes u happy so  i think whatevrer happend on the beach was consensual.  when they say "something bad happend" this is where i think natalie od'ed and joran panicked. i do believe joran left natalie alone on the beach but she was dead from the overdose. but if anyone was with a girl and she suddenly overdosed you would not want anything to do with it, this is where the alibi comes in. which is reasonable.


Read my lips. Natalee Holloway wasn't exactly doing a lap dance for Joran. If there were drugs involved, they were given to her AT CLOSING TIME. And they would only be given by one who who was in a position to take advantage of the situation. It is ludicrous to think that someone else would have slipped something into her drink and then watched her walk off with JVDS. And it is ludicrous to think that Natalee is going to voluntarily take drugs while driving around with 3 guys in the car. Even if it were mixed into beer or soft drink. She would be on her guard, at that point.


Why is it so impossible to think she took X ?
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Professor
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« Reply #761 on: June 25, 2005, 03:57:21 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #762 on: June 25, 2005, 03:59:45 AM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.
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WonderWoman
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« Reply #763 on: June 25, 2005, 04:00:56 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.



Her own friends said that she approached him.....
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Professor
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« Reply #764 on: June 25, 2005, 04:02:08 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.


Forget about who approached whom and when. JVDS met and schoozed with lots of girls from MBHS. Natalee Holloway was just his victim of opportunity on the night she disappeared. Simple.
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NoDumbBunny
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« Reply #765 on: June 25, 2005, 04:03:49 AM »

Whitney???  Hello!!

So how long did your walk take you?? Cool
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absolut
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« Reply #766 on: June 25, 2005, 04:04:16 AM »

Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


If I could get a straight story on when they met, and each time they interacted before CNC's I would know if he was stalking her at least for sex.


Youre right theres no set story on who approached who that is probably on the cameras.  The way its being reported is she approached him and that makes me think he didnt need the date rape drug. I also know what that drug does to people and its not a pretty sight, im talking falling down, have to be carried type behavior thats why I think if she had been slipped the date rape drug she would not have been able to walk about of that bar on her own.  I think she had enough to drink to cloud her judgement but not enough to make her have sex with Joran which pissed him off.



Her own friends said that she approached him.....


There are at least 3 different stories to this one, time, who, what etc. None are fact in my book. Do you guys realize that one of the timelines for their meeting is during the school day on Friday at the HI casino. One is Saturday and the final is sunday at 930pm.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #767 on: June 25, 2005, 04:05:00 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.
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Whitney
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« Reply #768 on: June 25, 2005, 04:05:36 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy:

So if the body is out at sea...the chance of finding forensic evidence is slim, right?  I don't think it's easy to find DNA on the beach?  So unless a body is found a confession is the only way for a conviction.


I would think even if shes found in water, the fact that he was last seen with her and hopefully some other evidence they have that we dont know about will implicate someone they are holding without any DNA.  Right now they are all being held withtout a body so if they find one, I believe their circumstantial evidence would be enough to charge someone.


Given all that, if there is no talking...none...the "stare decisis" in the Netherlandic judicial jurisdictions is that absent a body and overwhelming evidence, the last confined will walk...what is it...120 or 141 days...at that point, if they aren't charged, they are free to go.  

I wouldn't want to got the Florida at that point and try to play soccer or claim that full scholarship, though, under those circumstances.  

Hey, that's the worst case.
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Professor
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« Reply #769 on: June 25, 2005, 04:06:40 AM »

The thrill of gambling is knowing how to improvise. Sociopaths don't always stalk a single victim. They work a group, and see which one they can lure away from the pack. Joran loves to gamble, and is a great improvisor. That is why he was able to change stories and still have 100 people on this bulletin board cheering him on.
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Professor
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« Reply #770 on: June 25, 2005, 04:10:32 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.
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chelsblu
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« Reply #771 on: June 25, 2005, 04:11:17 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "WonderWoman"
Quote from: "absolut"


Maybe you guys are just getting tired?



