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Author Topic: RBN #24 6/25/05 Daytime  (Read 212991 times)
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arubagirl
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« Reply #500 on: June 25, 2005, 12:56:11 PM »

mehill, if you give the drug to the person without his/her consent, I'm sure it is.
With consent, have no idea, but if the person is dead, how can you prove it either way?
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iquitos
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« Reply #501 on: June 25, 2005, 12:56:35 PM »

Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Who knows, maybe someone other than Joran slipped something in Natalee's drink. . . . it's just that she ended up with Joran at the end of the night.


yes, with the apparent island date rape epidemic it could have been anyone.  and joran and the boys were not there that long and they had no certainty that natalee would actually leave with them. or did they dope her after she agreed to go with them?  and if the thing lasts ten hours they would have had a comatose person on their hands after they finished.  no wonder joran says he left her on the beach.  the nagging question: why did no one look for her sooner?  her own male half cousins were there too.  It is interesting that in their first story they described her date rape drug like symptoms (stumbling, resisting assistance) as they dropped her at holiday inn.  why would they do that?
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #502 on: June 25, 2005, 12:57:37 PM »

Question for the MB'ers: Is Natalee (straight-A, doesn't date much, demure) in her normal personality when she rolls down the window and yells "Aruba! Aruba!" as she is driving away from CnC in the brothers' car?
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #503 on: June 25, 2005, 12:57:41 PM »

Look- he could have raped many girls without anyone's knowledge and they can't come forward because they don't REMEMBER!  That's the horror of a date rape drug.  At best, they'll have "fuzzy memories" and be back in the states. What are they going to do then?
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coco
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« Reply #504 on: June 25, 2005, 12:57:51 PM »

Pawley's Island Girl - thank you for the timeline and reminding us that we know *very* little from reliable sources.

I've been just reading here this morning and I'm astonished at the degree to which people's imaginations run wild.

And with so much focus on these bizarre scenarios, it may well be that the authorities are so focused on feeding the US/media pressure to save tourism that they have got it wrong once again.

I keep thinking that I should go back and read the postings from the early days when the security guards were arrested wrongly - I'll be folks had them convicted too.
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georgiablues
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« Reply #505 on: June 25, 2005, 12:57:51 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
 
I'm not confusing the two.  However, we've possibly got a situation where Joran got too rough with Natalee in a consensual act of sex...or, he raped her when she refused to go beyond kissing and a little touching.  In the Chambers case he got rough and violent...

What would you call getting rough during consensual sex?  Rape?  Nah...just plain murder, doncha think?

Joran is a big guy...Natalee is petite.


No, I meant that having no trouble getting laid would not preclude rape or use of d/r drug.  They are not the same conquest.

Rough consensual sex is just that.  Rough consensual sex.
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mehill10
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« Reply #506 on: June 25, 2005, 12:58:22 PM »

Quote from: "arubagirl"
mehill, if you give the drug to the person without his/her consent, I'm sure it is.
With consent, have no idea, but if the person is dead, how can you prove it either way?

 i don't really know
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Professor
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« Reply #507 on: June 25, 2005, 12:58:30 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
There could be a thousand reasons why Joran might want to use a date-rape drug, even though there were many beautiful Aruban girls on the island (Check out the pictures. Are these girls not lovely?). And I shall not speculate on any of them. I don't know much at all about the date-rape drug, but the ladies must surely know how and when and why it is used. This is a thread I cannot follow. I am a geezer, to begin with, and do not understand the motivation of even AMERICAN youths today, let alone ARUBAN youths. And secondly, I don't think most men would understand why anyone would use such a drug.

Note: I am NOT saying that Rohypnol was used. I'm just saying that this looks like a situation in which SOMETHING OTHER THAN ROMANCE is involved.


Saying you tried the date rape drug willingly is being cool in todays world.  Not only do alot of girls willingingly have sex but they also willingly take the drug for the sport of it, like ex or coke.


Now, that I find truly shocking. Why ANY woman would put herself into that position of vulnerability is beyond me. If she wants to have healthy sex, there is nothing stopping her. But WHY would any woman want to take a drug that took away any memory of the act? I am ASTOUNDED.  But then again, I am a geezer, and come from another generation.
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Radient Orb
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« Reply #508 on: June 25, 2005, 12:58:35 PM »

Professor, I'm a geezer too and I see such an underlying substucture of designer drugs being espoused by the media, I really don't know what to think. God Forbid this PVDS was involved, I think that's where my GHB theory fizzles. Razzy was right in saying Nat was probably coherent although slightly drunk.
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iquitos
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« Reply #509 on: June 25, 2005, 12:59:37 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
One of the reasons I have a problem with a date rape drug being used is I don't think Joran worried about getting laid....he was cute, charming, smart and for all intents and purposes....a price charming.

I suspect Natalee was willing...maybe not to have intercourse...but, willing to spend time with this perceived prince charming on her last night in Aruba...a trip to the starry lit beach...little did she know halting his advances would bring on rage from him...

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, date rape drugs would be used in a situation where sexual supply and demand is scewed.

Are there any demographics, profiles, etc. on the use of date rape drugs?
 

 

thanks for the perpecive nancy



what do you mean iquitos?


i mean thanks for the perspective, point of view.  pardon the typo
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #510 on: June 25, 2005, 12:59:38 PM »

Quote from: "georgiablues"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
 
I'm not confusing the two.  However, we've possibly got a situation where Joran got too rough with Natalee in a consensual act of sex...or, he raped her when she refused to go beyond kissing and a little touching.  In the Chambers case he got rough and violent...

