RBN #26 NightCrew Sat/Sun

[columbo]

The woman's daughter DID tell her story to the MSM - it was Dash's mother who wrote that post.

Ok, sorry....I don't know who Dash is. My point is we have no idea if Natalee thought she was getting into a cab or her friends assumed she was getting into a cab. For all we know, Nat was comfortable enough with Joran to leave with him, or maybe not. If we had more statements from Nat's friends her name/reputation would not be in question. It seems like the MB folks are getting upset by what they're reading here, but we don't have enough information from the other students/friends to discount the rumors and speculations.

Thanks for calling me on my error though, Puggy. I love to be proven wrong.      

[Red]

columbo

But, aside from the few who have come foward on O'Reilly and Van Susteran, we have nothing else to go on. If the students (or parents of students) want to tell their story, then why not speak to the media? Why would this mother tell her story to Scared Monkey's and not CNN, FOX or any other news org. ??

Wow, I almost take offense to that comment.  

Here might be your answer. Maybe just maybe, Scared Monkeys has acted with more professionalism, courtesy and honesty with the MB teens and their parents than the MSM?

Trust me when I say this, I have said to more than 1 MSM producer this past week that they better start doing right by these kids. All remember, this is not like interviewing an adult. Like it or not they are teens and the same sleazy MSM rules do not apply.

Why would they come on here huh and say it. Thanks a lot.

[puggywug]

 
And to my mind, if you were about to commit a premeditated crime, you probably wouldn't begin at a place that knows you as a regular.

Why not?  The premeditated crime would be the rape of an American girl on her last night in Aruba; certainly not someone who'd be a regular CnC's customer.

Scott, He may very well have comitted the crime, no one knows. I just think (my own opinion) when he went to C&C's to meet her, committing a crime was probably not on his mind. If he regularly does these heinous acts, as a regular, with all this worldwide publicity, wouldn't another victim have come forward by now?
I'm not saying he was not involved - no one knows - and he most likely knows more than we have been told - I just think (whatever that is worth) that is was not planned before the meeting at C&cC's.

Maybe other victims have come forward.  We won't know until trial because under Dutch law, anything discussed in the media is inadmissable in court proceedings.

Also, sexually assaulting women on their last night of vacation is actually a scheme that is well-known in some places.  The women are too humiliated to postpone their return to their home, so they usually don't press charges or tell anyone about it.

[GreatOwl]

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/

[TTownMike]

DT - I think part of the questioning is that it's really rare to see a public case like this that is so completely controlled in terms of media coverage and image. Just thinking in comparison to say the Elizabeth Smart case where there were all sorts of runours and innuendoes and such - not condoning those but that's how the media operates and we don't see it here.

I also don't think it's that people find it hard to believe that there are good kids - I sure do believe there are good kids but I know that they are not perfect and more multidimensional than that - couple this with the image of "good kids with good morals" who go to Aruba for open bar all inclusive, casinos and Carlos and Charlie's at night ... it's an interesting picture of what our culture not considers "good."

And I think that that is part of what stirs interest in the case - we're seeing an image of acceptable or even "good" young adult behavior that is very different from the definition that many of us grew up with. This is not ... NOT ... blaming Natalee or the parents or anything like that - it's about Natalee as a symbol for a shift in our culture and how we react. These discussions are probably not meant for folks who are close to the situation itself - for you all, it's personal and about someone you know. But online, in a blog, etc it becomes also about ideas and broader cultural implications. One thing I value here is that I don't think anyone, no matter what their theory of the case, forgets that at the core is the disappearance of a lovely young woman who did not deserve whatever has happened to her - and I think we all ache for her and her family.

But you're missing the point no one is claiming anyone is perfect.  They're claiming she was a very good person with good morals.  Nothing we know yet contradicts that. We don't know how much she drank or even if she gambled.  I wouldn't be surprised if she did both of these things.  But I think that is entirely consistent with a person who has good morals.

DT, agreed!  No real evidense of any negative characteristics in Natalee! (Though some seem relentless in efforts to undermine her character)!

At the same time, Urine was seemingly "good kid"!  Im sure he has "charm" (see links around here to "psychopath") which if ya thank about it contributes to NAt being sucked in!  
And too, I see that no one seems to say that urine has done this before.  (But who knows how close he may have come with other TARGETS?)

