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Author Topic: RBN #25 A Hot Sat. Night  (Read 201491 times)
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bendex
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« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2005, 04:52:26 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Bendex - we actually do it all the time - we just forget about those cases!

Check out www.wm3.org sometime for one horrifying tale of american justice  - and there we have the death penalty in play!


Wow interesting website. I think that is the risk of having a public jury , in th netherlands the judge decides ( i believe ) but in the netherlands people where also locked up innocent due to judgemental errors.

I am not in favor of deathpenalty , anyone who is I ask them would you pull the trigger ?
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arubagirl
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« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2005, 04:53:22 PM »

Diario saying that a rumor that one of the MBH students stayed behind is not true.
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candygirl
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« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2005, 04:53:42 PM »

Quote from: "arubagirl"
Abt the mineshafts. If you're talking about the phosphate mine shafts, I've looked in one, besides it's a 14 meter drop.
The other mine, I do not know if people searched them, or the goldmineshafts.

The thing is that the locations of these mine shafts are pretty obscure, only a person really interested in them would know where they are.


I heard early on they were places of interest. I don't know where they're located in reference to Sloot's home  or the beach. But, I would think after living there 15 yrs., PVDS or one of the 4 boys more than likely knew of these places I would think.
Hopefully the sonair will be used in them......
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Getagrip
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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2005, 04:53:47 PM »

Quote from: "arubagirl"
Diario saying that a rumor that one of the MBH students stayed behind is not true.

Thanks, arubagirl.
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K in TX
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2005, 04:54:13 PM »

I've been wondering something ever since this whole case began...how exactly is "Oranjestad" pronounced?
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2005, 04:54:29 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "HannieC"
I have a irie feeling that Joran spoke the truth about that he left her on the beach b/c she wanted him to. His only mistake seems to me that he lied about it. If you hear the next day that a girl is missing and you are 17 years old and am afraid that they all think that you did something to that girl I think it`s humanly possible for some people to do what he did and thus lie...


That`s my opinion .....sue me Wink


People dont lie about something when they didnt do anything wrong, he changed his story 3 times and brought in guys to cover his alibi.  Thats not being afraid thats called being guilty.


Maybe what Joran thought "was wrong" was to leave her alone on the beach. Maybe he feels responsible for this because they didn't bring her back to her hotel?
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GuyWdog
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2005, 04:54:31 PM »

kerinTx- Wrote-"One thing for sure, Razzy...daddy's law days are over don't you think??  No matter WHAT happens. Too much info out on him that would place a black eye on his credibility-end quote" PLease inform me of what facst support your statements???????????? Just WHAT has Paulus VDSloot done to support your suggestions that his carrer is runined?????? I think way too many of you are jumpoing the gun on all this. We dont know ANYTHING at this point. All we know is that the 3 kids changed their story as to where they dropped Natalee off at, anything other than that is GLASS BALL Guessing.......Kerin Please inform us to your inside knowledge ????


GuyWdog
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coco
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2005, 04:54:52 PM »

Iquitos - I really appreciate the information you've shared with us on PVDS' legal status and Hannie's - it's really helpful!

And Bendex - it's all about drugs and sex because we don't want to believe that "good american girls" might actually go to the beach at night with a guy - she musta been drugged!

One of the things I really appreciated when I visited in the Netherlands with my teenage daughter was the much saner attitude on sexuallity and teens - as well as the much saner attitude on drinking. We spent time with colleagues of mine who had a son the same age as my daughter (16 at the time) and they were able to go out to a club, drink beers, dance, etc - but they could not get behind the wheel of a car!  They certainly pushed their kids on academic achievement but they also gave them a lot of independence - and from what I could see, the kids were more responsible because of it. I kept thinking of the kids here whose parents claim to supervise everything but who drink and drive and get into tons of trouble. In my little town, we had 5 teens killed in various dwi accidents in just the past 2 years - but we scoff at Dutch parents ... ugh!
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RB
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2005, 04:54:53 PM »

Quote from: "K in TX"
I've been wondering something ever since this whole case began...how exactly is "Oranjestead" pronounced?