What would you call getting rough during consensual sex?  Rape?  Nah...just plain murder, doncha think?

Joran is a big guy...Natalee is petite.


No, I meant that having no trouble getting laid would not preclude rape or use of d/r drug.  They are not the same conquest.

Rough consensual sex is just that.  Rough consensual sex.


But, rough consensual sex that kills someone is murder...not rape.

Edited to add:  An act of sex that starts out as consenual and then she says NO in the middle...then it's forced...is also rape.  Saying NO anytime during the act is a no no.
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mehill10
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« Reply #511 on: June 25, 2005, 01:00:21 PM »

arubagirl   does anyone down there really know why the DJ steve croes was arrested
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #512 on: June 25, 2005, 01:00:23 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Pawley's Island Girl - thank you for the timeline and reminding us that we know *very* little from reliable sources.

I've been just reading here this morning and I'm astonished at the degree to which people's imaginations run wild.

And with so much focus on these bizarre scenarios, it may well be that the authorities are so focused on feeding the US/media pressure to save tourism that they have got it wrong once again.

I keep thinking that I should go back and read the postings from the early days when the security guards were arrested wrongly - I'll be folks had them convicted too.


Not for one second did I believe those guards had anything to do with it.
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batmanCJ
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« Reply #513 on: June 25, 2005, 01:00:42 PM »

Hi Arubagirl~

What is word on the island about the Texas Search group's arrival?  What are folks saying?

Thanks!
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #514 on: June 25, 2005, 01:01:16 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
and if the thing lasts ten hours they would have had a comatose person on their hands after they finished.  no wonder joran says he left her on the beach.  the nagging question: why did no one look for her sooner?  her own male half cousins were there too.  It is interesting that in their first story they described her date rape drug like symptoms (stumbling, resisting assistance) as they dropped her at holiday inn.  why would they do that?


Why are you putting the responsibility of this on her male half cousins?  They didn't give her the date rape drug. In fact, they may not have realized she had been given it. If Joran knew she had been given it, the question is WHY did he just leave her on the friggin' beach?  Why not be a gentleman and take her back to the hotel and say "ummm, she's passed out?"  

You're misdirecting responsiblity.
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #515 on: June 25, 2005, 01:02:16 PM »

Hey, fellow Geezers....drugs like X and GHB also have some more pleasant side effects like a heightened sense of affection and hallucinogenic properties, if what I read was correct.
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MominTN
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« Reply #516 on: June 25, 2005, 01:02:33 PM »

You can read about date rape drugs on allabout.com

I think if it were a simple accidental death with her having alcohol poisoning or drug overdose, then the cops would have found her body.  Especially if Joran just left her on the beach and she died.   I think her body would show bruises or strangulation or forced rape, and that is why they went to so much trouble to dispose of it.  I think they should receive more punishment because of disposing of her body and covering up their crime, not less.
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #517 on: June 25, 2005, 01:02:54 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
But WHY would any woman want to take a drug that took away any memory of the act? I am ASTOUNDED.  But then again, I am a geezer, and come from another generation.


I believe most women are given it unknowingly, and if they say otherwise it is because they are embarrassed.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #518 on: June 25, 2005, 01:03:23 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "Professor"
There could be a thousand reasons why Joran might want to use a date-rape drug, even though there were many beautiful Aruban girls on the island (Check out the pictures. Are these girls not lovely?). And I shall not speculate on any of them. I don't know much at all about the date-rape drug, but the ladies must surely know how and when and why it is used. This is a thread I cannot follow. I am a geezer, to begin with, and do not understand the motivation of even AMERICAN youths today, let alone ARUBAN youths. And secondly, I don't think most men would understand why anyone would use such a drug.

Note: I am NOT saying that Rohypnol was used. I'm just saying that this looks like a situation in which SOMETHING OTHER THAN ROMANCE is involved.


Saying you tried the date rape drug willingly is being cool in todays world.  Not only do alot of girls willingingly have sex but they also willingly take the drug for the sport of it, like ex or coke.


Now, that I find truly shocking. Why ANY woman would put herself into that position of vulnerability is beyond me. If she wants to have healthy sex, there is nothing stopping her. But WHY would any woman want to take a drug that took away any memory of the act? I am ASTOUNDED.  But then again, I am a geezer, and come from another generation.


Theres a thrill attached to having sex while under the influence of recreational drugs like ex and ghb.
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Professor
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« Reply #519 on: June 25, 2005, 01:03:28 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "batmanCJ"
Who knows, maybe someone other than Joran slipped something in Natalee's drink. . . . it's just that she ended up with Joran at the end of the night.


yes, with the apparent island date rape epidemic it could have been anyone.  and joran and the boys were not there that long and they had no certainty that natalee would actually leave with them. or did they dope her after she agreed to go with them?  and if the thing lasts ten hours they would have had a comatose person on their hands after they finished.  no wonder joran says he left her on the beach.  the nagging question: why did no one look for her sooner?  her own male half cousins were there too.  It is interesting that in their first story they described her date rape drug like symptoms (stumbling, resisting assistance) as they dropped her at holiday inn.  why would they do that?


My thoughts, exactly. Why would the three amigos describe rohypnol-like symptoms, when they described how Natalee stumbled and fell, in their original story?
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