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Author Topic: RBN #24 6/25/05 Daytime  (Read 212680 times)
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2005, 09:45:44 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Joran didn't have to do with what?  What did Joran do after he left the club with Natalee and the Kalpoes?  I don't know, you don't know.

 Maybe Joran did not do anythng more than have Natalee pass out on him.  He left her there  She never showed up at her hotel room and nobody who is talking noticed until the next morning.  

Joran was embarrassed and lied.   He would have been better off not saying anything when confronted by the cops and the family.  Our little story would have been neater.  I would say Joran has plenty of reason to lie, since he lied in the beginning and was caught out.  we don't know how many story changes there have been.  We have no access to the investigative file.  

For me, it is hard to imagine a scenario in which Joran would kill Natalee by himself.  Murder is just too extreme for the imaginable circumstances involving Natalee and Joran alone.  Either it was an accident, or something happend to Natalee after Joran left.  Joran is under arrest and under intense pressure to confess a crime he may not have committed.  The cops are not looking for the truth, but a confession.  If Joran did not do anything to Natalee he can't confess, so he has to keep feeding the cops stories.  That is the same thing a captured military person would do to avoid revealing sensitive information  The Arubans desperately need to solve the crime and have already rushed to judge the wrong guys once.  Absent a body and evidence, they could be grasping at straws again and the stakes are now much higher.  

There is a logical explanation for this but it is not that Joran killed her and then he and others disposed of her body to cover it up.  It could have happend that way but it would not make sense.


Thats a very touching story, but Joran killed natalie, lied to authorities 3times and asked his friends to help substantiate a false alibi.  Try again.
 

I do not know where you get your information.  I can't imagine where you get your insider information.  Are you the Dutch prosecutor handling the case?  Of course Joran is changing his story becasue he lied on the first try.  Too bad he was not professionally interrogated.  Then, we think, at some later time, he was finally professionally interrogated and told another story.  We don't know what that is either.  Has it changed, we do not know.  Is it the same one he told his mom?  We don't know.  

We can speculate until the cows come home, but hey, if we knew, the case would already be solved!  Oh, by the way, how did he kill her and what did he do with the body?  .

Nicely said.
I am sorry but the fact of the matter is NO ONE knows what happened. We can sit all day and speculate and come up w/ theories based on "inside sources" being reported by the media. All in all we dont even know that the source isnt a janitor who works at the police dept overhearing watercooler gossip.
I do believe that it will probably turn into a simple story and nothing outlandish, but at this point no one knows! I will reserve the right to cast judgement on any of the suspects. I will wait for facts to come out. When and if they find her (dead or alive) then maybe we might know what happened. At this point tho if shes dead not much evidence may be gained. Yes I have my theories but thats all they are.


My opinion is that shes dead and joran is directly responsible for her death.  I dont need fox news to tell me that.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2005, 09:45:44 AM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "RB"
Quote from: "arrabba"
FOX reported that some of the suspects are due in court today at 3:00, and that there will be a lot more news after that.  The Texas search team will start today.  The agreement with Aruba is gthat the search team will in no way be subsidized by Aruba.


When did this report happen?  I ask this because I'm sure we'l need to be prepared for the flood of traffic...


Within the past half hour.


I think PVDS's 48 hours are up, and they will extend that or let him go....
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RB
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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2005, 09:45:59 AM »

Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
I do not know if this made the board, but they have brought a new judge in from Holland for the 3 pm hearing. The conventional wisdom is that the present judge has heard too much evidence that the Royal Court needs fresh eyes on this case.


Woooo.  That's a big change. The whole our-civil-servant-may-be implicated has gotten some attention, has it?
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columbo
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« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2005, 09:46:26 AM »

Does anyone else find it interesting that Paul VDS was at the Holiday Inn casino when Joran first met Natalee? I don't think we knew that until last night. It could be that Dad summoned his son to meet up with Natalee at C&C's, slip her a mickey and bring her back to HIM (Paul) at the beach.
Deepak's mother said her son told her Natalee was falling asleep in the back seat. The mother also imitated this by dropping her head as though she was falling asleep.

