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Author Topic: RBN #24 6/25/05 Daytime  (Read 211495 times)
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #320 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:22 AM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "arubagirl"
It was also reported that there was a confession.

Just sayin'

Sorry, just woke up.  Am I hearing that there's been a confession and yet another retraction?  Or is this a new confession?


klaasend, this is not a new story.  We were discussing how reported-news has not always been factual.  arubagirl was mentioning the case-in-point of the "confession" that was later retracted back on June 11th.
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Shellbell
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« Reply #321 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:31 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Every day, I become more firmly convinced that Joran van der Sloot is a narcissist and budding sociopath, and that his ideal crime is to go to Carlos and Charlies on the night before a group is supposed to head back to the U. S., slip a girl (victim of opportunity) a date rape drug, and have a cheap date. I believe that something went wrong. Maybe he killed her. Maybe she OD'd. Either way, it would be consistent with the narcissistic or sociopathic personality.

Here's how he appears to line up with the classical profile of the narcissist or sociopath. Please. If you are not interested, skip over this. And it you do read it, please don't remind me that much of it is based upon hearsay and speculation. Of course, it is. I know that.

A narcissist is usually the life of the party.

(Check the pictures of the parties Joran attended. He is always the center of attention. The life of the party.)

He/she makes superficial friendships easily, and is skillful at manipulating other people to get what he/she wants.

(Mommy, Mommy, if you hadn’t gone away to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house. Interview of Anita and Paulus, by Greta van Susteren.)

He/she lives behind a mask, and can charming and even charismatic, when he/she chooses to be.

(Charming with the girls from MBHS, arrogant with the mother of Natalee.)

He/she is vain and extremely careful about personal grooming and cleanliness.

(Check the party pictures. Always impeccably dressed, even when partying. Has a preference for plaid shirts. Mother takes clean sheets to him, while he is in prison.)

Narcissists are normally above average in intelligence. They tend to be outstanding students, and excel in many areas, such as athletics and business.

(Fits Joran to a tee.)

The narcissist bends the rules. He/she knows the difference between right and wrong, but does not care, as long as he/she is not caught. He/she is skillful at not getting caught. He/she can be quite brutal or ruthless, but only when no one is looking. He/she sees other people almost as inanimate objects, to be manipulated.

(Rumor has it that Joran brags about his sexual conquests. Brags about using a date-rape drug.)

Narcissists are upwardly mobile, as a group, and seldom end up in therapy. It is usually the co-worker, spouse, or other family member who ends up in therapy. One of the reasons that the narcissist seldom ends up in therapy is because he/she is skillful at manipulating others, skillful at getting his/her own way, and because he/she not feel remorse for the pain inflicted on others.

(On the night that the Twittys first questioned Joran at his home, he pounded his chest and asked “What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?” No sign of remorse. The same with the father, Paulus. At minimum, you would have expected the van der Sloots to show empathy over a missing girl.)

The narcissist normally comes from a narcissistic family. One telltale sign of a narcissistic family is one that is very permissive, and which feels that their son/daughter can do no wrong.

(Seventeen years old. Hangs out in casinos, even on school nights. When asked if Joran drank alcohol and did drugs, his mother said, “Oh, no. He doesn’t do drugs.” When Joran brutalized a younger brother, he was sent off to a YOGA AND MEDITATION class (sic), to help him control his aggression.)

Another telltale sign of a narcissistic family is a mother who collects a dossier on possible mates for her son/daughter, and finds that none of them are good enough. ( ? )

Of course, the extreme form of narcissism is the sociopath. Psychologists used to call them psychopaths, but they now call them sociopaths, because there is no psychosis involved. These people are not “crazy,” in the clinical sense. They do not suffer delusions, and they are in complete control of their faculties. They are entirely "normal," except that they feel no remorse for the pain inflicted upon others.

(Joran has finally graduated, and is now a full-fledged sociopath. When told that his father had also been arrested, he merely said, “I’m not surprised.” Now, that’s one cool cucumber.)



Now I know what was wrong with all of my exes.
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Tila_Bean
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« Reply #322 on: June 25, 2005, 11:21:42 AM »

Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


Yes I would.  I believe only one girl has spoken out about Joran and supported him on camera.  I also found it strange that we haven't heard any support coming from any of his male friends.  Where are they? Shocked
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RB
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« Reply #323 on: June 25, 2005, 11:22:04 AM »

nancy Im getting ripped to shreads. Im not allowed to say what I think because Fox news hasnt reported it yet. Please help me.

Correction:  you are not getting ripped to shreds.  Folks are trying to give you some feedback about the tone of your posts and you perceive it to be that you can't say anything.
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pawleys island girl
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« Reply #324 on: June 25, 2005, 11:22:37 AM »

Re: Dad & Joran at HI together
Source: taped last night's Greta...