[DT]

The woman's daughter DID tell her story to the MSM - it was Dash's mother who wrote that post.

Ok, sorry....I don't know who Dash is. My point is we have no idea if Natalee thought she was getting into a cab or her friends assumed she was getting into a cab. For all we know, Nat was comfortable enough with Joran to leave with him, or maybe not. If we had more statements from Nat's friends her name/reputation would not be in question. It seems like the MB folks are getting upset by what they're reading here, but we don't have enough information from the other students/friends to discount the rumors and speculations.

Thanks for calling me on my error though, Puggy. I love to be proven wrong.      

What more do you need?  Everyone I've heard talk about her who knew her said she was a good person.  Not a single person has brought forward any charges against her character.  Im not saying she was perfect, but her character as we hear it from her friends/family was better than the sort of accusations I keep hearing repeated.

[Anna]

Columbo--

I do not know yet how to post a quote but think they waste too much space anyway.  What few kids have granted interviews have had them twisted and have been misquoted.  They are just kids and are not accustomed to being interrogated or made to feel that they did something wrong as has happened in other interviews.  They have been harshly asked why they did not look out for their friend and things like that.  They had no idea what was going to happen.  If you were 17-18 and on national media with someone badgering you as to why you did not look out for a member of your group, what exactly would you say?

Interesting that some want the kids grilled far more than the suspects.  And no, these are not stepford kids and not perfect but the sure do not go out drinking and gambling every night, either.  Just not done in this part of the country.

They are also from very privileged families, some of the most privileged in the country, some of them.  They have condos on the beach, most all homes have nice swimming pools, many private planes, etc.  Joren would not be in their league in this country.  I seriously doubt NH was very impressed with him at all, contrary to what some think.  He was younger than her for one thing and she was a very mature girl for her age.  I think she tried to be friendly and this is where it got her.  And Boyz2Men is no biggie here, either.  Doubt she would even bother to attend if they were in B'ham.  My kids wouldn't for sure.  Most of those kids also spent the entire days on the beach.  They were not some desperate gang out for any and every thrill.  I know dozens of kids just like them who do not have to have the wild stuff to have a good life.  And I don't believe any bartender can remember the exact number of drinks served to every customer like that, either.  

So as I asked before, why trash the MB kids, the victim or her family?  I believe if there were any dirt it would have come out long before now and most of what I have seen is just pure fabrication of dirt/suspicion where none exists.  Believe it or not, lots of families do not have deep dark evil secrets but even if they did, so what?  Does that mean their daughter should be made to disappear and likely killed in some horrific manner?  What am I missing here?  

[Whitney]

goon squad wrote:
 
"<<Or, in other words... who MISLEAD the investigation since the beginning.>>

Yeah, like no searches tied to JVDS and the Kalpoes for a week and a half... totally Jug's call!"

What?  I don't understand what you're saying...?

A geat "post" to jump ahead on!...as the arlee states: (impliedly: 'why not? '....)... ...any reasonable 'thread person' would know arlee is to read in that regard....

However...I gave the reference last night...: If you were imprisoned bull of your faculties (and fully innocent of any crime...at least that you knew of;)  how long would you last?  

Let's bet!...and that's the sinister sort of line that, IMHO, this story line should begin upon...

[Itawamba]

The chaparone had contacted the DEA agent while they were in flight.

The DEA agent just happened to already be at the Holiday Inn on some other assignment and heard the commotion between the chaperone and others in the lobby, then offered his assistance.  That's how that part happened.

[iquitos]

http://www.picayuneitem.com/articles/2005/06/22/news/11friends.txt

[writenow]

Jorans official Bday August 6. 86. according to a cache of a sports roster for school it's June 8th,..take your pic

That can't be right.  If he was born August 6, 1986, that would make him 18 going on 19.

Aruban LE said Aug. 6, 1987 (and spelled out August). Maybe they're wrong. Which could explain a lot in this investigation.

Or it could have been written the european way 6/8/87 (they put day month year instead of american way of month day year) and someone got confused. But they've been identifying him as still 17, so i don't think his 18th b-day has occured yet.