Natalee sees the Dad at the beach, freaks out and something bad happens.

The whereabouts of Paul VDS are not known, his wife was out of town and his only alibi is he was home sleeping.

Just speculating......
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gagirl
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« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2005, 09:46:54 AM »

Greta said last night it would be the three original boys in court today. I believe.
The judge will be flown in again from Curacos.
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arrabba
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« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2005, 09:46:55 AM »

Another tidbit from FOX - they are bringing in a new judge to preside over the case.  Aruba wants to maintain impartiality and want a new judge to review whether there is enough evidence to further detain the suspects.
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MsPooh
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« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2005, 09:46:57 AM »

Quote from: "Scared-Tom"
I do not know if this made the board, but they have brought a new judge in from Holland for the 3 pm hearing. The conventional wisdom is that the present judge has heard too much evidence that the Royal Court needs fresh eyes on this case.


Thank Goodness, now maybe we will finally get somewhere!MAYBE
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MominTN
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« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2005, 09:47:13 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Joran didn't have to do with what?  What did Joran do after he left the club with Natalee and the Kalpoes?  I don't know, you don't know.

 Maybe Joran did not do anythng more than have Natalee pass out on him.  He left her there  She never showed up at her hotel room and nobody who is talking noticed until the next morning.  

Joran was embarrassed and lied.   He would have been better off not saying anything when confronted by the cops and the family.  Our little story would have been neater.  I would say Joran has plenty of reason to lie, since he lied in the beginning and was caught out.  we don't know how many story changes there have been.  We have no access to the investigative file.  

For me, it is hard to imagine a scenario in which Joran would kill Natalee by himself.  Murder is just too extreme for the imaginable circumstances involving Natalee and Joran alone.  Either it was an accident, or something happend to Natalee after Joran left.  Joran is under arrest and under intense pressure to confess a crime he may not have committed.  The cops are not looking for the truth, but a confession.  If Joran did not do anything to Natalee he can't confess, so he has to keep feeding the cops stories.  That is the same thing a captured military person would do to avoid revealing sensitive information  The Arubans desperately need to solve the crime and have already rushed to judge the wrong guys once.  Absent a body and evidence, they could be grasping at straws again and the stakes are now much higher.  

There is a logical explanation for this but it is not that Joran killed her and then he and others disposed of her body to cover it up.  It could have happend that way but it would not make sense.


Thats a very touching story, but Joran killed natalie, lied to authorities 3times and asked his friends to help substantiate a false alibi.  Try again.
 

I do not know where you get your information.  I can't imagine where you get your insider information.  Are you the Dutch prosecutor handling the case?  Of course Joran is changing his story becasue he lied on the first try.  Too bad he was not professionally interrogated.  Then, we think, at some later time, he was finally professionally interrogated and told another story.  We don't know what that is either.  Has it changed, we do not know.  Is it the same one he told his mom?  We don't know.  

We can speculate until the cows come home, but hey, if we knew, the case would already be solved!  Oh, by the way, how did he kill her and what did he do with the body?  .


Ive studied enough murder cases to know where this one is going.  He probably accidently suffocated or strangled her.


Accidental!?!?!
I have never heard of someone accidentally suffocating or strangling someone they were making out with.  If this is a common problem, I'm definitely not dating any more...lmao....

Obviously if Joran is finally telling the truth about the two of them being alone on the beach and she died, then he is a murderer.  He can make up all the excuses and stories he can come up with, but he was with her last, so we know who is responsible.

From looking at his size in pictures and his being an athlete, I'm sure he could silence her if she screamed....forever.  I think the others disposed of her body.

