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Author Topic: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05  (Read 171478 times)
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #920 on: June 25, 2005, 08:39:05 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.

Morning North Kackalacky girl. Im in NC also. Ill take some coffee and offer you a blueberry muffin!
I posted earlier my cousin was missing for a yr and there was suspicion his friends did something to him etc etc. He was supposed to be at their place and what not. They were drunk etc etc. Anyway turned out he had crashed his car and sadly passed away and had been there for the whole yr. The thing is his friends NEVER changed their story or lied about it. I cant get passed the fact these guys have lied from day 1. even if the story the brothers are telling now is true, still why lie to begin with?


oooooohhhhhhhhh blueberry muffins, my fav! Thanks, extra coffee for you!   Very Happy  Very Happy

I know, the ever changing stories. Locally we had a 12 yr old go missing, no one changed stories, except for the man who had found the boy's bike. For some reason, this jerk, couldn't remember were in the yard he saw it first or when he saw it first. This jerk hid in plain site as well, one of the leaders of the search team, wroking hard on getting the word out and all. 2 weeks later the 12 yr old was found in a corn field by some immigrants, and guess who was most suspicious to LE at first glance. But, thank God, evidence proved the child had just recently been placed there, and it was determined the original creep had kept the boy dead, under his bed until he thought the coast was clear several weeks later.  BTW, the creep was here, having skipped bail in VA on a sodomy charge. He confessed when the DP was put on the table, and although he was supposed to allocute at sentencing, he refused--only causing the family more pain. This family trusted him right up until LE told them the creep's story was no longer the same about 2 weeks after the disappearance. The changing of the stories, it being hard to keep up a lie for long, almost will always bring out the truth.
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momto5
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« Reply #921 on: June 25, 2005, 08:40:28 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
Charmz
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« Reply #922 on: June 25, 2005, 08:40:52 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.


What makes you think they dont have any evidence.  just because we dont know what it is doesnt mean there isnt any.  They have to have pretty good reason to hold 5 people including a judge without any evidence.


Why the attitude?  I am only giving an honest opinion about why Aruba wants to use murder.  They want to close it and move on.

I don't believe they need a lot of evidence to detain and hold people, as evidenced already.
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Curiosity
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« Reply #923 on: June 25, 2005, 08:40:59 AM »

Another tidbit I thought about based on Greta's report last night. Greta did a tour of the known places both known and the latest Joren lie. She started with the casino where Joren and dad were gambling that night and ended up on the beach north of the Mariott at night. During that tour, she said the drive to Joren's home was 10-12 minutes. Yet Joren's latest story is that he left Natalee on the beach and walked home???? Even if I drive at a slow speed of say 20 miles an hour......it covers a lot of miles. Drive at something like 45 or 50 mph and the idea of walking home seems far fetched...especially in the dark! I just can't see the part about walking home as truthful, especially if he was in class by morning!
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #924 on: June 25, 2005, 08:41:29 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


I must have missed this to...was that this morning?  Last night, Ruben T was saying the authorities are operating under the premise she is alive.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #925 on: June 25, 2005, 08:41:39 AM »

The point everyone is missing is that you dont know what evidence they found in the cars, on the computer, via cell phone calls, etc etc etc. They have been working around the clock and have5 people in custody and are welcoming a search team from texas.  Aruba does not report evidence like we do here in America.  They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #926 on: June 25, 2005, 08:42:40 AM »

Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


I must have missed this to...was that this morning?  Last night, Ruben T was saying the authorities are operating under the premise she is alive.


You can go to the fox news website there is a heading stating they belive she was killed.
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Charmz
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« Reply #927 on: June 25, 2005, 08:43:32 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.


Seems they are getting closer to a charge.  But I just wonder if it is a lot of smoke and mirrors.  Hoping beyond hope that there is a bigger conspiracy of human traficking and Nat is alive.

It's difficult to comprehend with such different law than ours.  In some ways it is preferable, but to us, baffling with the secrecy.  We are so used to having information, NOW.
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momto5
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« Reply #928 on: June 25, 2005, 08:45:04 AM »

Quote from: "Curiosity"
Another tidbit I thought about based on Greta's report last night. Greta did a tour of the known places both known and the latest Joren lie. She started with the casino where Joren and dad were gambling that night and ended up on the beach north of the Mariott at night. During that tour, she said the drive to Joren's home was 10-12 minutes. Yet Joren's latest story is that he left Natalee on the beach and walked home???? Even if I drive at a slow speed of say 20 miles an hour......it covers a lot of miles. Drive at something like 45 or 50 mph and the idea of walking home seems far fetched...especially in the dark! I just can't see the part about walking home as truthful, especially if he was in class by morning!