This should be good Smile Who is going to sound it out phonetically in type?
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iquitos
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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2005, 04:55:56 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "homeontherange"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im here give me some more theories to poke full of holes.
So----- 1:30 Leave NH leaves C&C's thinking she's getting a ride to HI. She's got the mickey in the system. 1:45 till she's out and JVS unloads her where he plan's to "get some". 2:00 JVS "satisfied" enjoying the afterglow, ready to return NH to HI. Calls in the "taxi" 2:10 "taxi" arrives as JVS realizes something is wrong with NH. The three try to figure out what to do. 2:30 NH is dead and DA3 know it, decide they need advice from PVS. 2:40 arrive at PVS home. 2:45 wake daddy and explain problem. 3:00 Daddy worried and trying to come up w/ a plan. According to Weather.com, sun comes up @6:17 today, probably @6:25 5/30 but light @ 6:00 or a little before. So you've got less than 3 hours for inexperienced murderers to either A: hide a body so that nobody on a 70sq mile island with an average of 1000 permanent residents per sq/mi plus who knows how many tourists won't EVER find it? Are these guys outdoorsmen? They've got shovels and plastic and whatever else handy. They know the "Perfect spot". Nobody sees a car pulling down a back road? Hard to believe. So B: Dump the body in the water. But---bodies float, so -- disembowel the body? Use weights? Where do they come from? How much is enough? How do you get them and the body to where the disposal occurs. It could be a pool on the island -- I doubt it, something would turn up sooner or later. It couldn't be just offshore, the body, or parts of it would wash up sooner or later. Take it way offshore -- maybe but your telling me you organize the boat, personel, wieghts, move the body and get this all done in less than 3 hours. I don't think so, when your a wreck like they all would have been in this situation, NOTHING GOES RIGHT. It just doesn't work. If she's dead, the body was stored to be disposed of later or is still in storage. Otherwise she was handed off to somebody(s) else. I don't know if she's still alive but something isn't right about the "She's dead" theories either.


The time frame on the initial day is a very valid point.  3 hours isnt really enough time to permanently dispose of a body that you didnt plan beforehand.
 

HOORAH TO HOTR FOR A ROCK SOLID SCENARIO.   Timelines pay.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2005, 04:56:06 PM »

The face of innocence....or is it?

1.  "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn she was drunk and didnt want any help, then we saw 2 guards walk up to her and we drove away"

oops
2.  "We dropped Natalie off with Joran at the Mariott"  Did we say Holiday inn before? sorry we meant Mariott.

3. Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and then were supposed to drop Natalee at the HI. (courtesy of aruba girl)

oops
4. Joran -  " I called Deepak to pickme up at the Mariott at 3am"  
   Deepak - Why are you lying joran?
   Joran - OK OK I called Satish to come get me..did I say Deepak?

5.  Joran was supposed to text message us when he wanted us to come pick him up..we never got the text message.

6. ok ok ok I was with her on the beach alone in the dark at 3 am but I didnt touch her.!!!

This is not what innocent people do when questioned regarding their whereabouts.
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arubagirl
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« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2005, 04:57:38 PM »

You forgot: Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and then were supposed to drop Natalee at the HI.
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martin connahey
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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2005, 04:58:45 PM »

On a slow news day, check out what others are saying about Aruba case:
=====
Steve Yuhas on KOGO in San Diego asks some relevant questions in his column-
http://www.steveyuhas.com/columns/yuhas_20050621.htm
=====
Washington Post's column has dated, but thoughtful, analysis-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060901729.html
=====
Over at MediaDomain, there's an interesting thread-
http://www.mediadomain.com/cgi-bin/netforum/yandr_fan/a.cgi/3-56
=====
Read Willy Wanka's take at-
http://totallycrap.com/index.php/tc/comments/1005/
=====
The News Blog has info about party life in Aruba-
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/06/adults-in-adult-situation.html
=====
Capital Region People has two related pages-
http://capitalregionpeople.blogspot.com/2005/06/bloggers-vs-natalee-holloway.html
with give-and-take on the case, and-
-----
http://capitalregionpeople.blogspot.com/2005/06/natalee-holloway-sold-as-slave.html
with some links on slave-trade and similar topics
-----
Enjoy.

--MC
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Professor
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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2005, 04:58:49 PM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "HannieC"
I have a irie feeling that Joran spoke the truth about that he left her on the beach b/c she wanted him to. His only mistake seems to me that he lied about it. If you hear the next day that a girl is missing and you are 17 years old and am afraid that they all think that you did something to that girl I think it`s humanly possible for some people to do what he did and thus lie...


That`s my opinion .....sue me Wink


People dont lie about something when they didnt do anything wrong, he changed his story 3 times and brought in guys to cover his alibi.  Thats not being afraid thats called being guilty.


