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Author Topic: RBN #25 A Hot Sat. Night  (Read 203093 times)
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arubagirl
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« Reply #300 on: June 25, 2005, 06:36:21 PM »

Oh jairodirksen, okay. He did say "he thinks".

Okay

Sorry, Rudy, I'm still not going to vote for you, but at least I don't think your bodyguards should refrain you from speaking.
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coco
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« Reply #301 on: June 25, 2005, 06:36:23 PM »

ArubaGirl - fill us in?

Interesting tidbit on Rudy Croes from the Aruba Tradewind Times in June 2004 - written by Eddie Ramos:

Life of the Minister of Justice threatened
 
  MINISTER OF JUSTICE UNDER INCREASED SECURITY
 
 The Intelligence Service of Venezuela (DAS) has notified Aruban  
authorities that a group of Colombians have flown via Venezuela  
to Aruba with the mission of assassinating the Minister of Justice  
Rudy Croes. Rudy Croes has received numerous threats
ever since he fulfilled the function of Minister Justice in 2001 with  
his very aggressive fight against drug trafficking and illegals.
 
It appears that Aruba has become very difficult to serve as a hub
for drug trafficking and the amount of illegals caught have dropped
dramatically. Numerous projects have helped secured Aruba from drug
trafficking and illegals including two on land radars, daily  
helicopter patrol and coast surveillance.
 
Rudy Croes who already has security guards is now under increased  
security. The men protecting his life are well trained in case
of any event. The family of Rudy Croes is also protected.
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arubagirl
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« Reply #302 on: June 25, 2005, 06:37:24 PM »

It's true, Coco.
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HannieC
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« Reply #303 on: June 25, 2005, 06:37:56 PM »

SunnyinTX wrote:
Quote
I think an innocent person would lie....especially a young person.....scared to death....heck they all three knew they were seen with her...and she comes up missing....they all wanted an out...the brothers were covering their own behinds as well as Joren's IMO Actually I believe we only know that they have changed their story once.....from dropping Natalee off at the HI...to dropping J and Natalee off at the beach

JMO



I totally agree with you sunny...
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If you create a theory, you fall in the trap of trying to fit the facts to your theory...
Kkial
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« Reply #304 on: June 25, 2005, 06:38:27 PM »

]

Absolut- This has been bothering me too although no one has followed it up!!
A few days after Natalle disappeared.
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday june 04 that
" there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved."
He declined to give details.

????????????????????//[/quote]

The senator does not live in Mountain Brook, but close..There are a lot of people that live in MB that have connections...Remember,,,there are CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers,etc,,,living there and would have connections..Also,,I am sure that if I called him, he would do what he could to help........IMO,,,,  OOPS,,,not senator,,rep...
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ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH AND NEVER HAVE TO REMEMBER
RazzyBerry
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« Reply #305 on: June 25, 2005, 06:39:35 PM »

The face of innocence....or is it?

1. "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn she was drunk and didnt want any help, then we saw 2 guards walk up to her and we drove away"

oops
2. "We dropped Natalie off with Joran at the Mariott" Did we say Holiday inn before? sorry we meant Mariott.

3. Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and then were supposed to drop Natalee at the HI. (courtesy of aruba girl)

oops
4. Joran - " I called Deepak to pickme up at the Mariott at 3am"
Deepak - Why are you lying joran?
Joran - OK OK I called Satish to come get me..did I say Deepak?

5. Joran was supposed to text message us when he wanted us to come pick him up..we never got the text message.

6. ok ok ok I was with her on the beach alone in the dark at 3 am but I didnt touch her.!!!

This is not what innocent people do when questioned regarding their whereabouts.
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #306 on: June 25, 2005, 06:40:15 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im here give me some more theories to poke full of holes.


Uhhhhhhh, Razzy....what was your "good" comment back there about the boys being released?

I sure hope you don't wish their life is hell if they're innocent?  I can't take their mother off my mind, how she said she didn't know anyone on the island and only worked...and I'm told their 14 year old sister is devastated.  If they were pawns of Joran's...makes me sick how such young lives can be hurt so much.


Theyve already lied, pawn or no pawn they are part of a cover up.  So They are not innocent by that behavior alone.