I dont believe for a moment he walked home. I tend to think thats where his father might come into the story. My thought pattern has been leaning towards that his father knew he was out. That he didnt sneak out. That the reason the brothers dropped him off at the beach was Joran already had a pre arranged ride home, and that the brothers knew he has a ride also. I think something went south on the beach, and his father knew or knew shortly after. That might be where the complicity comes in. If he knew and did nothing then he would be charged also.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
pinemeadows
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« Reply #929 on: June 25, 2005, 08:45:10 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.


Right, except up until now they've been saying she could be alive; at least that's what they are saying.  Perhaps that's less painful for us all to hear.

I think what those boys and pops were involved in must be so horrifying that they themselves will probably never confess...and if anyone does, my bets are on the dad.  He is very very very afraid of something/someone, and I don't think it's just  LE.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #930 on: June 25, 2005, 08:45:29 AM »

Theres a new thread started.
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Charmz
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« Reply #931 on: June 25, 2005, 08:45:46 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
The point everyone is missing is that you dont know what evidence they found in the cars, on the computer, via cell phone calls, etc etc etc. They have been working around the clock and have5 people in custody and are welcoming a search team from texas.  Aruba does not report evidence like we do here in America.  They know everything pretty much except where she is.   Fox news has probably been told about 10% of all the information that the authorities have gathered.



I'm not missing the point.  I just don't believe the spoon fed media.  They (news)  are being told what Aruba wants them to hear.  I for one still think there is a bigger picture.
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RB
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« Reply #932 on: June 25, 2005, 08:46:24 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Theres a new thread started.


Thanks. Smile  5 minutes and I'm locking this one...
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MsPooh
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« Reply #933 on: June 25, 2005, 08:47:02 AM »

Haven't I seen a  post on here about aruban laws, that if things are leaked concerning the investigation that the whole case can be thrown out?Maybe we should be glad in the fact that they aren't letting anything get out that has come out in forensic testing and so on that could harm the case.We are just used to a pretty quick outcome in most cases and knowing most of the information they gather as it comes out.
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momto5
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« Reply #934 on: June 25, 2005, 08:48:32 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.


Oh I know. We have absolutely no idea what they have been told. For all we know any of the people in custody could have confessed by now. Or they could have had forensics come back on anything they took from their houses. We really arent going to know until they are charged.


Seems they are getting closer to a charge.  But I just wonder if it is a lot of smoke and mirrors.  Hoping beyond hope that there is a bigger conspiracy of human traficking and Nat is alive.

It's difficult to comprehend with such different law than ours.  In some ways it is preferable, but to us, baffling with the secrecy.  We are so used to having information, NOW.

Im actually more greatful now to be an american then before. Someone last night said on cnn if it happened here they wouldnt be in jail. There has to be probable cause, and they implied there was simply suspicion (atleast thats what aruban govt is saying). Im not saying they are innocent. Im just saying that I prferably would like to see someone held on something more then pure suspicion. That leaves alot of room for false arrest (again not saying in this case but in general look at the security guards for instance). As a citizen in our country I am GLAD they dont just get to go and arrest someone on pure suspicion. JMO
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Charmz
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« Reply #935 on: June 25, 2005, 08:48:46 AM »

Quote from: "MsPooh"
Haven't I seen a  post on here about aruban laws, that if things are leaked concerning the investigation that the whole case can be thrown out?Maybe we should be glad in the fact that they aren't letting anything get out that has come out in forensic testing and so on that could harm the case.We are just used to a pretty quick outcome in most cases and knowing most of the information they gather as it comes out.


Precisly.  We know squat! The news hounds have gotton it wrong so many times before...  I just don't believe murder unless it is a bona-fide, confession, forensics or a body.

Plus, why would Aruban officials leak that it was murder?  Other than to get closure?
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Charmz
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« Reply #936 on: June 25, 2005, 08:50:07 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Im actually more greatful now to be an american then before. Someone last night said on cnn if it happened here they wouldnt be in jail. There has to be probable cause, and they implied there was simply suspicion (atleast thats what aruban govt is saying). Im not saying they are innocent. Im just saying that I prferably would like to see someone held on something more then pure suspicion. That leaves alot of room for false arrest (again not saying in this case but in general look at the security guards for instance). As a citizen in our country I am GLAD they dont just get to go and arrest someone on pure suspicion. JMO



I couldn't agree with you more!
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RB
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« Reply #937 on: June 25, 2005, 08:50:09 AM »

This thread has been locked.  Please continue discussion here:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=335
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