RBN #26 NightCrew Sat/Sun

[coco]

DT - I think part of the questioning is that it's really rare to see a public case like this that is so completely controlled in terms of media coverage and image. Just thinking in comparison to say the Elizabeth Smart case where there were all sorts of runours and innuendoes and such - not condoning those but that's how the media operates and we don't see it here.

I also don't think it's that people find it hard to believe that there are good kids - I sure do believe there are good kids but I know that they are not perfect and more multidimensional than that - couple this with the image of "good kids with good morals" who go to Aruba for open bar all inclusive, casinos and Carlos and Charlie's at night ... it's an interesting picture of what our culture not considers "good."

And I think that that is part of what stirs interest in the case - we're seeing an image of acceptable or even "good" young adult behavior that is very different from the definition that many of us grew up with. This is not ... NOT ... blaming Natalee or the parents or anything like that - it's about Natalee as a symbol for a shift in our culture and how we react. These discussions are probably not meant for folks who are close to the situation itself - for you all, it's personal and about someone you know. But online, in a blog, etc it becomes also about ideas and broader cultural implications. One thing I value here is that I don't think anyone, no matter what their theory of the case, forgets that at the core is the disappearance of a lovely young woman who did not deserve whatever has happened to her - and I think we all ache for her and her family.

[writenow]

I am convinced that the "young adults", not "kids" who have appeared on National TV have a prepared "script". Therefore, therefore there should be the number of inconsistnecises we heard.

Apparently you haven't met our little Dash.

No scripts, Cancun. You're reaching here.

[TTownMike]

I am new to posting here but have been reading for days.  The answers to so many of these so-called concerns have already been posted here.  One example is the friends of NH saying they were all standing outside getting into taxis to go back to the HI and right then and there, NH indicated to her friend she was returning with the second group of MB students, NOT that she was going with Joren at all.

She was at the very back of the group, taxis pulling up, loading people.  Perhaps because of his size, Joren was able to shield her from their view and hustle her into their car or it was the only one left as she was at the rear of the group.  I remain convinced she thought she was getting into a taxi like everybody else before her had done.

This would explain the mother of the brothers saying she never spoke one word to them.  She thought they were taxi drivers.

I am from Alabama and am on here for the poster asking.  It gets hard to stomache all the suspicion placed on the victim, her family and even the MB kids instead of whomever did this.     Makes my blood boil and I can only take it in small doses.  Such a desperate attempt to find some dirt on the victim or the family.  Gotta wonder why!

YOU TELLUM BOUT IT ANNA!  Folks tend to forget about drugs and for some reason want to accept the Nat willingly left with JvS after meeting 30 mins before!  Gimme a break!  He's known to be a liar about all this and she's not here to explain, but bein as she's gone, and he's incriminated himself, one should conclude he had more agenda than she did!  She is the victim!  I cannot accept anything except she thought, when she got in the car, that it was a ride to the HI.  With the three amigos there I'm sure she found herself where she didnt intend to be very soon if not instatntly!  I dont necessarily believe even that there was a trip to lghthse!  All we know of what the 3 have said is that "that was their story and they" INTENDED to stick to it!  ONce they start sqirming who knows whos still lying or fessin!  I dont think either Urine or the bros have told MUCH TRUTH IF ANY!

[Selena]

I am shorter and weigh less than Nat, but I tell you what, after 5 vodka drinks they'd be carrying me to a cab.

[wantsanswers]

coco, according to Canal 90 they have interrogated AvdS

I think its a bit disgusting to see Jug smile with glee at Paul's arrest.  He'll probably be so happy if they charge AVDS as well.

You know when people get killed or murdered you always see the family crying and sobbing...I have not seen it in MSM. Maybe they cry off camera, but it sure looks cold to me...it raises no sympathy...so I hope hope the spin doc relay this to the them.

I've commented before on those extended family dynamics and your conclusions are not exactly as my own; however, Jug's public (on TV behavior over these past three weeks certainly allows enough to comment upon his interaction with Beth and that with NH....)  I offer his public statement about his relationship with his bio-son...was that George, last night, and his comments about Natalee...

If you heard it, you know what I heard...and if you didn't then you didn't...suffice to say it was different...it was.

As for the parents, its been a long time and they are in the anger stage, everyone does that, I can say that from experience. As for teh kids, they seem very, very immature.  Almost like nothing really has happened. Some of the girls might have been jealous, some not talking maybe can't because of grief.

[puggywug]

Ladyhawke or Liquid X, you can make it at home, odorless and colorless, looks like water, how easy is it to put in a drink at a br though, nuless you are buying. How was Nat drinking at the bar, from what I heard all she had on her was a drivers license, and I didn't see pockets on her skirt, Could someone else have bought her drinks, maybe even Joran?

 
she would have taken some emergency money too.  and maybe she won one of the free drink contests.  joran came on the scene late.  one bartender report  (not confirmed) said she had five vodka drinks.

How would a bartender remember how many drinks she had if
1) it was a crowded bar with many people buying drinks
2) there were other blonde young women at the bar
How can the bartender be sure she had 5 drinks?  And what if she picked up drinks for other people? Just asking

[OldFart]

Oldfart, I'm sorry, I'm not following. Out of his way? what way?

