RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05

[Getagrip]

Who they blamed it on is immaterial, the fact that they felt the need to concoct an alibi implicated them.  Then on top of that they changed the story 3 times. Bottom line, innocent people dont concoct stories and one of the telltale signs of crimincal involvement is the changing of stories of the parties involved with the crime itself.

They (brothers) changed once, Joran changed to: I went home first, then OOPS they told the truth...okay it was me alone with Natalie at the beach.

let me correct you on the number of story changes.

We dropped her off at hotel inn and security guards walked up to her
changed to:
We dropped joran and her off at the marriott:
added:
I called Satish to pick me up and I left her at the marrott:
changed to
Nope it was Deepak that picked me up at the marriott:
changed to
I was with her at the beach alone.

You are mistaken....

Care to correct her then?  Seems like the correct change of stories (as reported) to me.

well if you are being reported to, then I guess you know the truth.

Ooh! Sarcasm from WW. Enlighten me as to how the reported chain of events are inaccurate. Really, I'm not being sarcastic.

[WonderWoman]

2nd time of asking- did anyone see Larry King tonight?  there was a teenage boy w/dark hair reporting Natalee asked (presumably at the HI casino) if Joran was going to be at C&C's later that night?  was he from MBHS?  they showed a 15 second clip of the boy and never said another word about it.  didn't see a name for him on screen.  thanks.

But don't have a name or location.

WonderWoman, I do...but I wanna wear your costume in exchange...it's non-negotiable, so please don't reply with a negatory or anything less than I want!  

OH!    

[WonderWoman]

can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.

Croes probably just sold them some X

Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.

[RazzyBerry]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

[absolut]

Enough posts about the costume exchange. We have Chit Chat forum Use it.

[Whitney]

Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.

They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.

nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!

[RazzyBerry]

Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.

They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.

nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!

So that means without a body they can be charged.  I hope thats what it means.

[ScubaSteve]

My theory (fairly vague)

Croes involvement is drug related.  The boys contact him say something along the lines of "hey theres this cute girl we met in the casino who we want for tongiht hook us up with ..."

I believe either all 3 or at least 2 of the boys were directly involved with the death.  If it was just JVS, when combined the brothers would have strong enough stories to be released, which isnt the case.  Either one of the brothers were involved and the other keeps quiet to save his brother, or both were in on it.

They leave the bar with Natalee... she is raped by not just JVS but at least one of the brothers as well.. if not then why would the brothers even bother if they werent getting anything out of it?

She goes unconscious at some point.. JVS and company panic throw her in the car and drive to the VS house to  find PVS for help (remember he is the legal expert.. they would go to him for advice before the police in a scenerio like this)
** also.. there is no way Joran was alone.. unless he walked home which some say is a longg walk...there is also no way PVS picked him up.. there would be a phone record and PVS would be arressted a lot sooner than a month into the case... only possible way Joran got home (other then walking) is the Kapoles..


They explain the story to PVS, he knows they would be found guilty so he takes measures to insure their innocence in the court.  Helps them dispose of the body so that it will never be found.  Councels them on what to be prepared for ( long interrogations, temporary imprisonment, etc.)  And then tells them that if they don't turn on each other and continue to give the police the run around (perhaps he even gave them a list of conflicting stories to tell after a set ammount of time) for the next 3 months or so.. then they will be freed by default.... if they cooperate with the police.. they won't be free for the next 20 years....


IMO

[Getagrip]

Inspector Director:

You really have no idea how much evidence the police have right now, just because there is no body doesnt mean the police dont have plenty of evidence.  You better believe they have something to arrest a local judge and continue holding him.  

and that comment "something bad happened"  - people keep forgetting this comment.  this was made by someone probably one of the brothers.  They are probably pounding JVDS regarding it...and hes not breaking.

They better have some evidence, and hopefully the searchers find a body because if Daddy and Son stay quiet...and there's no evidence, body or confession...they'll walk.

Note even the legal authorities in Aruba can answer the question about conviction without a body.  They'll walk.

nancy_drew only speaks what is known, now....and that is, absent other evidence, to quote: "if Daddy and Son stay quient..."

...reminding, that only one case has ever been convicted on a murder charge in the history of Netherlandic jurisprudence where there's NOT been a corpus, at the time of trial....learned that on FOX TV!

So that means without a body they can be charged.  I hope thats what it means.

Yes, with a body, even at this late stage, I'm pretty sure they can gain some forensics or maybe even break the suspects into confession.