If these people go free, then Americans will  curtail going to Aruba on vacation.  I cannot believe they will not use lie detectors to get the truth out of these liars.  The Aruban police have been complicit in not recovering Natalee's body and they have impaired the investigation by making forensics impossible without her body.  I think lie detectors should be required when it comes to recovering a living person or their deceased body.  What if she were alive in the beginning, but because of time, is deceased now.  Then many people are responsible for not using technology in finding her.  What kind of justice system is this...that we do not value a life as much as we value prosecution of a murder?  I say use lie detectors, truth serum, anything that will find a missing person.  This is what people want and expect from law enforcement!
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DallasGirl
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« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2005, 09:47:28 AM »

sorry 'bout the spelling - insert conviction please!
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RB
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« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2005, 09:48:02 AM »

MsPooh, I think that's a double edged sword.  Won't it be something if this takes a swing in a major opposite direction and if some (maybe not all, but some) suspects are released?
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Dublin
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« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2005, 09:48:15 AM »



If this image links okay, it comes from another website that clipped images from news stories.  I think it is weird that Joran's mother is wearing such a see through blouse. Isn't that strange for someone her age?  Do you think she is trying to keep Paul home, or is it indicative of some strange relation with her son, and maybe a reason that he hates women?  Has anyone else drawn psych. conclusions on why a 17 year old would make videos of a gang rape and then sell them?  Has anyone investigated this "pimp" term that he and the brothers used to describe themselves on their websites?
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2005, 09:48:20 AM »

Quote from: "DallasGirl"
Okay, I'm coming out of lurk mode.  Amazing what a few cups of joe will make you do.
What is up with the "need a body" "don't need a body" for a convinction?  When asked yesterday evening if, under Dutch Law, a body was necessary for a convinction - G said she did not know and that all the attorneys she had spoken to on the island did not know either.
I've done a good bit of (fruitless) searching.  Did come across some International Law by the UN that said you didn't have to have a body for a convinction if the evidence you did have was enough to prove the person was dead (i.e. 5 quarts of blood at a crime scene when the human body has about 6).
Any good information out there?


there has been only one dutch case so far where a conviction was granted without a body and that was where a drug dealer admitted in a letter that he had killed this missing person.  Its not likely to convict under dutch law without a body, but not implausible if there is direct and undisputable evidence.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2005, 09:48:30 AM »

Quote from: "columbo"
Does anyone else find it interesting that Paul VDS was at the Holiday Inn casino when Joran first met Natalee?  Natalee sees the Dad at the beach, freaks out and something bad happens.

The whereabouts of Paul VDS are not known, his wife was out of town and his only alibi is he was home sleeping. Just speculating......


I believe she was drugged; it's after that things get very unclear....and this is certainly a possibility in my book.
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iquitos
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« Reply #73 on: June 25, 2005, 09:49:02 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Joran didn't have to do with what?  What did Joran do after he left the club with Natalee and the Kalpoes?  I don't know, you don't know.

 Maybe Joran did not do anythng more than have Natalee pass out on him.  He left her there  She never showed up at her hotel room and nobody who is talking noticed until the next morning.  

Joran was embarrassed and lied.   He would have been better off not saying anything when confronted by the cops and the family.  Our little story would have been neater.  I would say Joran has plenty of reason to lie, since he lied in the beginning and was caught out.  we don't know how many story changes there have been.  We have no access to the investigative file.  

For me, it is hard to imagine a scenario in which Joran would kill Natalee by himself.  Murder is just too extreme for the imaginable circumstances involving Natalee and Joran alone.  Either it was an accident, or something happend to Natalee after Joran left.  Joran is under arrest and under intense pressure to confess a crime he may not have committed.  The cops are not looking for the truth, but a confession.  If Joran did not do anything to Natalee he can't confess, so he has to keep feeding the cops stories.  That is the same thing a captured military person would do to avoid revealing sensitive information  The Arubans desperately need to solve the crime and have already rushed to judge the wrong guys once.  Absent a body and evidence, they could be grasping at straws again and the stakes are now much higher.  

There is a logical explanation for this but it is not that Joran killed her and then he and others disposed of her body to cover it up.  It could have happend that way but it would not make sense.


Thats a very touching story, but Joran killed natalie, lied to authorities 3times and asked his friends to help substantiate a false alibi.  Try again.
 

