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Author Topic: RBN #26 NightCrew Sat/Sun  (Read 226509 times)
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Anna
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« Reply #480 on: June 26, 2005, 02:24:24 AM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "igsigs"
How can these guys hold up under such intense scrutiny and pressure? since i am too lazy to write out my whole theory on what happenned that night i thought i would just write out what specific charges the current suspects believe they would face if they told the truth.
imo

steve croes - drug dealing leading to death, obstruction

satish k. - body disposal, obstruction

deepak k. - drugs(middle man?) leading to death, body disposal, obstruction

PVDS - obstruction

JVDS - manslaughter, body disposal, obstruction.

in this scenerio, JVDS, Deepak and Croes do not talk because of the seriousness of the charges and PVDS and Satish do not talk to try and save son/brother.


Maybe it's because they're innocent? BTW why don't you list the "evidence" against them. Sorry, that was rhetorical question because there is no evidence...


Lying repeatedly is pretty good evidence against him if you ask me.  I don't know what he did, but he has something to hide otherwise he wouldn't be lying.


If everyone that ever told a lie was in jail, there would be a lot of people in jail.  Rolling Eyes



Well, if they tell a lie involving somebody's disappearance and likely death, I would imagine many of them are.  Called obstruction of justice and in this country it is a crime.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
iquitos
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« Reply #481 on: June 26, 2005, 02:24:28 AM »

http://www.postherald.com/nw062405.shtml

http://www.godesoto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7576&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

http://**/articles/2005/06/24/news/news1.txt

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050613/NEWS01/506130329/1002
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #482 on: June 26, 2005, 02:24:42 AM »

Quote from: "igsigs"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "igsigs"
How can these guys hold up under such intense scrutiny and pressure? since i am too lazy to write out my whole theory on what happenned that night i thought i would just write out what specific charges the current suspects believe they would face if they told the truth.
imo

steve croes - drug dealing leading to death, obstruction

satish k. - body disposal, obstruction

deepak k. - drugs(middle man?) leading to death, body disposal, obstruction

PVDS - obstruction

JVDS - manslaughter, body disposal, obstruction.

in this scenerio, JVDS, Deepak and Croes do not talk because of the seriousness of the charges and PVDS and Satish do not talk to try and save son/brother.


Maybe it's because they're innocent? BTW why don't you list the "evidence" against them. Sorry, that was rhetorical question because there is no evidence...


You saying that there is "no evidence" is the same as me saying that there "is evidence". neither of us know what LE has. i was just giving an opinion.


Well let's recount the "evidence" against the 2 security guards.

1. Natalee is missing - therefore you are accused of kidnapping and murder

2. The party boys said she was approached by a black security guard - you guys are black security guards - you're under arrest.

All I can say is that I'm thankfull I don't live in Aruba, or the Netherlands...
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Ladyhawke112
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« Reply #483 on: June 26, 2005, 02:24:44 AM »

Quote from: "puggywug"
Quote from: "Ladyhawke112"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "Ladyhawke112"

If he regularly does these heinous acts, as a regular, with all this worldwide publicity, wouldn't another victim have come forward by now?


Not if he strictly targeted girls who were already intoxicated, heading back to the States the next day.  A lawyer representing an American girl who was admittedly very drunk would have a rather difficult time getting a rape conviction against Joran in an Aruban court.

If there is any pattern to his behavior, I would also lean to believe that he boasts about his father's standing as a judge on island, thus further intimidating any girl who can't recall exactly what happened the previous night.


I was not talking about other victims in terms of them seeking conviction. It just seems likely if he regularly targeted intoxicated American girls leaving the next day - one of them might recognize his picture, which has been all over the news.  It seems that whether his father is a judge or just one-in-training at this point is moot, since he is also in custody. It's the perfect time for a victim of this supposed serial preditor to come forward and write the best-selling book! There hasn't been one - or even a fake one out to just make a buck - doesn't that fact strike you as interesting?