The boys might not have even known Joran hurt her or is responsible for her being missing.  For some reason I doubt he would tell them. Sure they lied, but IF they didn't know anything about the crime...and really only dropped them off...I wish them healing and good lives.
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iquitos
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« Reply #307 on: June 25, 2005, 06:40:32 PM »

Quote from: "arrabba"
Quote from: "mordred"
Quote from: "absolut"

 No case in America or otherwise gets the FBI in less than 24 hours with NO evidence and that is what we are led to believe happened here.


Absolut- This has been bothering me too although no one has followed it up!!
A few days after Natalle disappeared.
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday june 04 that
" there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved."
He declined to give details.

????????????????????//


The people posting comments over a Dan Riehl's site are all over this angle.  trying to figure out who in Mountain Brook  is related to senators and government officials.


MCWANE owner has kid at MB, Jug is in the steel business, Sen.  Sessions intervened, Condi, an Alabamian, intervened. It happened.  Now if there were other special circumstances they could have included the involvement of a son of a local judge, for example, raising questions as to whether there could be an objective investigation going on down there or if the local boys had put in the fix.
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coco
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« Reply #308 on: June 25, 2005, 06:40:36 PM »

KK and all -  the speed of involvement by US authorities is pretty unusual. Did say the Eliz. Smart case get the same fast fed involvement? (I can't remember but I'm thinking similar level of connections,etc)
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absolut
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« Reply #309 on: June 25, 2005, 06:40:49 PM »

My only follow up to what I posted before, til this is resolved is this:

I don't not believe that this family is any different than RB and myself, or many people from working class 2 income households. (Read not special, not connected.)

I believe that the decisions that were made from the moment the chaperone called and reported her missing to her family is what every family in America needs so that if their kids come up missing there is a plan that follows the patterns of exposure that this one did. Bad news travels fast. The news of Natalee travelled at the speed of light. Only a handful can tell us what was done to create that result.

For the gov't angle. Doesn't fit, the gov't is slow to react to everything, the left the guy on the tractor in the reflecting pool for 4 days while 5 million commuters were affected daily for 2 rush hours a day.
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jairodirksen
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« Reply #310 on: June 25, 2005, 06:41:46 PM »

Arubagirl, I have one question. Can you explain to me where Joran lives precisly?
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Ting
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« Reply #311 on: June 25, 2005, 06:41:55 PM »

Quote
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday june 04 that
" there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved."


That is why my attention has been drawn to this particular case.

Of course, by now, I am caught up in all the speculations and human interest, but I still feel that the US govt involvement aspect is the most intriguing.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #312 on: June 25, 2005, 06:42:19 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im here give me some more theories to poke full of holes.


Uhhhhhhh, Razzy....what was your "good" comment back there about the boys being released?

I sure hope you don't wish their life is hell if they're innocent?  I can't take their mother off my mind, how she said she didn't know anyone on the island and only worked...and I'm told their 14 year old sister is devastated.  If they were pawns of Joran's...makes me sick how such young lives can be hurt so much.


Theyve already lied, pawn or no pawn they are part of a cover up.  So They are not innocent by that behavior alone.


The boys might not have even known Joran hurt her or is responsible for her being missing.  For some reason I doubt he would tell them. Sure they lied, but IF they didn't know anything about the crime...and really only dropped them off...I wish them healing and good lives.


If they are the 2 possibly being released soon then they are cleared and will probably be fine.
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iquitos
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« Reply #313 on: June 25, 2005, 06:42:56 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
The face of innocence....or is it?

1. "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn she was drunk and didnt want any help, then we saw 2 guards walk up to her and we drove away"

oops
2. "We dropped Natalie off with Joran at the Mariott" Did we say Holiday inn before? sorry we meant Mariott.

3. Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and then were supposed to drop Natalee at the HI. (courtesy of aruba girl)

oops
4. Joran - " I called Deepak to pickme up at the Mariott at 3am"
Deepak - Why are you lying joran?
Joran - OK OK I called Satish to come get me..did I say Deepak?

5. Joran was supposed to text message us when he wanted us to come pick him up..we never got the text message.

6. ok ok ok I was with her on the beach alone in the dark at 3 am but I didnt touch her.!!!