I do not know where you get your information.  I can't imagine where you get your insider information.  Are you the Dutch prosecutor handling the case?  Of course Joran is changing his story becasue he lied on the first try.  Too bad he was not professionally interrogated.  Then, we think, at some later time, he was finally professionally interrogated and told another story.  We don't know what that is either.  Has it changed, we do not know.  Is it the same one he told his mom?  We don't know.  

We can speculate until the cows come home, but hey, if we knew, the case would already be solved!  Oh, by the way, how did he kill her and what did he do with the body?  .


Ive studied enough murder cases to know where this one is going.  He probably accidently suffocated or strangled her.


KEY WORD:  accidentaly.

We can also speculate that she died of say alcohol poisoning, reaction with alcohol and another medication she was on, aspiration of vomit, drugs someone else administered before the boys showed up.
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rkymtncjngrl
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« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2005, 09:49:42 AM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "RB"
arrabba, thank you very much. Smile  Did you hear whether it will be all the suspects, or a specific select few?  And did they say who they were?


I thought they said all, but i'm not positive.  They are reporting live from Aruba this morning.  I will listen more closely to the next report and post here right away.
 I heard all 5.
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americaninaruba
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« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2005, 09:50:03 AM »

getting offt opic here but...our fellow monkey.....
DJ TAYLOR IS IN LABOR! SHE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL THIS MORNING AT ABOUT 1.45!! WISH HER LUCK W/ HER FIRST BABY!
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bendex
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« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2005, 09:50:52 AM »

With all do respect dublin , I can not see what the bluse of Mrs. Anita van der Sloot has to do with the case ?

Quote from: "Dublin"


If this image links okay, it comes from another website that clipped images from news stories.  I think it is weird that Joran's mother is wearing such a see through blouse. Isn't that strange for someone her age?  Do you think she is trying to keep Paul home, or is it indicative of some strange relation with her son, and maybe a reason that he hates women?  Has anyone else drawn psych. conclusions on why a 17 year old would make videos of a gang rape and then sell them?  Has anyone investigated this "pimp" term that he and the brothers used to describe themselves on their websites?
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RB
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« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2005, 09:51:10 AM »

Quote from: "americaninaruba"
getting offt opic here but...our fellow monkey.....
DJ TAYLOR IS IN LABOR! SHE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL THIS MORNING AT ABOUT 1.45!! WISH HER LUCK W/ HER FIRST BABY!


Thank you AIA.  Smile  How about if I create a well wishes thread for DT and everyone can post their congrats to her there?  That way she can get it when she gets back....
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2005, 09:51:49 AM »

Quote from: "Dublin"
I think it is weird that Joran's mother is wearing such a see through blouse. Isn't that strange for someone her age?  Do you think she is trying to keep Paul home, or is it indicative of some strange relation with her son, and maybe a reason that he hates women?  Has anyone else drawn psych. conclusions on why a 17 year old would make videos of a gang rape and then sell them?  Has anyone investigated this "pimp" term that he and the brothers used to describe themselves on their websites?


1.  Strange...No - it is a fabric like gauze - quite popular, and the result was not intended at all!
2.  NA
3.  No...Gangster-style lingo that is popular with teens these days.  I was quite surprised by that myself, until informed by others I am hopelessly out of date.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2005, 09:52:01 AM »

Quote from: "Dublin"


If this image links okay, it comes from another website that clipped images from news stories.  I think it is weird that Joran's mother is wearing such a see through blouse. Isn't that strange for someone her age?  Do you think she is trying to keep Paul home, or is it indicative of some strange relation with her son, and maybe a reason that he hates women?  Has anyone else drawn psych. conclusions on why a 17 year old would make videos of a gang rape and then sell them?  Has anyone investigated this "pimp" term that he and the brothers used to describe themselves on their websites?

]
Joran probably learned his behaviors from his father.  In the Greta interview Mrs VDS was said as asking her son why he was out so late on a school night and he stated Mom if you had never gone to holland I would have never went out that night.  So hes trying to shift his behavior on his mother and give her extreme guilt.  What a  nice guy he is.
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