Feeling any kind of remorse is out of character, from everything we know of Joran and the VDS family. Remember the first night the Twitty' s came asking about their daughter. so No, he wouldn't lie because he felt responsible for leaving her there, alone on the beach.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:02 PM »

WHOA GUY...simmer down! I have no "facts"...but do you? Have you ever seen someone's reputation trashed over rumors or innuendos? In no way was I saying that daddy is GUILTY (read the post again)...I was saying IMO his reputation and NAME may have been tarnished because of this.

You obviously feel otherwise...goodie for you.

Not changing my mind though.  Wink
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bendex
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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:03 PM »

Anyone can quote me a scenario without drugs or sex ?, as you mention yourself it takes a real proffesional to hide a corpse . Even if there is a corpse I don't think that Joran panicking could plan a hiding a corpse.

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Quote from: "homeontherange"
Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
Im here give me some more theories to poke full of holes.
So----- 1:30 Leave NH leaves C&C's thinking she's getting a ride to HI. She's got the mickey in the system. 1:45 till she's out and JVS unloads her where he plan's to "get some". 2:00 JVS "satisfied" enjoying the afterglow, ready to return NH to HI. Calls in the "taxi" 2:10 "taxi" arrives as JVS realizes something is wrong with NH. The three try to figure out what to do. 2:30 NH is dead and DA3 know it, decide they need advice from PVS. 2:40 arrive at PVS home. 2:45 wake daddy and explain problem. 3:00 Daddy worried and trying to come up w/ a plan. According to Weather.com, sun comes up @6:17 today, probably @6:25 5/30 but light @ 6:00 or a little before. So you've got less than 3 hours for inexperienced murderers to either A: hide a body so that nobody on a 70sq mile island with an average of 1000 permanent residents per sq/mi plus who knows how many tourists won't EVER find it? Are these guys outdoorsmen? They've got shovels and plastic and whatever else handy. They know the "Perfect spot". Nobody sees a car pulling down a back road? Hard to believe. So B: Dump the body in the water. But---bodies float, so -- disembowel the body? Use weights? Where do they come from? How much is enough? How do you get them and the body to where the disposal occurs. It could be a pool on the island -- I doubt it, something would turn up sooner or later. It couldn't be just offshore, the body, or parts of it would wash up sooner or later. Take it way offshore -- maybe but your telling me you organize the boat, personel, wieghts, move the body and get this all done in less than 3 hours. I don't think so, when your a wreck like they all would have been in this situation, NOTHING GOES RIGHT. It just doesn't work. If she's dead, the body was stored to be disposed of later or is still in storage. Otherwise she was handed off to somebody(s) else. I don't know if she's still alive but something isn't right about the "She's dead" theories either.


The time frame on the initial day is a very valid point.  3 hours isnt really enough time to permanently dispose of a body that you didnt plan beforehand.
 

HOORAH TO HOTR FOR A ROCK SOLID SCENARIO.   Timelines pay.
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RazzyBerry
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« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:20 PM »

Quote from: "arubagirl"
You forgot: Deepak and Satish dropped me off at home and then were supposed to drop Natalee at the HI.


OMG aruba girl you are right I totally forgot about that one.
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HannieC
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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:30 PM »

RazzyBerry wrote:

Quote
People dont lie about something when they didnt do anything wrong, he changed his story 3 times and brought in guys to cover his alibi. Thats not being afraid thats called being guilty.


I can certainly imagen people lie about something like that, he`s only human not a robot and don`t forget why isn`t he confessing?? Here in Holland there were 2 adult males, married, children the whole package..They were suspects in a murdercase, the police pressured them so much that finally the confessed to the murder, spend over 6 years in jail......and it is later proven that they were innocent so what about that?


And you know when you begin with a lie it`s getting worse so I don`t call anybody guilty of murder, missing, or what rumours there spreading based on a lie.
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Getagrip
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« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:45 PM »

Quote from: "RazzyBerry"
3. Joran -  " I called Satish to pickme up at the Mariott at 3am"  
   Satish - Why are you lying joran?
   Joran - OK OK I called Deepak to come get me..did I say Satish?

Small correction, he first said Deepak came to pick him up, and it was Deepak who said "why are you lying" at which point Joran replied, "you're right, it was Satish" - as reported - we then know nothing about what Satish's reaction was. (EDIT: source)

It doesn't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of highlighting the changing stories scenario - and I concur, innocent people do not make up several stories. If the first one was a lie, and the 2nd one wasn't and didn't change, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.
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arubagirl
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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2005, 04:59:58 PM »

The Steve Yulas article appeared in Diario and was spread around to locals.
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