[GuyWdog]

It's amazing the Enquierer can pst stuff like that and get away with it. Soounds like the Arubaian Police just need to contac the Enquiere..LoL..thanx for the link...

GuyWdog

[Rosalie]

Compananzi, per this link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160385,00.html, her friends say that she first met Joran  on the night of May 29th into May 30th. May 30th is when she was supposed to fly home.

I think those girls were flakes. Dash and others saw them talking on other days.

Why didn't the Aruban police hold all those kids for questioning?  They may have missed something by letting them leave.

I HOPE somebody can go back and look at this interview - it was the remote Greta did (from Aruba) w/ Frances Ellen Byrd and Ruth McVay (from Bham) about when Natalee actually met Joran.

I should have posted this DAYS ago, but didn't realize it would become such a big point of contention.

While watching that particular interview, I remember thinking "Greta, you screwed up asking that question and now you have them all confused."  I think Greta may have stumbled around a bit asking as well.  So, if ANYONE can go back and look at that, let me know what you think.  

I am pretty sure it will show that they were ALL confused and that the question was both asked and answered inconsistently.

When Natalee first went missing people started shifting blame to the adults that went on that trip.
I  HEARD ??  that they, adults, got a lawyer. It could be their lawyer told them and the kids to keep quiet.

[AZLady]

We have to trust that the FBI have gleaned all necessary info from the MB kids and have passed it along to the authorities in Aruba.  I have no doubt about this.  I don't need to hear from the MB kids to feel confident in this.  My curiosity and my interest about Natalee might make me want to talk to the MB kids, but I know that it's not a good idea--for the investigation and for the kids.

[iquitos]

http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml

[GreatOwl]

It's amazing the Enquierer can pst stuff like that and get away with it. Soounds like the Arubaian Police just need to contac the Enquiere..LoL..thanx for the link...

GuyWdog

your welcome, however, for those not familiar with this publication please read it as a mostly fictional work.  It may still reveal some names we have not seen as of yet.

[CancunMole]

CancunMole[/b]"]

If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point.

This, I'm sure will not be popular but, my dog wouldn't let Jug in my house with all his vinegar. To me, the way the vdSs' dogs reacted to strangers, told me volumes about them as people who live/brought the dogs up. Barking but tails awagin'.

CancunMole...sort of my point I'll be making...

If you saw the tape with Greta and Beth Holloway/Twitty making that surprise visit to the VDS-household...there was NO BARKING...in fact, there was tail-wagging behaviour by both of the dogs...and I think that voice was Beth HT's voice calling out, initially to the dogs, and then yelling, 'are you home?' to the inhabitants...all the dogs continued to wag their tales...with heads BOWED...

They knew that Beth had authority...there was NO DOUBT.

I think its sad some of you guys are afraid of Jug, a lot of hot air like Trump. I don't really care for that type of attitude, I wouldn't jump down his throat.. That is how they hide their emotions, don't cry or they will think you are weak. Trump says that to everyone.

Please, don't even mention Trump. I'm not afraid of Jug, I think he's an ah. I don't think he helps at all. My dog would not have liked any shrill voice, but I live in the "North".

[Whitney]

It has been pointed out repeatedly that her twin cousins were gambling with Joren in the casino earlier in the week.  No one ever said NH herself gambled and she may have been there just watching her cousins.  She probably saw Joren while there, however.   The friend who was there with her on Sunday said NH introduced herself to Joren which would indicate to me at least that this is when she met him.  Otherwise, her memory would be in pretty bad shape for one so young, wouldn't it?  Why would she introduce herself is she already knew him?  But he was a familiar face from hanging around the hotel casino so much.  But she introduced herself to him on Sunday according to the friend who was with her.  The same day she disappeared, although she had seen him around before that.

As for the oddity of BethH finding Joren so fast, I guess that is a shock to any who might see tourists as just a commodity with no family or roots or as being real people.  So many from Aruba seemed surprised to find the girl actually had concerned parents!  What is that about?  Did Joren think of tourists in this way?  Bet he was most surprised of all, if he did.

