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Author Topic: RBN #24 6/25/05 Daytime  (Read 212333 times)
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Tila_Bean
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« Reply #300 on: June 25, 2005, 11:13:37 AM »

Good afternoon Very Happy .  Any news on the search team?  Sorry if this has been covered already.  I just logged in. Very Happy
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Shellbell
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« Reply #301 on: June 25, 2005, 11:14:44 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Joran didn't have to do with what?  What did Joran do after he left the club with Natalee and the Kalpoes?  I don't know, you don't know.

 Maybe Joran did not do anythng more than have Natalee pass out on him.  He left her there  She never showed up at her hotel room and nobody who is talking noticed until the next morning.  

Joran was embarrassed and lied.   He would have been better off not saying anything when confronted by the cops and the family.  Our little story would have been neater.  I would say Joran has plenty of reason to lie, since he lied in the beginning and was caught out.  we don't know how many story changes there have been.  We have no access to the investigative file.  

For me, it is hard to imagine a scenario in which Joran would kill Natalee by himself.  Murder is just too extreme for the imaginable circumstances involving Natalee and Joran alone.  Either it was an accident, or something happend to Natalee after Joran left.  Joran is under arrest and under intense pressure to confess a crime he may not have committed.  The cops are not looking for the truth, but a confession.  If Joran did not do anything to Natalee he can't confess, so he has to keep feeding the cops stories.  That is the same thing a captured military person would do to avoid revealing sensitive information  The Arubans desperately need to solve the crime and have already rushed to judge the wrong guys once.  Absent a body and evidence, they could be grasping at straws again and the stakes are now much higher.  

There is a logical explanation for this but it is not that Joran killed her and then he and others disposed of her body to cover it up.  It could have happend that way but it would not make sense.


Thats a very touching story, but Joran killed natalie, lied to authorities 3times and asked his friends to help substantiate a false alibi.  Try again.


I dont buy that.
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arrabba
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« Reply #302 on: June 25, 2005, 11:14:44 AM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Are we focusing too much attention on natalee's disappearance?  Useless-knowledge.com thinks so.

http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/june/article378.html



From useless knowledge:  

Fox News doesn't need to issue a "FOX News Alert" every time Natalee's mom sneezes.
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arubagirl
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« Reply #303 on: June 25, 2005, 11:14:48 AM »

Klaassend, I was referring to the "confession" that didn't happen 2 weeks ago. Sorry for the confusion

Clev, there is a dump, it's by car, you haul your stuff there, it's open 24/7, a guard comes, takes down your car number and the district you say you're from (i.e. Tanki Leendert, Santa Cruz, Paradera, etc.) and will guide you to which container you throw your stuff in, will stand there as you do and then you can go.

I forgot who asked, but I don't know if the TX team searched behind the Int. School of AUA, but I think the refinary is directly behind, isn't it?
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columbo
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« Reply #304 on: June 25, 2005, 11:14:59 AM »

Quote from: "MominTN"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "columbo"
<<<<dublin: you start out with an unproven assertion that joran and father went to casinos together. we have no source confirmation on that. >>>>

It was reported on Greta's show last night that father and son were at the Holiday Inn casino TOGETHER when Joran first met Natalee.


odd, i did not hear that, must have dozed off.  did greta ask why v/ sloots  had told her something else in her interview with them?


I don't remember hearing Greta ask PVDS if he saw Natalee in the casino or if he was even there.  Why didn't she ask him?  This is odd.


She didn't ask PVDS. Greta reported this while she was talking to O'Reilly or Hannity. She stated the boy and father were seen at the HI casino together. Perhaps Greta is wrong, I seem to remember hearing that PVDS was returning from a trip to Holland that day? Maybe PVDS told Greta and Beth in the interview we didn't see? Maybe that's why PVDS was arrested....his story didn't match. He's either on a flight returning home or at the HI casino. Maybe that is why Beth said PVDS proved her suspicion that he was involved with Natalee's disappearance.
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RB
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« Reply #305 on: June 25, 2005, 11:15:26 AM »

It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?
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richandfamous
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« Reply #306 on: June 25, 2005, 11:16:50 AM »

Quote
Actually in California you are always innocent no matter what.



good one!  Laughing
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"Life ain't hard, just get a job and don't kill anybody."  by richandfamous
Shellbell
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« Reply #307 on: June 25, 2005, 11:17:30 AM »

What was interesting to me is that the brothers could not see who was in the cell next to them.  That is why they didn't know who the guys were.  Yet mickey stated they didnt recognize him.
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CancunMole
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« Reply #308 on: June 25, 2005, 11:17:39 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "columbo"
<<<<dublin: you start out with an unproven assertion that joran and father went to casinos together. we have no source confirmation on that. >>>>

It was reported on Greta's show last night that father and son were at the Holiday Inn casino TOGETHER when Joran first met Natalee.


odd, i did not hear that, must have dozed off.  did greta ask why v/ sloots  had told her something else in her interview with them?