In her timeline, she just said this is the casino where Nat met Joran on May 29th.  According to what Mr. VDS said yesterday, he and Joran were there gambling, at some time Mr VDS decided to go home, he left Joran there, his son doesn't drive, his son had no way of getting home, but his son was there with a bunch of friends gambling.  At about 11pm Mr. VDS got a phone call to pick up his son.  Call did not come from casino, but rather from a few blocks away at McDs.  Don't know how Joran got there, but is just a few blocks away, certainly walking distance
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iquitos
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« Reply #325 on: June 25, 2005, 11:22:47 AM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


Not if my parents told me to keep out of this


there was one on the radio yesterdy in aruba.  she spoke live, anonymously (station knows who she is), and for a long time answered questions.  conclusion: joran is a good guy and there is nothing about him that would suggest he could have done this.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #326 on: June 25, 2005, 11:24:16 AM »

I think Jorans girlfriends wont come forward because they are afraid hes going to kill them too.
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Dublin
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« Reply #327 on: June 25, 2005, 11:24:17 AM »

Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


There is at least one female friend of Joran's who has been interviewed. She said he was a great guy, etc. etc. Translation of interview was posted on habikos? (forgot spelling) site. Reporters have questioned neighbors and friends... some say he was a nice kid, others say he was pretty wild.


I think I already said there had to be a problem with him if he had to date a 13 year old.  Where were the women of his own age, or was she the only one that would put out for him?
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Tila_Bean
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« Reply #328 on: June 25, 2005, 11:25:54 AM »

Quote from: "Dublin"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
Quote from: "RB"
It's the simplest and most straightforward only if others come forward to show the guy has a history of OD'ing and raping girls. Seems to me Joran is a 17 year old wannabe, not a hard-core criminal type. Accidental death seems more likely.

I have heard rumors that Joran, as Absolut put it to me, "was a playa" and was having his pick of chicks on and off the island.  I rather looked at him like he was nuts, because that if the guy is soooo well liked, how come more women haven't come out to support him? I mean help me out here Monkey women:  if a guy you dated had this happen to him and you found him to fun, engaging, funny, etc, wouldn't you have a vocal opinion?


There is at least one female friend of Joran's who has been interviewed. She said he was a great guy, etc. etc. Translation of interview was posted on habikos? (forgot spelling) site. Reporters have questioned neighbors and friends... some say he was a nice kid, others say he was pretty wild.


I think I already said there had to be a problem with him if he had to date a 13 year old.  Where were the women of his own age, or was she the only one that would put out for him?


He dated a 13 year old?
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RB
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« Reply #329 on: June 25, 2005, 11:26:21 AM »

I think Jorans girlfriends wont come forward because they are afraid hes going to kill them too.

Or for the local girls, get hauled into the authorities for questioning.  Hard for Joran to do anything to them when he's sitting in jail....
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arubagirl
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« Reply #330 on: June 25, 2005, 11:26:53 AM »

The internet cafe closes at 10pm on Sundays. Is it logical that it would take an hour to an hour and a half to close up?
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sandy
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« Reply #331 on: June 25, 2005, 11:27:20 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I think Jorans girlfriends wont come forward because they are afraid hes going to kill them too.


At least the sound of clanking chains will give them a head start
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MominTN
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« Reply #332 on: June 25, 2005, 11:27:40 AM »

Quote from: "Curiosity"
Wow...head spinning in so many details! Ok....does anyone know how Joren got from his home after VDS Sr picked him up....to Carlos and Charlies??? How far is Carlos and Charlies from the VDS residence?? I'm asking because it is my understanding that the Kalpoe brothers were called to pick him up from C&C.....but I don't recall hearing how he got to C&C's?


Two cars were towed in from the VDS home.  Mother was out-of-town.  Why did Joran not drive himself?

When people keep talking about who picked up Joran if he murdered Natalee, is it not possible that he broke into the hut himself getting ropes and an anchor, threw her into a dingy, and disposed of her himself.  He looks strong enough to me to pick up a body by the waist or under the arms.  Remember he is alot taller and heavier than Natalee.

Then an athlete could easily jog home on the main streets.  Who would see someone after 2 in the morning?  I know men in their 50s who run for many miles every day.  I would think an athlete who is 17 would have no problem getting home before he had to leave for school.  He could run for awhile and rest, and run again...hiding if he saw headlights.  

The dad may have called his cellphone looking for him and this may be why the dad was arrested.

The others may have chatted or emailed about looking for tourist women for sex or selling drugs to tourists or even what Joran did or told them, and that might be why they were arrested.