Some of the students who had stayed behind, maybe these same twins, identified Joren on the casino tape, locals provided his name from same.  Beth looked in the phone book and found the address for the residence from his name.  Apparently, there are not a lot of Van de Sloots listed and if they knew Joren's name at the casino, maybe they knew the father as well.  The chaparone had contacted the DEA agent while they were in flight.  The Senator contacted the FBI and I do believe a senator can locate an FBI agent even on a holiday would be my guess.  

It pays to have friends.  They can help and do things like this in a time of emergency.  

I'd just to prefer to "hang out with Anna"...that's what I'm doing for this moment...

[TTownMike]

CancunMole[/b]"]

If Jug said that, and AvdS is going to be detained, then I guess we know who's running the show.

AvdS wasn't on the island, so she couldn't see/hear anything. And anything that JvdS told her she doesn't have to reveal, so basically, there is no point.

This, I'm sure will not be popular but, my dog wouldn't let Jug in my house with all his vinegar. To me, the way the vdSs' dogs reacted to strangers, told me volumes about them as people who live/brought the dogs up. Barking but tails awagin'.

CancunMole...sort of my point I'll be making...

If you saw the tape with Greta and Beth Holloway/Twitty making that surprise visit to the VDS-household...there was NO BARKING...in fact, there was tail-wagging behaviour by both of the dogs...and I think that voice was Beth HT's voice calling out, initially to the dogs, and then yelling, 'are you home?' to the inhabitants...all the dogs continued to wag their tales...with heads BOWED...

They knew that Beth had authority...there was NO DOUBT.

I think its sad some of you guys are afraid of Jug, a lot of hot air like Trump. I don't really care for that type of attitude, I wouldn't jump down his throat.. That is how they hide their emotions, don't cry or they will think you are weak. Trump says that to everyone.

If anyone thinks Jug is outta line, FERGITTABOUTIT!
He is only admirable in his desperate search for his girl!  Others who may have found themselves in similar situations I'm sure look aty him with admiration for his strength!  As to he(they)and the media, if they didn't do the interviews where would the case be?  If they hadn't been there asap, where would the investigation be?  (1- lost in obsurity; 2- just another missing person report)  
They are wonderful parents doing all they can and appreciating all the help and support they are gittin!

SOTASPEAK!

[inspector_detector]

DT - I think part of the questioning is that it's really rare to see a public case like this that is so completely controlled in terms of media coverage and image. Just thinking in comparison to say the Elizabeth Smart case where there were all sorts of runours and innuendoes and such - not condoning those but that's how the media operates and we don't see it here.

I also don't think it's that people find it hard to believe that there are good kids - I sure do believe there are good kids but I know that they are not perfect and more multidimensional than that - couple this with the image of "good kids with good morals" who go to Aruba for open bar all inclusive, casinos and Carlos and Charlie's at night ... it's an interesting picture of what our culture not considers "good."

And I think that that is part of what stirs interest in the case - we're seeing an image of acceptable or even "good" young adult behavior that is very different from the definition that many of us grew up with. This is not ... NOT ... blaming Natalee or the parents or anything like that - it's about Natalee as a symbol for a shift in our culture and how we react. These discussions are probably not meant for folks who are close to the situation itself - for you all, it's personal and about someone you know. But online, in a blog, etc it becomes also about ideas and broader cultural implications. One thing I value here is that I don't think anyone, no matter what their theory of the case, forgets that at the core is the disappearance of a lovely young woman who did not deserve whatever has happened to her - and I think we all ache for her and her family.

But you're missing the point no one is claiming anyone is perfect.  They're claiming she was a very good person with good morals.  Nothing we know yet contradicts that. We don't know how much she drank or even if she gambled.  I wouldn't be surprised if she did both of these things.  But I think that is entirely consistent with a person who has good morals.

DT, agreed!  No real evidense of any negative characteristics in Natalee! (Though some seem relentless in efforts to undermine her character)!

At the same time, Urine was seemingly "good kid"!  Im sure he has "charm" (she links around her to psychopath) which if ya thank about it contributes to NAt being sucked in!  
And too, I see that no one seems to say that urine ha done this before.  (But who knows how close he may have come with other TARGETS?)

So just keep "Urine" and his dad in prison. And then we'll all be happy right? Since we all know he's guilty of raping and killing Natalee. The Twittys should all be happy and content and can go back home. What more could they have hoped for?