ONCE AGAIN, I repeat, how do you know no one has come forward? How would any of us know? We don't know ANY facts about the evidence because it is against Dutch law to reveal it.  Anything disclosed to the media is inadmissable in trial.   Smile


Well puggywug, violated Americans, having returned home, don't have to abide by Dutch law. They can freely talk, as they should to put the guilty away. As long as the Law enforcement/prosecutors/witnesses/attorneys and anyone else on Aruba apparently doesn't talk, the case will go on.
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TTownMike
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« Reply #484 on: June 26, 2005, 02:25:18 AM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Columbo--

I do not know yet how to post a quote but think they waste too much space anyway.  What few kids have granted interviews have had them twisted and have been misquoted.  They are just kids and are not accustomed to being interrogated or made to feel that they did something wrong as has happened in other interviews.  They have been harshly asked why they did not look out for their friend and things like that.  They had no idea what was going to happen.  If you were 17-18 and on national media with someone badgering you as to why you did not look out for a member of your group, what exactly would you say?

Interesting that some want the kids grilled far more than the suspects.  And no, these are not stepford kids and not perfect but the sure do not go out drinking and gambling every night, either.  Just not done in this part of the country.

They are also from very privileged families, some of the most privileged in the country, some of them.  They have condos on the beach, most all homes have nice swimming pools, many private planes, etc.  Joren would not be in their league in this country.  I seriously doubt NH was very impressed with him at all, contrary to what some think.  He was younger than her for one thing and she was a very mature girl for her age.  I think she tried to be friendly and this is where it got her.  And Boyz2Men is no biggie here, either.  Doubt she would even bother to attend if they were in B'ham.  My kids wouldn't for sure.  Most of those kids also spent the entire days on the beach.  They were not some desperate gang out for any and every thrill.  I know dozens of kids just like them who do not have to have the wild stuff to have a good life.  And I don't believe any bartender can remember the exact number of drinks served to every customer like that, either.  

So as I asked before, why trash the MB kids, the victim or her family?  I believe if there were any dirt it would have come out long before now and most of what I have seen is just pure fabrication of dirt/suspicion where none exists.  Believe it or not, lots of families do not have deep dark evil secrets but even if they did, so what?  Does that mean their daughter should be made to disappear and likely killed in some horrific manner?  What am I missing here?   Shocked


Again GO ANNA!  And you hit it bullseye:"I think she tried to be friendly and this is where it got her"!  She messed up!
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DT
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« Reply #485 on: June 26, 2005, 02:25:41 AM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "igsigs"
How can these guys hold up under such intense scrutiny and pressure? since i am too lazy to write out my whole theory on what happenned that night i thought i would just write out what specific charges the current suspects believe they would face if they told the truth.
imo

steve croes - drug dealing leading to death, obstruction

satish k. - body disposal, obstruction

deepak k. - drugs(middle man?) leading to death, body disposal, obstruction

PVDS - obstruction

JVDS - manslaughter, body disposal, obstruction.

in this scenerio, JVDS, Deepak and Croes do not talk because of the seriousness of the charges and PVDS and Satish do not talk to try and save son/brother.


Maybe it's because they're innocent? BTW why don't you list the "evidence" against them. Sorry, that was rhetorical question because there is no evidence...


Lying repeatedly is pretty good evidence against him if you ask me.  I don't know what he did, but he has something to hide otherwise he wouldn't be lying.


If everyone that ever told a lie was in jail, there would be a lot of people in jail.  Rolling Eyes


So you are telling me that his repeated lying regarding the disappearence of a missing girl is not evidence against him?  Maybe he is innocent, but his lying has killed any credibility he has and has logically made him the prime suspect in the case.
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writenow
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« Reply #486 on: June 26, 2005, 02:25:50 AM »

Quote from: "Anna"
As to the confusion about when NH met Joren, ever talk to somebody without knowing their name or anything about them?  This might especially happen in a place where you do not know many people.  Ever talk to the clerk at the Dry Cleaners or the supermarket without knowing their name nor they yours except maybe from your check or receipt?

Ever speak to the people in the next cabin on a cruise without knowing all about them?  Just say hi in passing?  The point is not that NH never spoke to Joren at all but that they did not even know each others names until the Sunday that she disappeared despite having seen each other around.  If they had, it would have been pretty odd for her to introduce herself as her friend says she did on Sunday.