Hopefully they looked at the pcs at the internet cafe where Deepak worked and Croes went to.  I wish they would show an interview with people there.
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iquitos
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« Reply #333 on: June 25, 2005, 11:28:20 AM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
There was a rumor from an Aruban who played tennis with Joran that he bragged about the number of women he had sex with after using the date rape drug.


 arabba:  can we please have a source on that?
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #334 on: June 25, 2005, 11:28:22 AM »

Quote from: "Dublin"
The full transcript of the interview with Ramirez is on the Fox website under Greta's blogsite.

Quote
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where your boys met up with Joran?

RAMIREZ: OK, I know that Deepak was working that day. And normally, he works, like, until 11: 30. Depends how busy is the place because it's one man running that place. If he's on that shift, he have to close.

VAN SUSTEREN: At the Internet cafe.

RAMIREZ: At the Internet cafe. So depends how if it's busy. If they paid down (ph) for some hours and they're not finished, then he just wait on them, like, it don't make any difference for 10 minutes on those things. So I assessed, like, maybe 11: 30. Maybe he's finished 11: 30. So I don't know. He told me that Joran called him and asked him that he need a lift.

VAN SUSTEREN: From the home to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know what he told him, but he just said that, Deepak I need a lift, if you can give me a lift or — and then maybe he asked him where or whatever. And why Satish is with him, because he don't go with his car to work. He love his car so much, that if it's a scratch, is a war (ph) in this house. And so he leave his car home. And like, his brother keep contacting him, What time you can pick me up, you know, like...

VAN SUSTEREN: Deepak?

RAMIREZ: Yes. Or he know his time, like, five to 11: 00 or 10 to 11: 00, something like that, he comes out. And then he sit and wait in the car for his brother.

VAN SUSTEREN: So Deepak doesn't have the car at work. He needs a ride from Satish?

RAMIREZ: No, it's his car.

VAN SUSTEREN: But — but Satish...

RAMIREZ: He don't go with his car to work. Satish drop him and bring back his car home.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So Satish is at home with Deepak's car and goes to pick up...

RAMIREZ: Pick him up every night, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

RAMIREZ: So he went there automatically. Maybe his brother said that, yes, Joran asked me for a lift, or tat-tat-tat. I don't know. And then that's why the two were together to go.

VAN SUSTEREN: So in all likelihood, we don't know for sure, but they probably picked him up at his home and then went back to Carlos and Charlie's?

RAMIREZ: I don't know where they reach


That is a part of it. Now you see why I'm questioning the discrepancy in the times?  If Paul came to pick up Joran at 11:00 and yet they were calling Satish for a ride at about the same time, then someone here is lying it seems.


I don't see any discrepancy. She says Satish drove Deepak's car to the internet café about 5  or 10 to 11:00 and waited in the car for Deepak to get off work. She doesn't say when Deepak received the call from Joran to pick him up. Could have been well after 11.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #335 on: June 25, 2005, 11:28:43 AM »

Quote from: "RB"
I think Jorans girlfriends wont come forward because they are afraid hes going to kill them too.

Or for the local girls, get hauled into the authorities for questioning.  Hard for Joran to do anything to them when he's sitting in jail....


Actually one girl emailed his mother because she was out of the country and did say nice things, but we really dont know what the local girls are saying.  I think those people are probably afraid of the intensity of the USA news people.
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RB
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« Reply #336 on: June 25, 2005, 11:28:57 AM »

Then an athlete could easily jog home on the main streets. Who would see someone after 2 in the morning? I know men in their 50s who run for many miles every day. I would think an athlete who is 17 would have no problem getting home before he had to leave for school. He could run for awhile and rest, and run again...hiding if he saw headlights

I wondered if anyone would bring that up.  Joran is an athlete and it would make sense he could have run home.
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Shellbell
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« Reply #337 on: June 25, 2005, 11:29:12 AM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
I think Jorans girlfriends wont come forward because they are afraid hes going to kill them too.

Like Greta said they are not 100% involved yet, nobody knows and we shoulding go around saying stuff that could damage the poor guy if he didnt do it.
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RB
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« Reply #338 on: June 25, 2005, 11:30:18 AM »

Actually one girl emailed his mother because she was out of the country and did say nice things, but we really dont know what the local girls are saying. I think those people are probably afraid of the intensity of the USA news people.

Very true WRT the US media...does anyone know how many of Joran's classmates have been interviewed?  3, maybe 4?
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arubagirl
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« Reply #339 on: June 25, 2005, 11:30:28 AM »

Without anyone seeing him? Lucky bastard.

Joran isn't allowed to drive, legally. That's not to say that he didn't, of course.
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