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Author Topic: RBN #25 A Hot Sat. Night  (Read 201451 times)
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puggywug
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« Reply #360 on: June 25, 2005, 07:10:35 PM »

Quote from: "martin connahey"
Facing a dearth of solid info, it's interesting to note that Oranjestad is named for Dutch royal family, originally from William of Orange, whose nickname was William The Silent.

-MC

William of Orange had a PUG DOG!  Very Happy
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #361 on: June 25, 2005, 07:10:49 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
RazzyBerry-wrote-"If you want to be blind to what has been reported thats your choice, some of this information was substatiated by others and aruba girl herself. If you want to blame me for reporting the facts in a way that the truth stares you in the face fine."
I feel that way too many of you are relaying unsubstaniated RUMORS and INNUENDO....All that has OFFICIAL been released is that Joran and the Kalpoe have changed the PLACE as to where they LEFT Natalee...RazzyBerry..you need to think twice about constantly re-posting these INNUENDOS....Does it NOT Bother you that Maybe the Kalpoe brothers Mother might be watching you constantly post these accounts which have NO Basis in FACT ? Judge not lest yee be Judged...FACTS...FACTS...I see NO Fact in what you constantly POST.....

GuyWdog



If they are innocent it shouldnt bother her. Ive said from the beginning the 2 brothers may have little part in this but they still lied for some reason.  If thats all they did was make one little lie then they could be freed tomorrow, but Im only repeating what greta has blasted across the entire world. So nothing Im saying is anything new.


Razzy:  greta caveats, you don't.  greta substantiates and cites sources, you don't.  greta is actually on theisland talking to people, you aren't.   i know greta and you are no greta (to parapharase).


i never said i was greta, and im not on tv so who cares what i say.
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iquitos
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« Reply #362 on: June 25, 2005, 07:11:34 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
I guess it is soapbox day or something.

I also have something to say about CNC's. I am willing to bet that the majority of the people behaving badly at any CNC function are tourist, "letting their hair down". Now I can appreciate and understand where jug's comments about it came from last night. But his college age kid made it a point to get to CNC's and then his step daughter went too. It has nothing to CNC's or Aruba. Possibly the tourist should take more responsibilty of their actions so as not to take on the look of a girls gone wild video.

The party atmosphere of the island did not cause the disappearance but possibly letting ones guard down did, I am not blaming the victim, it happens in America at Mardi Gras, sporting events and private social gatherings every day.


were natalees two male half cousins there that night as well?
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arrabba
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« Reply #363 on: June 25, 2005, 07:11:48 PM »

If this case is never solved I think Natalee's family will exact some justice for her disappearance.  They are obviously well connected and have the ability to exert some influence.  They seem determined to never give up.  They are ready to exhaust every resource they have access to get their daughter back.  That alone makes Natalee seem very special, and may fuel some of the media attention.  Who exactly is this girl that people are moving heaven and earth to find.  We know surprising little about her.
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #364 on: June 25, 2005, 07:12:21 PM »

Quote from: "candygirl"
Quote


Funny, that was my take on it too and I posted such on dan's site. I strongly feel that a kidnapping scam took place to cover up the fact that Nat had been murdered. One cover-up to cover-up!  As was stated & shown early on, all posters read; KIDNAPPED
Think about it........


Now this is a fascinating theory, candygirl and RB.  Instead of an either or situation, you're thinking both murder and kidnap (or rather, murder and then pretend kidnapping), if I'm following correctly.  Damn, that is a pretty dastardly stroke of genius. Do you think that's where PvS might come in?
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Lausa
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« Reply #365 on: June 25, 2005, 07:12:26 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Ask any investigator in the world what it means when a suspect continually changes their story.  Im not the only person here that disagrees with you.

Well, Razz, we'll agree to disagree, OK?  I'll hand you this:  you do marshall your facts well and you are certainly consistent, not consistently right IMHO, but consistent nonetheless.
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absolut
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« Reply #366 on: June 25, 2005, 07:12:38 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"

were natalees two male half cousins there that night as well?