That is unless, again, there is some implication the the MB kid is just lying about it for no real reason at all.  Why would she lie that NH told Joren her name on Sunday if that did not happen?  Just to get herself grilled more about it?  I doubt it.


Yeah, Anna, I think you've got it.
I was confused because the accounts seemed to conflict, but when you think about it, they don't.
The one article said Bryan Reynolds from MBHS broke up a fight at Carlos'nCharlies' the SECOND night they were there. That was Friday night May 27. Then someone said he'd been hanging around the group for a couple of days. He was probably at CnCs and the Holiday Inn Saturday night, and we know he was there Sunday night at HI with his dad which is when Natalee introduced herself.
So what everyone said is true, we've just been assuming Nat introduced herself the first time she saw him. And obviously from the accounts, that's not true.
Also, Joran got into a shoving match with the MBHS kids Sat night/Sun Morning -- so that means he got into it TWICE with them.
Now I"m starting to wonder if maybe all this factored in with Natalee somehow. Something to prove to the MB guys? Ego and temper out of control?
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AZLady
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« Reply #487 on: June 26, 2005, 02:26:08 AM »

Quote from: "CancunMole


I may be behind because of my dial up connection but believe me, I'm not BEHIND. This girl's mother has from the get go been IMOO, been beyond involvement. I personally question what the motives are? I have bolded my question so there is no other question about what I am asking. I'm from Maine originally and I'm sick of the BS. Dash is no more a confidant of NH than ED. Did no one else (with the replay, not get that ED deviated from the script?)


Cancun, the motives are a mother's love for her daughter!  I bolded the answer so there is no doubt about the answer.  I am a mother of a 21 year old, and I would do the same.  When I mentioned to my daughter that I admired Beth H. Twitty for her strength in the face of incredible pain, my daughter said "Mom, you would do the same!"
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Whitney
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« Reply #488 on: June 26, 2005, 02:26:22 AM »

Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "arubagirl"
Whitney, per another poster he can be tried as an adult.

And with that I'm going to bed.

Good night all.


Nite arubagirl! Thanks for hanging with us!


 so why're you posting on this board Whitney?

whitney:...for now other reason that I came onto, now, saw two of my favs on this board, an Arubagirl...and a writenow type of person...OK? (don't quote me though...IMHO)
...

Look, it's so very difficult to do HTML on the fly as well as as...you know the story....and you have to spell wrods...LOL...

kisses and hugs, whitney[b/]
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CancunMole
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« Reply #489 on: June 26, 2005, 02:27:47 AM »

Quote from: "Red"
Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "CancunMole"
I am convinced that the "young adults", not "kids" who have appeared on National TV have a prepared "script". Therefore, therefore there should be the number of inconsistnecises we heard.


Apparently you haven't met our little Dash.

No scripts, Cancun. You're reaching here.


What many of you may not be understanding is that the AL teens that went on TV did not have scripts. Actually just the opposite that I would defer to arlee to explain if she wishes. It has been researched and backed up by calls that I have made.

Maybe the teens that everyone wants to hear from would go on the MSM shows if they were treated with respect and told the truth. These teens committed no crime yet they are sometimes given a harder time than they actual suspects in this case.

Do not confuse nervousness and bewilderment with inconsistencies.


SORRY RED, I don''t believe that! I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THEM WHO WERE ON THIS TRIP WERE IN FACT GIVEN A SCRIPT TO FOLLOW.
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puggywug
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« Reply #490 on: June 26, 2005, 02:28:34 AM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Well, if they tell a lie involving somebody's disappearance and likely death, I would imagine many of them are.  Called obstruction of justice and in this country it is a crime.


ANNA,
Check your PM  Smile
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AZLady
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« Reply #491 on: June 26, 2005, 02:29:32 AM »

Quote from: "CancunMole"


SORRY RED, I don''t believe that! I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THEM WHO WERE ON THIS TRIP WERE IN FACT GIVEN A SCRIPT TO FOLLOW.