There was a time line post (not usere of source) that was
"6:30 am Call to or from Joran’s cellphone in area of Santa Lucia"
Just wondering where that was?
thnks

[Itawamba]

I am new to posting here but have been reading for days.  The answers to so many of these so-called concerns have already been posted here.  One example is the friends of NH saying they were all standing outside getting into taxis to go back to the HI and right then and there, NH indicated to her friend she was returning with the second group of MB students, NOT that she was going with Joren at all.

She was at the very back of the group, taxis pulling up, loading people.  Perhaps because of his size, Joren was able to shield her from their view and hustle her into their car or it was the only one left as she was at the rear of the group.  I remain convinced she thought she was getting into a taxi like everybody else before her had done.

This would explain the mother of the brothers saying she never spoke one word to them.  She thought they were taxi drivers.

I am from Alabama and am on here for the poster asking.  It gets hard to stomache all the suspicion placed on the victim, her family and even the MB kids instead of whomever did this.     Makes my blood boil and I can only take it in small doses.  Such a desperate attempt to find some dirt on the victim or the family.  Gotta wonder why!

Hi, Anna--glad you posted.  I think what is *significant* is that there is NO DIRT to find about Natalee.  It's good that all these questions are being asked.

I hate to bring up Jennifer Wilbanks, but for lack of a better example, you see what the public found out *after* she had gone missing and all had searched for her (I had gone into my 24/7 sleuthing mode by Day 3, after following a bit to see more about the case)--her parents withheld some info that would've been relevant.  She had a shady background that no one knew about.  Turned out to be a hoax as far as her being missing.

While it's hard to look at all this *crime* lingo and suspicion being directed at youngsters of yours and your friends, it is necessary and it's the only way Natalee will be found or justice will be served for her.  God bless you for being her friend.

[Whitney]

CancunMole[/b]"]

If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point.

This, I'm sure will not be popular but, my dog wouldn't let Jug in my house with all his vinegar. To me, the way the vdSs' dogs reacted to strangers, told me volumes about them as people who live/brought the dogs up. Barking but tails awagin'.

CancunMole...sort of my point I'll be making...

If you saw the tape with Greta and Beth Holloway/Twitty making that surprise visit to the VDS-household...there was NO BARKING...in fact, there was tail-wagging behaviour by both of the dogs...and I think that voice was Beth HT's voice calling out, initially to the dogs, and then yelling, 'are you home?' to the inhabitants...all the dogs continued to wag their tales...with heads BOWED...

They knew that Beth had authority...there was NO DOUBT.

...and this is my last edit...the first was to place those ' and '....

the homeys...the VDS peeps, the owners and 'feeder' of these dogs-beasts-watchers were home!...for a woman as Beth to win over these doggers so easily says a lot about Beth and the owners of this household...

these people are very you-and-me peeps, IMHO.

[Kipster]

Your "90%" interviewed confirmed the "most" part I read or saw, thank you arlee.

Please note in my earlier post that I agreed with you. The 'authorities' would not be doing their jobs (IMO) if they didn't have a sit-down with 100% within a week, and it probably would not behoove any involved to make it a public statement of fact that the interviews are 100% complete.

[writenow]

I am shorter and weigh less than Nat, but I tell you what, after 5 vodka drinks they'd be carrying me to a cab.

And the fact that they weren't carrying her shows she didn't drink 5 vodkas.

[arubagirl]

It's actually in the middle of nowhere .

At 6.30 am, if that's when the phone call took place, it looks very early for him to be already in the bus.

But damn, to go hide a body or evidence of a crime THAT far? Why?

[Ladyhawke112]

Ladyhawke or Liquid X, you can make it at home, odorless and colorless, looks like water, how easy is it to put in a drink at a br though, nuless you are buying. How was Nat drinking at the bar, from what I heard all she had on her was a drivers license, and I didn't see pockets on her skirt, Could someone else have bought her drinks, maybe even Joran?

Selena, unfortunately, whether she bought or not, unless she was carefully watching how what was served was prepared and keeping an eye on the beverage as it was delivered, particularly near closing time, she was in jeapardy. I'm guessing, as there was a time I would have felt likewise, that she paid no attention.

[TTownMike]

My question to you (those who want to hear from them) is this.  After everything you have heard to date from all sources, what exactly do you want to hear from them?  What could they tell you that would solve this case?  Why is it so important for these kids to be in the public eye?

<snip>

You have already been told that nobody (especially those who were out by the pool) saw her returned to the Holiday Inn.  I think you know how highly thought of she is, along w/ her parents.  This place isn't nearly as "Stepford" as it's made out to be, it's just a small town, with small town, old fashioned values.

It's not important that they be in the public eye, BUT having said that, does anyone find it weird that this girl, who is reportedly so well liked, appears to not have confided  (by that I mean girl talk) anything about Joran Van Der Sloot to them after meeting him, and basically (if the reports and rumors are to be believed) spent time exclusively with JVDS at C&C, to the exclusion of her friends?  I'm confused by that.

the rumours are out yes she did talk about him, but they are not talking to the press and her one friend is having a nervous breakdown,

It makes best sense that if she ha any idea she was going AWAY from her friends, SHE WOULD HAVE TOLD SOMEONE WHERE SHE WAS GOING!  (But then, if drugged, who knows what she may have been able to think or do or say!)