Have no idea that would have to come from an MB source.
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mehill10
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« Reply #367 on: June 25, 2005, 07:13:16 PM »

Quote from: "jairodirksen"
mehill10, it's definitly not 3 miles, from the Marriott to Frans Figaroa? No way, too far.[/quot


i thought arubegirl said that it was 5 mile form the marriott to dutch-bag's house    

what is frans figaroa

i guess i missed something
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #368 on: June 25, 2005, 07:13:36 PM »

Quote from: "Lausa"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Ask any investigator in the world what it means when a suspect continually changes their story.  Im not the only person here that disagrees with you.

Well, Razz, we'll agree to disagree, OK?  I'll hand you this:  you do marshall your facts well and you are certainly consistent, not consistently right IMHO, but consistent nonetheless.


You find one investigator that says an innocent party will continue to change their story and I wont say another word.
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mordred
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« Reply #369 on: June 25, 2005, 07:14:02 PM »

Quote from: "RB"
It should be clear that there is something behind the scenes connected with this case! Isn't that what Spencer Bachus said from the outset?



Perhaps we are reading too much into the FBI involvement in this case- After all, according to their mandate, one of their priorities is to "work with law enforcement and security agencies in their host country to coordinate investigations of interest to both countries."
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GuyWdog
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« Reply #370 on: June 25, 2005, 07:14:16 PM »

Quote
RazzyBerry-wrote-"If they are innocent it shouldnt bother her. Ive said from the beginning the 2 brothers may have little part in this but they still lied for some reason. If thats all they did was make one little lie then they could be freed tomorrow, but Im only repeating what greta has blasted across the entire world. So nothing Im saying is anything new."
It sure would bother me if I kept seeing falsehoods about my children. here you have been on this site for 2 days and you have a post count of 194....like ....WOW...you see some of us see you constantly posting the same thing...not to flame you but in some cases people ask for it, as you are. You are CONSTANTLY Repeating RUMORS...there is NO TRUTH in what you keep posting..so you are assuming that the News Media have their story and it is 100% correct??? I guess you have fogotten - "RatherGate" i for one am tired of seeing people accuse ithers without ANY Proof.....these are 17 yr olds and young men with a Life ahead of them, if they are PROVEN in a court of LAW then I am behind their hopeful very TOUGH Sentence/Punishments. But AGAIN, all that the Authorities have stated are that these 3 have changed the LOCATION where they left Natalee and that change has ONLY been 1 TIME....let's see 194 posts RazzyBerry(since you joined yesterday) you are averaging 4.6 posts per hour for the last 42 hours straight....WOW


GuyWdog
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coco
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« Reply #371 on: June 25, 2005, 07:14:47 PM »

RB - thanks for your comments re: insurance and speed of response - very useful info!

and Absolut - with you on the CnC comments - not sure if you saw my post yesterday: http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=31258&highlight=#31258
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arrabba
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« Reply #372 on: June 25, 2005, 07:15:39 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "iquitos"

were natalees two male half cousins there that night as well?


Have no idea that would have to come from an MB source.


Over at Riehl's site the posters are saying yes, her step-cousins were on the trip.
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candygirl
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« Reply #373 on: June 25, 2005, 07:15:46 PM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "candygirl"
Quote


Funny, that was my take on it too and I posted such on dan's site. I strongly feel that a kidnapping scam took place to cover up the fact that Nat had been murdered. One cover-up to cover-up!  As was stated & shown early on, all posters read; KIDNAPPED
Think about it........


Now this is a fascinating theory, candygirl and RB.  Instead of an either or situation, you're thinking both murder and kidnap (or rather, murder and then pretend kidnapping), if I'm following correctly.  Damn, that is a pretty dastardly stroke of genius. Do you think that's where PvS might come in?


I'm thinking a FAKE kidnapping to cover up a murder.  That could be the call made to Steve 6:30am....he finds someone to make calls to the states or whatever.....something to throw suspicion OFF the VDS.  If they're looking for a live Natalee, won't be searching for a murder.
Any comments?
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #374 on: June 25, 2005, 07:15:53 PM »

Quote from: "Diana"
Quote from: "kkial"
When all this is over,,,it will be interesting to compare the jury system vs the judge....Personally,,I think if a judge heard MJ instead of  a jury,,,plus OJ,,,there would have been a conviction...Not have the media decide...