WHY?
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Compananzi
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« Reply #492 on: June 26, 2005, 02:30:16 AM »

Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "Anna"
Columbo--

I do not know yet how to post a quote but think they waste too much space anyway.  What few kids have granted interviews have had them twisted and have been misquoted.  They are just kids and are not accustomed to being interrogated or made to feel that they did something wrong as has happened in other interviews.  They have been harshly asked why they did not look out for their friend and things like that.  They had no idea what was going to happen. If you were 17-18 and on national media with someone badgering you as to why you did not look out for a member of your group, what exactly would you say?

Interesting that some want the kids grilled far more than the suspects.  And no, these are not stepford kids and not perfect but the sure do not go out drinking and gambling every night, either.  Just not done in this part of the country.

They are also from very privileged families, some of the most privileged in the country, some of them.  They have condos on the beach, most all homes have nice swimming pools, many private planes, etc.  Joren would not be in their league in this country.  I seriously doubt NH was very impressed with him at all, contrary to what some think.  He was younger than her for one thing and she was a very mature girl for her age.  I think she tried to be friendly and this is where it got her.  And Boyz2Men is no biggie here, either.  Doubt she would even bother to attend if they were in B'ham.  My kids wouldn't for sure.  Most of those kids also spent the entire days on the beach.  They were not some desperate gang out for any and every thrill.  I know dozens of kids just like them who do not have to have the wild stuff to have a good life.  And I don't believe any bartender can remember the exact number of drinks served to every customer like that, either.  

So as I asked before, why trash the MB kids, the victim or her family?  I believe if there were any dirt it would have come out long before now and most of what I have seen is just pure fabrication of dirt/suspicion where none exists.  Believe it or not, lots of families do not have deep dark evil secrets but even if they did, so what?  Does that mean their daughter should be made to disappear and likely killed in some horrific manner?  What am I missing here?   Shocked


Just want to quote/save this post for my own...she's special!


You make a perfect case of Joran being innocent, he is 17, and he has not confessed during interrogation...could it be that is telling the truth, for get the stories changing I can see either a panic since the next day the girl dissapeared, you can see why as story can seem like he is lying but it may have been twisted by police misinfomation and sloppy reporting of MSM?
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Getagrip
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« Reply #493 on: June 26, 2005, 02:30:24 AM »

Quote from: "CancunMole"
[SORRY RED, I don''t believe that! I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THEM WHO WERE ON THIS TRIP WERE IN FACT GIVEN A SCRIPT TO FOLLOW.

You're entitled to your opinion, CM. But in my own estimation, that's not the case. In fact, were they to have a script, we wouldn't have found any inconsistencies amongst their statements.
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DT
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« Reply #494 on: June 26, 2005, 02:30:36 AM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "CancunMole"


SORRY RED, I don''t believe that! I BELIEVE THAT ALL OF THEM WHO WERE ON THIS TRIP WERE IN FACT GIVEN A SCRIPT TO FOLLOW.


WHY?


Because he is just like every other cynical conspiracy theorist on this board, they want to believe the worst and most ridiculous things possible.
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #495 on: June 26, 2005, 02:31:59 AM »

Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "igsigs"
How can these guys hold up under such intense scrutiny and pressure? since i am too lazy to write out my whole theory on what happenned that night i thought i would just write out what specific charges the current suspects believe they would face if they told the truth.
imo

steve croes - drug dealing leading to death, obstruction

satish k. - body disposal, obstruction

deepak k. - drugs(middle man?) leading to death, body disposal, obstruction

PVDS - obstruction

JVDS - manslaughter, body disposal, obstruction.

in this scenerio, JVDS, Deepak and Croes do not talk because of the seriousness of the charges and PVDS and Satish do not talk to try and save son/brother.


Maybe it's because they're innocent? BTW why don't you list the "evidence" against them. Sorry, that was rhetorical question because there is no evidence...


Lying repeatedly is pretty good evidence against him if you ask me.  I don't know what he did, but he has something to hide otherwise he wouldn't be lying.


If everyone that ever told a lie was in jail, there would be a lot of people in jail.  Rolling Eyes


So you are telling me that his repeated lying regarding the disappearence of a missing girl is not evidence against him?  Maybe he is innocent, but his lying has killed any credibility he has and has logically made him the prime suspect in the case.


