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Author Topic: RBN #24 6/25/05 Daytime  (Read 207438 times)
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #420 on: June 25, 2005, 12:05:35 PM »

Razzy:

I'm going to be in and out getting some stuff done today...But.....

I'd like to know more about the sociopath characteristics.  I know you're pissing some people off around here...I for one am not intimidated by your brash, confident manner. I tend to like that sassy attitude. Once I realized you've got info and training valuable to studying this case...

I'm not good at glad handing...

~Nancy
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RB
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« Reply #421 on: June 25, 2005, 12:05:40 PM »

Folks, we're rapidly filling up in here.  For those of you who arrived recently, we've asked that you to limit the quoting to no more than 2 deep to help us keep from those nasty errors we get when volume is at full tilt and my hair from being pulled out....
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Kkial
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« Reply #422 on: June 25, 2005, 12:06:54 PM »

We only have suspects that have lied..that hey went to lighthouse and dropped him at the beach,,,

His apartment seems more likely...hence Papa gets involved.
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arubagirl
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« Reply #423 on: June 25, 2005, 12:07:00 PM »

If it boils down to a question of he said / she said, a lot of Aruban girls aren't willing to report a(n attempt to) rape.

In my opinion
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #424 on: June 25, 2005, 12:07:15 PM »

From a conference on drug-induced rape:

She said that they are often quite hard to prosecute because the women (she only talked about women) because of the reporting problem, women need to come in right away but often wait a few days before reporting anything.

A common indicator that something has been slipped into someone's drink is that the person becomes impaired beyond what she has consumed and then wakes up at home, at someone else's house, or during sex. "symptoms not consistent with one or two drinks".

"Drugs are now ideal for sexual assaults." For 1-2 days afterwards, the woman may have self-doubt, "did I drink too much", confusion, memory loss, so they hesitate to report because they have zero memory or flash memories.

<snip>

"She also said that friends will testify that their friend became far more sexually aggressive than usual: "while they may appear to outsiders as the sexual aggressor, they are only reacting that way because of the drug."

http://www.erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_cat6.shtml
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CancunMole
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« Reply #425 on: June 25, 2005, 12:08:06 PM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "mehill10"
let me repeat
if dutch-bag was walking what did he do with natelee that really limits how you would get rid of a body some one had to help but the jackass might be tell the truth now he left her on the beach(what a asshole) it could be a random kidnapping and if thats the case the cops might never figure out who did it (even LE in the USA almost never catch people that they can not conect to a case )but we are still back to if dutch-bag didn't do something to her WHY ALL THE LIES?


Greta commented that the possibility of being victimized twice on the same day in Aruba is iInfinitesimal, especially with their low crime rate.  This comment supposes that Joran already committed a crime against her.


Greta also commented that it is possible that Joran did leave her on the beach and that NH ran into someone else who "grabbed her up".
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Professor
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« Reply #426 on: June 25, 2005, 12:08:15 PM »

Quote from: "Dallas Also"
Quote from: "Professor"
Not only do I think Joran is involved in this crime, I believe he's done it before, because this time he was really bold. Think about it. What more perfect crime for the young sociopath than to use a date rape drug and take advantage of some young woman on the night before her group is supposed to return to the U. S.? A little roofie in her drink, right at closing time, and we're off to the races. Drop her off in front of her hotel, right at the door for everyone to see, and she looks like she's just drunk. She's disoriented and can't tell what happened. By the time her head clears, she's two thousand miles away and can't possibly bring charges in an Aruba court. She doesn't even speak the language. And besides, daddy knows all the angles, and won't let baby boy go down.

As for the victims, who is going to tell? What would be the point in telling?

A perfect crime, performed by a master.

Just a thought.


The victims will not know that they were raped.


That makes it an even more perfect crime, and add to that the fact that roofies are not detectable in the system after 72 hours. And it's ten hours before a girl's flight out, and a ten-hour plane ride, just to get home. And 2 hours before she even gets home. And already 22 hours have ticked away. But she would KNOW that SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED.
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mehill10
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« Reply #427 on: June 25, 2005, 12:08:27 PM »

I think what we are really missing is what this DJ  steve Croes really had to do with natelee being missing  
the cops an't talking
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #428 on: June 25, 2005, 12:08:48 PM »

Ive had someone slip date rape in my drink before but I was never raped so I can tell you first hand what it was like.
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iquitos
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« Reply #429 on: June 25, 2005, 12:08:59 PM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "Professor"
And not only that, but I would guess that there are young women who log onto this web site who KNOW he's done it before, and haven't told anyone.