I did hear Greta say that she had gone over the PvdS interviews (the one that wasn't aired too it sounded like) and said she couldn't figure out what He'd said that caused him to be picked up and detained.
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arrabba
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« Reply #309 on: June 25, 2005, 11:18:27 AM »

There was a rumor from an Aruban who played tennis with Joran that he bragged about the number of women he had sex with after using the date rape drug.
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #310 on: June 25, 2005, 11:18:47 AM »

Razzy Dazzle!!!!

You're still here? Uhhhhhhhhhh, you've been here all night since we had our last little visit? Hmmmmmmmm  I'm just pouring my first cuppa French Roast.

You're gonna stay up until they find her?  Now that's a rather manic statement.

I do appreciate you showing up, you're the first challening, interesting conversation I've had in days on this forum. Everyone here is grealt...but, 90% of what's discussed is pure fantasy and doesn't look anything like a real investigators notebook!

So what's shakin' today?  I'm going to worry about your responses now that you're going without sleep. What's THAT all about?

~Nancy
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Shellbell
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« Reply #311 on: June 25, 2005, 11:19:04 AM »

Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


I wouldnt.  Think they will look like loose girls.  The 2 long term gf's he had should.
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Professor
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« Reply #312 on: June 25, 2005, 11:19:17 AM »

Every day, I become more firmly convinced that Joran van der Sloot is a narcissist and budding sociopath, and that his ideal crime is to go to Carlos and Charlies on the night before a group is supposed to head back to the U. S., slip a girl (victim of opportunity) a date rape drug, and have a cheap date. I believe that something went wrong. Maybe he killed her. Maybe she OD'd. Either way, it would be consistent with the narcissistic or sociopathic personality.

Here's how he appears to line up with the classical profile of the narcissist or sociopath. Please. If you are not interested, skip over this. And it you do read it, please don't remind me that much of it is based upon hearsay and speculation. Of course, it is. I know that.

A narcissist is usually the life of the party.

(Check the pictures of the parties Joran attended. He is always the center of attention. The life of the party.)

He/she makes superficial friendships easily, and is skillful at manipulating other people to get what he/she wants.

(Mommy, Mommy, if you hadn’t gone away to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house. Interview of Anita and Paulus, by Greta van Susteren.)

He/she lives behind a mask, and can charming and even charismatic, when he/she chooses to be.

(Charming with the girls from MBHS, arrogant with the mother of Natalee.)

He/she is vain and extremely careful about personal grooming and cleanliness.

(Check the party pictures. Always impeccably dressed, even when partying. Has a preference for plaid shirts. Mother takes clean sheets to him, while he is in prison.)

Narcissists are normally above average in intelligence. They tend to be outstanding students, and excel in many areas, such as athletics and business.

(Fits Joran to a tee.)

The narcissist bends the rules. He/she knows the difference between right and wrong, but does not care, as long as he/she is not caught. He/she is skillful at not getting caught. He/she can be quite brutal or ruthless, but only when no one is looking. He/she sees other people almost as inanimate objects, to be manipulated.

(Rumor has it that Joran brags about his sexual conquests. Brags about using a date-rape drug.)

Narcissists are upwardly mobile, as a group, and seldom end up in therapy. It is usually the co-worker, spouse, or other family member who ends up in therapy. One of the reasons that the narcissist seldom ends up in therapy is because he/she is skillful at manipulating others, skillful at getting his/her own way, and because he/she not feel remorse for the pain inflicted on others.

(On the night that the Twittys first questioned Joran at his home, he pounded his chest and asked “What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?” No sign of remorse. The same with the father, Paulus. At minimum, you would have expected the van der Sloots to show empathy over a missing girl.)

The narcissist normally comes from a narcissistic family. One telltale sign of a narcissistic family is one that is very permissive, and which feels that their son/daughter can do no wrong.

(Seventeen years old. Hangs out in casinos, even on school nights. When asked if Joran drank alcohol and did drugs, his mother said, “Oh, no. He doesn’t do drugs.” When Joran brutalized a younger brother, he was sent off to a YOGA AND MEDITATION class (sic), to help him control his aggression.)

Another telltale sign of a narcissistic family is a mother who collects a dossier on possible mates for her son/daughter, and finds that none of them are good enough. ( ? )

Of course, the extreme form of narcissism is the sociopath. Psychologists used to call them psychopaths, but they now call them sociopaths, because there is no psychosis involved. These people are not “crazy,” in the clinical sense. They do not suffer delusions, and they are in complete control of their faculties. They are entirely "normal," except that they feel no remorse for the pain inflicted upon others.

(Joran has finally graduated, and is now a full-fledged sociopath. When told that his father had also been arrested, he merely said, “I’m not surprised.” Now, that’s one cool cucumber.)
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sandy
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« Reply #313 on: June 25, 2005, 11:19:31 AM »

Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


Not if my parents told me to keep out of this
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iquitos
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« Reply #314 on: June 25, 2005, 11:19:39 AM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "iquitos"
last time i checked, there is no known correlation between dirty dancing and murder.