Closing down Court TV and firing Nancy Grace from presenting on TV in any form would resolve the media problem.


There was a time when I liked her...but, lately I've despised her one sided drooling reports.  She and Geraldo could have a nice little hand wringing pity party together....

Ugghhhhh.
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RB
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« Reply #375 on: June 25, 2005, 07:16:09 PM »

Now this is a fascinating theory, candygirl and RB. Instead of an either or situation, you're thinking both murder and kidnap (or rather, murder and then pretend kidnapping), if I'm following correctly. Damn, that is a pretty dastardly stroke of genius. Do you think that's where PvS might come in?

Yep, although I prefer to say death instead of murder, since I've no idea and don't have enough info to figure what happened - I just know she's missing. The pretend kidnapping thought were explain PvS' involvement from the perspective of part of the "cover up".
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bigpoodle
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« Reply #376 on: June 25, 2005, 07:16:52 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Razzy - I became interested in this case because I was outraged at the arrest of the two security guards and fascinated that BTH would speak on their behalf. I began reading assuming that this was another little Robert Chambers creep ... the more I watched and read, the more questions I found and the less *fact*.

I have no idea what happened - maybe PVDS and JVDS run the biggest white slave trade in the Carib, maybe JVDS is just a murderer, maybe NH ran away, maybe JVDS are not the guilty parties and someone else is ... I don't know.

I do know that the authorities are working the case and probably know more than us. I know that when the US media circus jumps on a case, there's a ton of pressure.

My personal prejudices:
- I can easily imagine the Aruban government fearful of losing tourist dollars and acting more in line with the pressure than with "normal" judicial approaches - but I do not *know* that.  
- I also know that kids do some stupid things - and it bothers me that Joran is demonized for his web page but Natalee is a saint with zero imperfections.  
- I believe that many cases tried in the media are skewed to the most sellable story - date rape drugs and sex on the beach sells - and this worries me because I care about authentic justice that convicts the guilty and protects the innocent.


Amen!
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heavyheart
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« Reply #377 on: June 25, 2005, 07:17:04 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
RazzyBerry-wrote-"If you want to be blind to what has been reported thats your choice, some of this information was substatiated by others and aruba girl herself. If you want to blame me for reporting the facts in a way that the truth stares you in the face fine."
I feel that way too many of you are relaying unsubstaniated RUMORS and INNUENDO....All that has OFFICIAL been released is that Joran and the Kalpoe have changed the PLACE as to where they LEFT Natalee...RazzyBerry..you need to think twice about constantly re-posting these INNUENDOS....Does it NOT Bother you that Maybe the Kalpoe brothers Mother might be watching you constantly post these accounts which have NO Basis in FACT ? Judge not lest yee be Judged...FACTS...FACTS...I see NO Fact in what you constantly POST.....

GuyWdog



If they are innocent it shouldnt bother her. Ive said from the beginning the 2 brothers may have little part in this but they still lied for some reason.  If thats all they did was make one little lie then they could be freed tomorrow, but Im only repeating what greta has blasted across the entire world. So nothing Im saying is anything new.


Razzy:  greta caveats, you don't.  greta substantiates and cites sources, you don't.  greta is actually on theisland talking to people, you aren't.   i know greta and you are no greta (to parapharase).


i never said i was greta, and im not on tv so who cares what i say.


The point is that the boys are still in jail because they lied about something as serious as kidnapping or potentially murder.  Would any of you have lied to help a friend out of a possible murder or kidnapping charge.  I mean come on, it takes a special kind of stupid to do something like that.  I believe, from what is known, that they are more involved than even they want to tell their mother.
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Rosalie
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« Reply #378 on: June 25, 2005, 07:17:25 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "sb"
Quote from: "absolut"
I will probably say this another way when this is all over, but the Twitty, Holloway family needs to document what they did (all avenues) to make this search come together. Every family regardless of race, religion, loacation, or financial status could use this as a model. I think, the same tactics and contacts in America would have brought this case to closure much faster and that is not a hit on the LE in Aruba.