I've read that tourists are targetted on their last day of vacation by date rape predators.  When the women go to the police the police tell them how they will need to stay in the country and it may take a long time to prosecute, blah, blah ,blah.  Basically telling the women it is easier for them to just forget about it.  Does wonders for the crime rate too.
 

arrabba:  the last night syndrome would be the same, date rape or not.  but it is specualtion.  why do we never hear any after action reports from the girls once they get home?   why has no one else come forward?  i woke up with a loose bowel and i do not remember a thing type story ... it must have been the guacamole.
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Professor
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« Reply #430 on: June 25, 2005, 12:09:39 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Ive had someone slip date rape in my drink before but I was never raped so I can tell you first hand what it was like.


Describe it.
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iquitos
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« Reply #431 on: June 25, 2005, 12:10:24 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "Dallas Also"
Quote from: "Professor"
Not only do I think Joran is involved in this crime, I believe he's done it before, because this time he was really bold. Think about it. What more perfect crime for the young sociopath than to use a date rape drug and take advantage of some young woman on the night before her group is supposed to return to the U. S.? A little roofie in her drink, right at closing time, and we're off to the races. Drop her off in front of her hotel, right at the door for everyone to see, and she looks like she's just drunk. She's disoriented and can't tell what happened. By the time her head clears, she's two thousand miles away and can't possibly bring charges in an Aruba court. She doesn't even speak the language. And besides, daddy knows all the angles, and won't let baby boy go down.

As for the victims, who is going to tell? What would be the point in telling?

A perfect crime, performed by a master.

Just a thought.


The victims will not know that they were raped.


That makes it an even more perfect crime, and add to that the fact that roofies are not detectable in the system after 72 hours. And it's ten hours before a girl's flight out, and a ten-hour plane ride, just to get home. And 2 hours before she even gets home. And already 22 hours have ticked away. But she would KNOW that SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED.


what, are they comatose on the plane?
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heartache
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« Reply #432 on: June 25, 2005, 12:10:28 PM »

and I'll bet that a lot of Arubian girls don't want to talk about the escapades that they are willing participants in. Seriously... Teenagers of today are having much different trysts than they were 20 yrs. ago. Did you know that most of them do not consider oral sex "Sex" ? That threesomes happen much more than one would think?  Ever read Maxim? The bible for teenage boys?
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #433 on: June 25, 2005, 12:11:37 PM »

Professor - Yes I agree, she would know that something bad happened.  She would walk up with memory loss.
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Shellbell
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« Reply #434 on: June 25, 2005, 12:12:50 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Ive had someone slip date rape in my drink before but I was never raped so I can tell you first hand what it was like.


I have had it in my drink also.  I had a roomate one time who had it in her drink and WAS raped.  I know what it does to you.  And FYI she didnt realize she was raped until she turned up pregnant.
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iquitos
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« Reply #435 on: June 25, 2005, 12:13:16 PM »

Quote from: "heartache"
and I'll bet that a lot of Arubian girls don't want to talk about the escapades that they are willing participants in. Seriously... Teenagers of today are having much different trysts than they were 20 yrs. ago. Did you know that most of them do not consider oral sex "Sex" ? That threesomes happen much more than one would think?  Ever read Maxim? The bible for teenage boys?


why would the they even look at the aruban girls?  they are too busy date raping exotic tourists on the last night on the island.  personally. it seems to me that there are plenty of attractive and available women on ths island to have to go to so much trouble to get laid.
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #436 on: June 25, 2005, 12:13:43 PM »

Question for the group: Is Joran strong enough to carry Natalee?

If he couldn't lift her (and it is harder to lift an unconscious person), this would be a reason he might have left her on the beach - to go get help.

I'm not saying that is what happened.  I am asking, is one strong 17-year-old able to carry an unconscious person?
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Kshe78
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« Reply #437 on: June 25, 2005, 12:14:16 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Ive had someone slip date rape in my drink before but I was never raped so I can tell you first hand what it was like.


Happened to a good friend of mine while we were on Spring Break in Panama City Beach, as well.  Luckily, there were about 25 of us on the trip, and there was no way in hell she was going anywhere with anybody.  But, I do know how it affected her.
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #438 on: June 25, 2005, 12:16:02 PM »

Quote from: "Shellbell"
...And FYI she didnt realize she was raped until she turned up pregnant.


Shellbell, thanks for that good information.

Professor, merge this into your theory then.  There could be Joran-victims in Aruba who don't know it. (since it is reported that he bragged about having done this).
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heartache
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« Reply #439 on: June 25, 2005, 12:16:21 PM »

iquitos... someone was wondering why girls from the Island haven't come forward and fingered Baby as being a "predator" My point is that it is entirely possible that Baby had nothing but willing participants. Arubian or Tourist.
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