Probably, but I think what's happening is lack of evidence only leaves speculation, opinion and theory.


In essence, a mess.


Lack of evidence is your assumption. Just because they dont have natalie doesnt mean they dont have evidence.


Also an assumption. Remember Greta's 10% that was alluded to right before the video tape evidence that still hasn't been referenced. Guilt or innocence should not be determined on basis of PVDS gambling and cheating on his wife....if indeed he did either. Folks say the letter's a fake and then use a passage to support a hypothesis. See a picture of Joran with a glass in his hand...assume it's alcohol. Joran is young, arrogant, and thinks he's don juan...he'a a psychopathic murderer. PVDS doesn't want to be questioned by hordes of media monsters and runs...he must be guilty. AVDS looks rough..she's a battered wife. On and ON and on.

THis forum is interesting when posts are about looking into the the tidbits of information to try and draw a conclusion. Yes that's speculation but it's at least based on something tangible instead of how someone looks, talks or their unorthodox lifestyle.

maybe they did it and maybe they didn't but if the police had evidence then we should be seeing more results instead of just talk about tactical maneuvers. YOu'd have to have your head in the sand to not wonder if they are just fishing until they luck into something concrete.
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absolut
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« Reply #772 on: June 25, 2005, 04:12:34 AM »

Quote
WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Totally agree with this post. But I believe PVDS is the reason why he believes these things. The posse not being taken into account should be the kids first clue not to trust dad.
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KJ
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« Reply #773 on: June 25, 2005, 04:13:01 AM »

The faster I read, the faster you post, so it’s hard to catch up on this message board!  Then when I tried to post I got kicked off line. It must be an initiation of sorts for new members   Very Happy

I heard on Fox News tonight that a judge from Curacao was coming to hear this whole case today at 3 p.m., and that this (higher?) judge has the right to do his own interrogation of anyone who’s been detained.  

I wonder if this is standard procedure at a point when a local judge thinks there is enough evidence for charges and for preparing for a trial.  This judge from Curacao will make decisions about formal charges and whom police can continue to detain?  Tomorrow may be a day when we learn new info then, especially if most relevant info has been “guarded” until this Curacao judge can rule in this case?  For all we know, someone may have confessed already.  I agree with everyone who’s been saying there’s a lot we don't know... We still may not learn anything new though  Crying or Very sad  But because tomorrow is also is when the new search begins, I am hopeful we will learn SOMETHING new!  

Although I am not one to avoid thinking of death when it seems the greatest possibility, I still don’t feel Natalee is dead.  It’s hard to think, especially for the family, that we may never know what really has happened.
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Whitney
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« Reply #774 on: June 25, 2005, 04:13:44 AM »

Quote from: "NoDumbBunny"
Whitney???  Hello!!

So how long did your walk take you?? Cool


Hey...I'm no dumb bunny...do me a favor....take the time of my post when I said I was going to walk, add three minutes for the time it took to put my Sauconys on, then take my last post time and subtract the time I said I was goin'...oh and then subtract that three minutes, remember, above.  

I'll give you the distance, too, if you need that number. Wink

Just turned on the radio and they say that Roger Ebert just got a star on a sidewalk in Hollywood.  Now, that's something to fight about for me!
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NoDumbBunny
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« Reply #775 on: June 25, 2005, 04:15:37 AM »

Whitney or anyone?


Could the Dutch courts impose "TBS" (ter beschikking stelling) on JVdS without a body or a criminal  conviction?? Shocked
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #776 on: June 25, 2005, 04:17:37 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I agree with you Razzy...the date rape drug seems illogical to me.  I wasn't certain about the dad...but, the timeline is tight and Joran couldn't do this alone.  I suspect he never told Depak and Satish the real story. I don't think his ego would allow that.  I'm hoping if that's the case those boys don't do jail time.  To me, they seem like great kids.  Could be wrong.