[Anna]

>>Hi, LUNA. As you can see, I'm Puggywug. I post this alot when there are questions about Natalee getting in the car. Here is a quote from Dash's mom who also posts here:

"My daughter spoke with Natalee right after C&C's closed. My daughter & her friends came across Nat & Joran as all were exiting the club, and all were walking more or less together toward another group of classmates...

Natalee was walking unassisted (not falling down drunk), spoke ok (though not answering in long sentences), and was not touching Joran.

Nat assured them that she was fine, and said she was going to go back to the hotel "with THEM," pointing to the MBHS group just a few yards ahead. The Kalpoes were nowhere in sight; neither was the car.

Next {woman’s daughter} heard was that Natalee got into a car that many in the group had thought was a taxi. (Those look like regular cars.) It may be that the Kalpoes pulled up on the street before Natalee reached the next group; Joran may have deliberately stalled her. The group may not have even realized she was behind them, approaching.

But while we hear that she got in the car willingly, we know from her comments that it was not her pre-planned intention. Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone . . .“
 
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=303&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=400<<

Well, I really can't help how odd anybody finds this but it has been explained over and over and even on this forum.  And NH has been called some very vile names by the Joren fan club because she got into this car but the poster just a few pages back stated that under the influence of a date rape drug that she walked/talked fairly normally.  While some may not like this version, it is the closest thing we have to what actually happened, an eyewitness account from somebody who spoke to her just an instant before they were loading into the car.

Sure looks like to me she did not even intend to go with Joren.  And there was a link yesterday to an article on the Dark Side about the practice called carving out where males surround the female victim to separate her from her group which it seems is sadly a common practice in the region.  Block her from their view and they from hers and just sort of jostle her along to the waiting car or whatever.

I can't believe everybody missed this post.  And I sometimes wonder why the same questions are asked over and over and over, even on the same day.  Sure, we all miss a bunch of posts but it just seems so odd to come here day after day and the same questions being asked yet again.  Sometimes by the same people.

What's up with that?

[golden]

the rumours are out yes she did talk about him, but they are not talking to the press and her one friend is having a nervous breakdown,

This is really the saddest part, how many people will be continuously affected by this sad situation,the Holloways, Twittys, VDS, Kaploes and everyone close to them will have to deal with this for a very long time.

[Selena]

Puggy
At CnC's they POUR drinks down your throat! there is a conga line, when it passes the DJ booth people get shots down their throats, the waiters come to your table and pour shots, everyone can participate in contests where half the bar wins shots, it would be IMPOSSIBLe to keep up with one girls drinks!

[DT]

DT - I think part of the questioning is that it's really rare to see a public case like this that is so completely controlled in terms of media coverage and image. Just thinking in comparison to say the Elizabeth Smart case where there were all sorts of runours and innuendoes and such - not condoning those but that's how the media operates and we don't see it here.

I also don't think it's that people find it hard to believe that there are good kids - I sure do believe there are good kids but I know that they are not perfect and more multidimensional than that - couple this with the image of "good kids with good morals" who go to Aruba for open bar all inclusive, casinos and Carlos and Charlie's at night ... it's an interesting picture of what our culture not considers "good."

And I think that that is part of what stirs interest in the case - we're seeing an image of acceptable or even "good" young adult behavior that is very different from the definition that many of us grew up with. This is not ... NOT ... blaming Natalee or the parents or anything like that - it's about Natalee as a symbol for a shift in our culture and how we react. These discussions are probably not meant for folks who are close to the situation itself - for you all, it's personal and about someone you know. But online, in a blog, etc it becomes also about ideas and broader cultural implications. One thing I value here is that I don't think anyone, no matter what their theory of the case, forgets that at the core is the disappearance of a lovely young woman who did not deserve whatever has happened to her - and I think we all ache for her and her family.

But you're missing the point no one is claiming anyone is perfect.  They're claiming she was a very good person with good morals.  Nothing we know yet contradicts that. We don't know how much she drank or even if she gambled.  I wouldn't be surprised if she did both of these things.  But I think that is entirely consistent with a person who has good morals.

[golden]

I honestly don't blame any Aruban for not speaking up or offering any information they may have.  Everybody that does  gets arrested.  

They haven't arrested Lorenzo, Max or Larissa yet.

They are probably on the list.

[CancunMole]

>>Oh, why aren't ArubaGirl , NativeLingo or any of the other 'on Island folks' on or staying on the board to help us know what is going on and to translate for us?

Oh, maybe because we are insulting idiots or by definition, UGLY AMERICANS????????

Aww, their hides are leathered from dealing vis-a-vis with our dumbasses daily. Lil message board adrenaline shouldn't scare them off. However, what happened to --- & other AL folk?

This is absolutely true OIMO. I probably should have separated the question from my own answer................