This is not what innocent people do when questioned regarding their whereabouts.
 

razzy:  where did you get your hands on the case transcripts?
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coco
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« Reply #314 on: June 25, 2005, 06:43:21 PM »

Razzy - It does sound like Joran and the others have changed their stories but the versions you keep reposting are all hearsay so far.
I know that this doesn't bother you but I do think you should note that these are just second hand at best accounts rather than presenting them as evidence on which to convict - or ruin lives if not convicted.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #315 on: June 25, 2005, 06:45:32 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Razzy - It does sound like Joran and the others have changed their stories but the versions you keep reposting are all hearsay so far.
I know that this doesn't bother you but I do think you should note that these are just second hand at best accounts rather than presenting them as evidence on which to convict - or ruin lives if not convicted.


If you want to be blind to what has been reported thats your choice, some of this information was substatiated by others and aruba girl herself.  If you want to blame me for reporting the facts in  a way that the truth stares you in the face fine.
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sb
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« Reply #316 on: June 25, 2005, 06:45:54 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
I will probably say this another way when this is all over, but the Twitty, Holloway family needs to document what they did (all avenues) to make this search come together. Every family regardless of race, religion, loacation, or financial status could use this as a model. I think, the same tactics and contacts in America would have brought this case to closure much faster and that is not a hit on the LE in Aruba.

There are small details of parts of the rally cry that may never be known but they are the pieces other cases miss. No case in America or otherwise gets the FBI in less than 24 hours with NO evidence and that is what we are led to believe happened here.


It should be clear that there is something behind the scenes connected with this case! Isn't that what Spencer Bachus said from the outset?

WHY all this DENIAL that there is CORRUPTION, COVERUP, and CONSPIRACY involved on a Third World island which sits right in the fairway of the drug smuggling lanes and is regarded by the US State Department as a staging ground coming and going for human/sex trafficking? A SHORT BOAT RIDE from Venezuela and Colombia? It's like we don't want to even THINK about the darker scenarios, like plain, flat out clinical DENIAL!

I guess it speaks a lot about how good we have it here in America, that we don't want to think that people could be hauled off beaches in the dead of night by blackshirted snatch squads. Those things are way beyond our experience (thankfully!), but in other countries they find such things credible.

It would be very helpful if someone who KNOW what life is like on the ground in Venezuela or Colombia could post on here and tell us what it's like there. All I know is what I read... but all I read about are kidnappings and terror nonstop.
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Natalee's family/friends still need our prayers.
arubagirl
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« Reply #317 on: June 25, 2005, 06:46:29 PM »

Jairo, I don't know exactly where Joran's house is, but if you come from the the 'rotonde' Tanki Flip, you go in the direction of Giselle Department store, take a right the next street after the Sportcomplex that they're building, keep on driving for about a few minutes, and there you'll find Montanja. My friends and i didn't exactly look for his house number, it was too dark.
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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #318 on: June 25, 2005, 06:47:12 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "gagirl"
Geraldo was just on Fox a little while ago speaking to the minister of information.... he wanted to clear up the fact that PVDS was not a judge but had sent his letter to the Netherlands for approval to start training.. it had been denied.

Well, according to the Algemeen Dagblad, he was entiteld to hear cases as a substitute magistrate in the court of justice of the Antilles and Aruba, but not rule on them, beginning januari 1 2003.
From march 2004 until march 2005 he was an 'intern' judge here in the Netherlands. But for reasons unknown to the newspaper and me he didn't became a judge, but he has most certainly be trained as one.
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Scott
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« Reply #319 on: June 25, 2005, 06:48:12 PM »

Quote from: "Ting"
It seems like Americans sometimes feel frustrated with their own justice system, I am thinking of Michael Jackson and OJ but I think you can see some of the same thinking from some comments here about Joran.

The frustration seems to be with the specific crime aspect, as when you have a defendant about whom many of the public have a low opinion, or believe he has committed crimes in the past, perhaps for which he was never prosecuted.

However, the job of the jury is to decide whether the state has proved that he has committed this particular crime on that particular day against that particular victim!

They are not charged with deciding if he is a good person who has never done anything wrong, or has an admirable lifestyle, or if he shares the values of those who have a low opinion of him.

Just whether he did X on Y day to Z...


While, theoretically, that should always remain true.  The recent acquittal of Michael Jackson was a gross travesty of justice.

Ray Hultman (Juror #1) said in an interview after the verdict was read, "To be honest with you, I think that he probably has molested children.

I believe this raises a serious ethical question for jurors.

If a perceived threat to children can be removed from society through the empowerment of a jury, isn't it morally reprehensible to exonerate an individual, thus allowing him to remain a persistent threat to the community, regardless of whether the specific charges for which he is being tried can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt?
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