Without the date-rape drug, we have a straight Ted Bundy operation. Lure the girl away from the pack, use the Kalpoe brothers, the lack of a body, and the changing stories as plausible deniability, get her into a desolate spot, rape and murder her. Then let the legal system (which he knows very well) work its magic.


Thats far fetched.  She went willinging with these guys.  Implying ted bundy implies he stalked her as a victim, which I dont think he did. I think she went with him and he got mad or got too rough.  I do think hes a sociopath and I do think he thinks he can beat the system.


Lot's of girls WILLINGLY left with Ted Bundy. They just didn't know where they would end up, and they didn't know that they wouldn't come back.


We are kind of saying similar things on certain things, so I dont want to get into a disagreement regarding definitions.  I compared the Van Der Sloots to Ted bundy earlier and got my head bit off.  You feel his entire behavior could be in the same arena with Ted Bundy because of date rape, and I feel his demeanor was headed in that direction.  I think theres something in his emotions that he cant control. You think the date rape drug killed her, I think he did it physcially. It really was only a matter of time that this happen to someone if his prior uses of the date rape drug are true.


WRONG. I don't think there is ANYTHING in his behavior that he CAN'T control. I think he's in COMPLETE control, even now. Even in jail. I really believe that he thinks he can beat this rap. The only wild card was the posse. He wasn't counting on that.


Youre free to think what you want but Im not going to get in an argument with you.  Ted Bundy type sociopaths graduate to worse and worse behaviors and he hasnt shown anything to indicate he has a tendancy to take people against their will and kill them.  That is something that builds up over time.  They typically get worse as time goes along.  Hes definitely a sociopath in his behavior to so arrogantly try to snuff the system and also in his ability to just go to school the next day and take exams.   Theres nothing yet to indicate he stalked natalie.  The key word is yet.
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Professor
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« Reply #777 on: June 25, 2005, 04:19:01 AM »

The collective intelligence of the blogs is greatly exaggerated. What we get here are mostly are a lot of ^5's and LOL's and backslapping and planning for barbeques when this is all done. Mutual self-congratulation. I just hope that the FBI and the Aruban police force doesn't succumb to this herd mentality.
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absolut
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« Reply #778 on: June 25, 2005, 04:19:34 AM »

Quote from: "KJ"
The faster I read, the faster you post, so it’s hard to catch up on this message board!  Then when I tried to post I got kicked off line. It must be an initiation of sorts for new members   Very Happy

I heard on Fox News tonight that a judge from Curacao was coming to hear this whole case today at 3 p.m., and that this (higher?) judge has the right to do his own interrogation of anyone who’s been detained.  

I wonder if this is standard procedure at a point when a local judge thinks there is enough evidence for charges and for preparing for a trial.  This judge from Curacao will make decisions about formal charges and whom police can continue to detain?  Tomorrow may be a day when we learn new info then, especially if most relevant info has been “guarded” until this Curacao judge can rule in this case?  For all we know, someone may have confessed already.  I agree with everyone who’s been saying there’s a lot we don't know... We still may not learn anything new though  Crying or Very sad  But because tomorrow is also is when the new search begins, I am hopeful we will learn SOMETHING new!  

Although I am not one to avoid thinking of death when it seems the greatest possibility, I still don’t feel Natalee is dead.  It’s hard to think, especially for the family, that we may never know what really has happened.


I have a huge concern about the search starting tomorrow.

Evidence: Undocumented, untested, but thought to be important evidence by the texas group. It gets turned over to Aruba LE and the quagmeyer begins. We all saw the misinformation and eventual discounting of what started out as blood evidence. Now we have all see the "pond dump" and other areas that could contain "evidence" in some ways this could be the worst case for the prosecutions case.
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NoDumbBunny
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« Reply #779 on: June 25, 2005, 04:20:37 AM »

Whitney?

By my (blonde) math - 40 Minutes is how long it took you to walk it!!
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