I'm saying that there is NO evidence in this case. The Aruban police should be looking for evidence, and not arresting someone's father to try to force a confession out of someone...
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puggywug
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« Reply #496 on: June 26, 2005, 02:32:10 AM »

Quote from: "Ladyhawke112"
Quote from: "puggywug"
Quote from: "Ladyhawke112"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "Ladyhawke112"

If he regularly does these heinous acts, as a regular, with all this worldwide publicity, wouldn't another victim have come forward by now?

Not if he strictly targeted girls who were already intoxicated, heading back to the States the next day.  A lawyer representing an American girl who was admittedly very drunk would have a rather difficult time getting a rape conviction against Joran in an Aruban court.
If there is any pattern to his behavior, I would also lean to believe that he boasts about his father's standing as a judge on island, thus further intimidating any girl who can't recall exactly what happened the previous night.

I was not talking about other victims in terms of them seeking conviction. It just seems likely if he regularly targeted intoxicated American girls leaving the next day - one of them might recognize his picture, which has been all over the news.  It seems that whether his father is a judge or just one-in-training at this point is moot, since he is also in custody. It's the perfect time for a victim of this supposed serial preditor to come forward and write the best-selling book! There hasn't been one - or even a fake one out to just make a buck - doesn't that fact strike you as interesting?

ONCE AGAIN, I repeat, how do you know no one has come forward? How would any of us know? We don't know ANY facts about the evidence because it is against Dutch law to reveal it.  Anything disclosed to the media is inadmissable in trial.   Smile

Well puggywug, violated Americans, having returned home, don't have to abide by Dutch law. They can freely talk, as they should to put the guilty away. As long as the Law enforcement/prosecutors/witnesses/attorneys and anyone else on Aruba apparently doesn't talk, the case will go on.

I definately see what you're saying.  What I am saying is that maybe there are Americans allegedly violated by him who have contacted authorities and the prosecutors building the case against Joran are asking them to keep it under wraps until trial when they can testify against him to establish a pattern of behavior **IF THAT IS THE CASE - I'm not saying it is, this is totally hypothetical**  Smile
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sunmoonstars
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« Reply #497 on: June 26, 2005, 02:32:31 AM »

Is anyone seeing the quote from the news article that I have posted twice? Some keep saying the MB students weren't asked not to speak, well according to them, they were.
Reynolds didn't elaborate, and Barron said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation.
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Getagrip
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« Reply #498 on: June 26, 2005, 02:32:52 AM »

Quote from: "CancunMole"
I personally question what the motives are? I have bolded my question so there is no other question about what I am asking. I'm from Maine originally and I'm sick of the BS. Dash is no more a confidant of NH than ED. Did no one else (with the replay, not get that ED deviated from the script?)

Coming back to this, can we ask what your motivations are?
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igsigs
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« Reply #499 on: June 26, 2005, 02:33:06 AM »

Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "DT"
Quote from: "inspector_detector"
Quote from: "igsigs"
How can these guys hold up under such intense scrutiny and pressure? since i am too lazy to write out my whole theory on what happenned that night i thought i would just write out what specific charges the current suspects believe they would face if they told the truth.
imo

steve croes - drug dealing leading to death, obstruction

satish k. - body disposal, obstruction

deepak k. - drugs(middle man?) leading to death, body disposal, obstruction

PVDS - obstruction

JVDS - manslaughter, body disposal, obstruction.

in this scenerio, JVDS, Deepak and Croes do not talk because of the seriousness of the charges and PVDS and Satish do not talk to try and save son/brother.


Maybe it's because they're innocent? BTW why don't you list the "evidence" against them. Sorry, that was rhetorical question because there is no evidence...


Lying repeatedly is pretty good evidence against him if you ask me.  I don't know what he did, but he has something to hide otherwise he wouldn't be lying.


If everyone that ever told a lie was in jail, there would be a lot of people in jail.  :roll:



Yea...but...if 5 people tell five different lies and a young girl's life is at stake - they should be in jail.
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