There are small details of parts of the rally cry that may never be known but they are the pieces other cases miss. No case in America or otherwise gets the FBI in less than 24 hours with NO evidence and that is what we are led to believe happened here.


It should be clear that there is something behind the scenes connected with this case! Isn't that what Spencer Bachus said from the outset?

WHY all this DENIAL that there is CORRUPTION, COVERUP, and CONSPIRACY involved on a Third World island which sits right in the fairway of the drug smuggling lanes and is regarded by the US State Department as a staging ground coming and going for human/sex trafficking? A SHORT BOAT RIDE from Venezuela and Colombia? It's like we don't want to even THINK about the darker scenarios, like plain, flat out clinical DENIAL!

I guess it speaks a lot about how good we have it here in America, that we don't want to think that people could be hauled off beaches in the dead of night by blackshirted snatch squads. Those things are way beyond our experience (thankfully!), but in other countries they find such things credible.

It would be very helpful if someone who KNOW what life is like on the ground in Venezuela or Colombia could post on here and tell us what it's like there. All I know is what I read... but all I read about are kidnappings and terror nonstop.


sb, i lived in venezuela for three years. left in 94, so my info is dated.  i was there for the chavez coup attempt.  Venezuela has a high crime rate but it does not compare with the terror and organized criminality in colombia where human life has little value and kidnapping and hit squads are a major industry.  Colombia is major snakepit compared to venezeula and it seeps across the mutual borders.  the colombians come in and kidnap people (ranchers, rich guys, foreigners) and take them back to colombia.  i was involved in a case where colombians came in to a tourist fishing camp in southern venezuela and took two americans and the pilot who came to pick them up and flew off into the wild blue yonder.  they made their ransom demands on cb radio.  they allowed long periods to pass between contacts.  the guys families finally mortgaged everything and paid like $300,000.  the intermediary went ito the jungle on the venezuelan border with the cash and came back the same day with the abductees  Happens every day.  lotta colombians on aruba.  low class  ones working the hotel jobs, upper class ones laundering money and gambling.  they go over on lear jets for the weekend. highrollers.   they move dope through aruban ports.  Aruba is very vulnerable being located where it is.




Wasnt there a HUGE drug bust down that way two weeks before all the dead and missing started.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #379 on: June 25, 2005, 07:17:52 PM »

Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Quote
RazzyBerry-wrote-"If they are innocent it shouldnt bother her. Ive said from the beginning the 2 brothers may have little part in this but they still lied for some reason. If thats all they did was make one little lie then they could be freed tomorrow, but Im only repeating what greta has blasted across the entire world. So nothing Im saying is anything new."
It sure would bother me if I kept seeing falsehoods about my children. here you have been on this site for 2 days and you have a post count of 194....like ....WOW...you see some of us see you constantly posting the same thing...not to flame you but in some cases people ask for it, as you are. You are CONSTANTLY Repeating RUMORS...there is NO TRUTH in what you keep posting..so you are assuming that the News Media have their story and it is 100% correct??? I guess you have fogotten - "RatherGate" i for one am tired of seeing people accuse ithers without ANY Proof.....these are 17 yr olds and young men with a Life ahead of them, if they are PROVEN in a court of LAW then I am behind their hopeful very TOUGH Sentence/Punishments. But AGAIN, all that the Authorities have stated are that these 3 have changed the LOCATION where they left Natalee and that change has ONLY been 1 TIME....let's see 194 posts RazzyBerry(since you joined yesterday) you are averaging 4.6 posts per hour for the last 42 hours straight....WOW


GuyWdog


Im glad youre impressed, its been hard work , but its been worth it..., If i had a daughter and that was missing and the last people to see her lied to me about where she was Id be just as determined as her parents are to make sure they were convicted of some sort of crime.  The first 48 hours of a murder are the critical stage and these boys led police on a wild goose chase during that time.  But lets all feel sorry for them.
Boo HOO
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