Iquitos - I agree.  I think people are trying to piece together all the information they know of Joran and paint a picture of his character.  There seems to have a wide range of attributes:

- sneaks out at night
- good athlete
- party boy
- honors student
- gambler
- wonderful son
- underage drinking


you are correct that it is fair to try to establish a facutal profile on Joran as long as it is objective and does not personalize and demonize to support the foregone conclusion that he is guilty as hell.  

i still don't think underage drinking is a big issue, if proven.  he is a month shy of 18.  the whole mb delegation was in c&c almost three years under the us drinking age of 21.  this is more of a social norm than a legal issue anyway.  some mountain brook parents alolowed their kids to go on an all inclusive tour (free booze too) to a party island probably because they don't really think people should have to wait until 21.  the european approach to drinking is somewhat different.  and by the way, what evidence do we have of Joran's drinking habits?  lots of kids go to clubs for the entertainment and never touch a drop.  there may be a higher correlation between drinking and murder but we have no reason to beleive Joran was drunk.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #315 on: June 25, 2005, 11:19:54 AM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy Dazzle!!!!

You're still here? Uhhhhhhhhhh, you've been here all night since we had our last little visit? Hmmmmmmmm  I'm just pouring my first cuppa French Roast.

You're gonna stay up until they find her?  Now that's a rather manic statement.

I do appreciate you showing up, you're the first challening, interesting conversation I've had in days on this forum. Everyone here is grealt...but, 90% of what's discussed is pure fantasy and doesn't look anything like a real investigators notebook!

So what's shakin' today?  I'm going to worry about your responses now that you're going without sleep. What's THAT all about?

~Nancy


nancy Im getting ripped to shreads.  Im not allowed to say what I think because Fox news hasnt reported it yet.  Please help me.
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RB
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« Reply #316 on: June 25, 2005, 11:20:34 AM »

I understand, Shell.  I responded similiarly to absolut who told me that the comments on JVS tickle page looked to be made by girls he'd been with or known:  both on and off the island. I wonder where they are now...
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Dublin
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« Reply #317 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:05 AM »

The full transcript of the interview with Ramirez is on the Fox website under Greta's blogsite.

Quote
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where your boys met up with Joran?

RAMIREZ: OK, I know that Deepak was working that day. And normally, he works, like, until 11: 30. Depends how busy is the place because it's one man running that place. If he's on that shift, he have to close.

VAN SUSTEREN: At the Internet cafe.

RAMIREZ: At the Internet cafe. So depends how if it's busy. If they paid down (ph) for some hours and they're not finished, then he just wait on them, like, it don't make any difference for 10 minutes on those things. So I assessed, like, maybe 11: 30. Maybe he's finished 11: 30. So I don't know. He told me that Joran called him and asked him that he need a lift.

VAN SUSTEREN: From the home to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know what he told him, but he just said that, Deepak I need a lift, if you can give me a lift or — and then maybe he asked him where or whatever. And why Satish is with him, because he don't go with his car to work. He love his car so much, that if it's a scratch, is a war (ph) in this house. And so he leave his car home. And like, his brother keep contacting him, What time you can pick me up, you know, like...

VAN SUSTEREN: Deepak?

RAMIREZ: Yes. Or he know his time, like, five to 11: 00 or 10 to 11: 00, something like that, he comes out. And then he sit and wait in the car for his brother.

VAN SUSTEREN: So Deepak doesn't have the car at work. He needs a ride from Satish?

RAMIREZ: No, it's his car.

VAN SUSTEREN: But — but Satish...

RAMIREZ: He don't go with his car to work. Satish drop him and bring back his car home.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So Satish is at home with Deepak's car and goes to pick up...

RAMIREZ: Pick him up every night, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

RAMIREZ: So he went there automatically. Maybe his brother said that, yes, Joran asked me for a lift, or tat-tat-tat. I don't know. And then that's why the two were together to go.

VAN SUSTEREN: So in all likelihood, we don't know for sure, but they probably picked him up at his home and then went back to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know where they reach


That is a part of it. Now you see why I'm questioning the discrepancy in the times?  If Paul came to pick up Joran at 11:00 and yet they were calling Satish for a ride at about the same time, then someone here is lying it seems.
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #318 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:11 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Razzy Dazzle!!!!

You're still here? Uhhhhhhhhhh, you've been here all night since we had our last little visit? Hmmmmmmmm  I'm just pouring my first cuppa French Roast.

You're gonna stay up until they find her?  Now that's a rather manic statement.

I do appreciate you showing up, you're the first challening, interesting conversation I've had in days on this forum. Everyone here is grealt...but, 90% of what's discussed is pure fantasy and doesn't look anything like a real investigators notebook!

So what's shakin' today?  I'm going to worry about your responses now that you're going without sleep. What's THAT all about?

~Nancy


nancy Im getting ripped to shreads.  Im not allowed to say what I think because Fox news hasnt reported it yet.  Please help me.


Where ya been all my life?  Uhhhhhhh, some don't take kindly to challenging their made for tv movies!!!
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #319 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:16 AM »

Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


There is at least one female friend of Joran's who has been interviewed. She said he was a great guy, etc. etc. Translation of interview was posted on habikos? (forgot spelling) site. Reporters have questioned neighbors and friends... some say he was a nice kid, others say he was pretty wild.
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