In the end, that's all I really hope for...for Natalee to be found, to bring some kind of closure to her parents.

[inspector_detector]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

[Getagrip]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

LOL! You're saying that when a girl's tipsy or intoxicated she's 'in the mood'? I beg to differ.

He may have overpowered her with his size, but that wouldn't stop her from screaming...thus Razzy's theory of suffocation/strangulation.

[RazzyBerry]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5

[inspector_detector]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

LOL! You're saying that when a girl's tipsy or intoxicated she's 'in the mood'? I beg to differ.

He may have overpowered her with his size, but that wouldn't stop her from screaming...thus Razzy's theory of suffocation/strangulation.

Then his father helped him to dispose of the body, right. Sorry I'm not buying that one.

[nancy_drew]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

I agree...I've always said this was a simple crime. Hormones and someone without personal controls.

Are you optimistic about the Texas search team?  Is this key to finding her body...if it can be found?

[Getagrip]

My theory (fairly vague)

Croes involvement is drug related.  The boys contact him say something along the lines of "hey theres this cute girl we met in the casino who we want for tongiht hook us up with ..."

I believe either all 3 or at least 2 of the boys were directly involved with the death.  If it was just JVS, when combined the brothers would have strong enough stories to be released, which isnt the case.  Either one of the brothers were involved and the other keeps quiet to save his brother, or both where in on it.

They leave the bar with Natalee... she is raped by not just JVS but at least one of the brothers as well.. if not then why would the brothers even bother if they werent getting anything out of it?

She goes unconscious at some point.. JVS and company panic throw her in the car and drive to the VS house to  find PVS for help (remember he is the legal expert.. they would go to him for advice before the police in a scenerio like this)

They explain the story to him, he knows they would be found guilty so he takes measures to insure their innocence in the court.  Helps them dispose of the body so that it will never be found.  Councels them on what to be prepared for ( long interrogations, temporary imprisonment, etc.)  And then tells them that if they don't turn on each other and continue to give the police the run around (perhaps he even gave them a list of conflicting stories to tell after a set ammount of time) for the next 3 months or so.. then they will be freed by default.... if they cooperate with the police.. they won't be free for the next 20 years....


IMO

Steve, that's actually another possibility within the possible scenarios I posted above...that the brothers are actually implicated in raping her, and are pointing the finger at Joran to get a get-out-of-jail-free card. If they stay consistent with the story of dropping N & J off at the Marriott beach, not only do they NOT implicate themselves, but they also are putting a roadblock in the investigation, since it becomes difficult figuring out a scenario where they are not involved.

If they could all just tell the truth and face the music (if such is the case) *sigh*

[inspector_detector]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5

So are we allowed to make bets in here?

[Getagrip]

Razzy:

What about the use of a date rape drug?  Possible?  How do you think she died?

I dont think they had to use the drug. I think she willinging went in the car.  If she was on the date rape drug I doubt her friends would have let her go anywhere because she would not have been in a very stable state of mind.  If youve ever seen someone on this stuff, they are totally out of thier mind.  I think the murder was caused by JVDS getting too rough with Natalie and she was probably not wanting to have intercourse but maybe was ok with making out and Joran went too far.  I dont think her death was a overdose, it was something physcially brutal. Covering her mouth so she cant scream and suffociating, or strangulation.

Joran is 6'4"? and Natalee is 110lbs? I'm sure he could force her to have sex without killing her. Besides from all accounts she was drinking and "in the mood"...

And robert Chambers the Preppy Murder case of jennifer Levine was twice the size of his victim, but he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.  Your size reference bears no validity to him accidently killing her. It actually adds to the theory.  Hes 6'5

So are we allowed to make bets in here?

All my money on Razzy! (oh wait,  I forgot about Nancy..she makes a lot of sense too).

[nancy_drew]

Razzy:

I don't understand your comments about Chambers?

he also killed his little victim in self defense for consenual sex.

[absolut]

The betting conversation would probably come across as crass and heartless to both the victim's friends and family as well as the suspects.

[nancy_drew]

can't make it until 2 tonight.....

Let us say a pray for Natalee,,,and her family...and also the others that are involved.  Even the ones incarcerated and the ones that may be brought in,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Just a thought,,,,Could Croes have helped J n P out of a bad situation.

Croes probably just sold them some X

Just Joran cause the other 2 are innocent after dropping JVDS and Natalee at Mariott beach.

I imagine the phone call was from Deepak to Croes around 10, he left work a bit early, per Jorans request.

Where did you get that WW?  Never heard that change in the timeline? [/i]