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Author Topic: RBN # 23 - Evening 6/24/05- Early Morning 6/25/05  (Read 184090 times)
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sandy
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« Reply #900 on: June 25, 2005, 08:24:16 AM »

[quote
I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point![/quote]

But maybe innocent people who are young and don't know how serious the situation is and are already caught out for leaving home after curfew - and think she is going to turn up after a few days in a crack housem anyway - maybe they tell a neat little lie thinking it will take the heat off them and everything will be OK in a short while anyway - then, a week later they get arrested and have to stick with that lie.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #901 on: June 25, 2005, 08:25:17 AM »

Quote from: "RichinTx"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "waitingtoknow"
I can not find a link....but the ransom RUMOR was posted in riehlworldview and copied and pasted to Scared Monkeys...

What it said was, that the mayor of Birmingham informed his barber that a large ransom had been paid to kidnappers and that the Holloway/Twitty family was just waiting for them to turn over Natalee...the person who posted it is the niece of the barber...so she said

don't know if it is true...but really makes you wonder...with all the rumors (Natalee being taken against her will near the beach by 2 guys, this ransom rumor, the Dairio guy saying he had ppl following cars and saying that Natalee was being hidden from house to house while they try to get her off the island, rumor that the Lorenzo guy that was questioned and released had a basement and that Natalee at one point was being held there..)...these are just a few...but, maybe JUST MAYBE one of them is true....dunno!!



Theres been nothing on riehl world about a ransom at all.
It was not posted by Dan...but by a poster in the forum....just a couple days ago (now I could be totally losing my mind...but I KNOW that it was posted either there or here at Scared Monkeys)


Unless the site owner like Dan posted the information himself I wouldnt put much stock into it because anyone that knows about a ransom isnt going to risk Natalies life on a blog.


Yes, because everyone that posts on blogs has good common sense..
[Dr. Evil] Rrrrrriiiiiiiiigghtt[/Dr. Evil]


By the Twitty/Holloway's own admissions, they have been ready to pay any ransom, (and almost did pay a ransom for the wrong girl after being mislead) and said should she be in a crackhouse ( based on bros kalpoe's statements) or anywhere, they were willing to get her and get her home. This is just another twist on the truth turned rumor/lie, some have grasped onto for one reason or another.
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tkubi7
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« Reply #902 on: June 25, 2005, 08:26:33 AM »

I have been glued to this computer for days now, almost to the point of divorce. I have listened to many theories and opinions as well as forming those of my one. The one constant that has stood out with me is Beth Halloway-Twitty. She is the epitome of a mother. She is the hero in all of this tragedy. With her unrelenting love for her daughter and her stoic resolve to bring her daughter home, she has somehow gone on day after day and managed to draw the attention of the world to this matter. She stops at nothing and will let nothing deter her. She refuses to crumble and rejects defeat. Some call it a failure to face reality, some say it's a self rightous move to protect her own reputation. I feel, after looking into her eyes during an interview, that BHT is the mother that puts NOTHING before her children. Her pain is secondary. I have watched these days take a toll on her and I just want to say Beth....You are my hero.
I pray for Natalees return and strength for the family through the days ahead.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #903 on: June 25, 2005, 08:27:20 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.


Alot of people are trying to compile theories by vearing off path and saying yea but what if, yea but what if.  If you think with a logical investigative mind the clues keep spinning right back to Joran.  He pointed to the guards, it spun right back to him, he lied about where they dropped her off, it came right back to him.  He was last with her, he lied about where he was and he wanted his friends to create a false alibi.  when they were arrested they balked at the story.  Even after they admitted they didnt drop her off at the holiday inn joran was still creating false stories.
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momto5
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« Reply #904 on: June 25, 2005, 08:27:41 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Mornin all, here is a cup of coffee, cream and sugar available

I have been reading and one thing stuck out in my mind I saw. The last person seen with a missing person is not necc. a suspect according to my friend, WW.

But , WW's coffee shop patrons' theory was the last person/persons seen with a missing person ARE logical suspects. I concur, until proven different. I offer joran was not suspect at first. Only in the next day or 2 when the films were reveiwed from HI, and peripheral witnesses examined, did it come to light something in joran's and the bros kalpoe's story was amiss. This lead to the arrests 10 days later.


She offered several examples, I offer Susan Smith, 17-year-old Milagro Cunningham--who hid a girl in dumpster, Dahmer, Bundy. I am in no way comparing these people/killers to joran, but they all saw their victims last--and appeared to not be the "suspect" until further police work was done. Even with the history some of them had.

Morning North Kackalacky girl. Im in NC also. Ill take some coffee and offer you a blueberry muffin!
I posted earlier my cousin was missing for a yr and there was suspicion his friends did something to him etc etc. He was supposed to be at their place and what not. They were drunk etc etc. Anyway turned out he had crashed his car and sadly passed away and had been there for the whole yr. The thing is his friends NEVER changed their story or lied about it. I cant get passed the fact these guys have lied from day 1. even if the story the brothers are telling now is true, still why lie to begin with?
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #905 on: June 25, 2005, 08:28:16 AM »

Quote from: "tkubi7"
I have been glued to this computer for days now, almost to the point of divorce. I have listened to many theories and opinions as well as forming those of my one. The one constant that has stood out with me is Beth Halloway-Twitty. She is the epitome of a mother. She is the hero in all of this tragedy. With her unrelenting love for her daughter and her stoic resolve to bring her daughter home, she has somehow gone on day after day and managed to draw the attention of the world to this matter. She stops at nothing and will let nothing deter her. She refuses to crumble and rejects defeat. Some call it a failure to face reality, some say it's a self rightous move to protect her own reputation. I feel, after looking into her eyes during an interview, that BHT is the mother that puts NOTHING before her children. Her pain is secondary. I have watched these days take a toll on her and I just want to say Beth....You are my hero.
I pray for Natalees return and strength for the family through the days ahead.


I do as well! Sad  Sad  for Beth but hoping for a miracle at the same time.
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Charmz
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« Reply #906 on: June 25, 2005, 08:28:27 AM »

At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #907 on: June 25, 2005, 08:28:31 AM »

Quote from: "sandy"
[quote
I totally agree with you on this....there is NO reason to lie and make up stories if this had been the case. Good point

But maybe innocent people who are young and don't know how serious the situation is and are already caught out for leaving home after curfew - and think she is going to turn up after a few days in a crack housem anyway - maybe they tell a neat little lie thinking it will take the heat off them and everything will be OK in a short while anyway - then, a week later they get arrested and have to stick with that lie.
'

So they lied to cover up a murder so they wouldnt get put on restriction. ok.
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MsPooh
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« Reply #908 on: June 25, 2005, 08:29:26 AM »

I know from being a mom that my kids have lied to me thinking that it would be all cut and dried all tied up with a little bow on top,and I have had to go around the world to get the truth out of them, they think they are smarter than me ha! granted it has never been for anything as serious as this, but being mom they expect us to love them no matter what and we definetly do that no matter how mad we get at them at times.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #909 on: June 25, 2005, 08:30:18 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.
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momto5
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« Reply #910 on: June 25, 2005, 08:30:38 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.
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Charmz
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« Reply #911 on: June 25, 2005, 08:34:51 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.
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sandy
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« Reply #912 on: June 25, 2005, 08:35:25 AM »

Premeditated also applies to a case where the victim has been drugged in advance.
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Charmz
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« Reply #913 on: June 25, 2005, 08:36:13 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.


That makes some sense.  I just can't see Nat's Mom going for that without more concrete proof.  My feeling is Aruba wants Beth off the Island and declaring a supposed murder gives some closure so other people will move on.
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sandy
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« Reply #914 on: June 25, 2005, 08:37:35 AM »

Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too
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RB
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« Reply #915 on: June 25, 2005, 08:37:43 AM »

I will be opening a fresh thread for you in about 10 minutes.  Just wanted to give you the heads up Smile
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MsPooh
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« Reply #916 on: June 25, 2005, 08:38:46 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.


Key word here for me is probably, I take this to mean that they have probable cause to state this based on what the boys have said..but there is no body and no proof that she has been murdered..if that is the case the odds are probable that she is alive, this is the most confusing case that I have been wrapped up with in a very long time.Until we see her come home one way or another  the probability factor is very high for anything.I
feel that LE will say anything at this point to make it look like they are working very hard to solve this case, which they probably are.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #917 on: June 25, 2005, 08:38:50 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  

Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I guess you missed the fox news broadcast stating Aruban authorities have said she has probably been murdered.



Yes, I did.  But my point is still valid.  The comment is regarding why they are defining "murder" without a body.  Basically, without evidence of any kind.


What makes you think they dont have any evidence.  just because we dont know what it is doesnt mean there isnt any.  They have to have pretty good reason to hold 5 people including a judge without any evidence.
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Charmz
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« Reply #918 on: June 25, 2005, 08:38:53 AM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Momto5 - we don't know whether or not they have evidence of murder - from Momto5too


Exactly, the largest indicator, a body.  That is missing.  If they have a confession of murder.  Then it would be different.
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momto5
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« Reply #919 on: June 25, 2005, 08:38:59 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "Charmz"
At this point in time, without a body.  Aruba wants this to go away.  Possibly if they declare that she is dead, albeit without a body.  It will start the turning process and start rounding another corner.  If she is constantly thought of as alive, the pressure stays on them to find her, alive.

I am holding out for alive.  The charges or whatever they are, are "Pre-meditated".  That is very bothersome.  Pre-meditated "kidnapping" is more likely than these boys to "premeditate" a murder.  Does not seem like that is possible. Did they decide a couple days ago to abduct her, rape her and then kill her?  Why?  What do the boys gain by a "premeditated" murder.  Human Traficking or "sex" seems more plausible than the murder.


I think last night someone clarfied why. They said that if someone dies in a commision of a crime that was planned (IE rape and kidnapping) even if it is accidental it is charged as premeditated murder. So in other words, if they took her knowing they were going to rape her, or she went unwillingly or didnt let her go when she asked then died even accidentally, itd still be considered premeditated murder.


That makes some sense.  I just can't see Nat's Mom going for that without more concrete proof.  My feeling is Aruba wants Beth off the Island and declaring a supposed murder gives some closure so other people will move on.

Oh I am sure they want Beth and her family to go home. As long as she is there I think she has shown she will continue to be on the news and draw attention to her daughter. The only way she is leaving is with Natalee dead or alive. Their best bet is to try and find her daughter. Otherwise I simply dont see her willingly leaving that island.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
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