RBN #26 NightCrew Sat/Sun

[JolietteGA]

Thank you for allowing me to become part of this discussion.

Has anyone figured out what PVDS said in the interview to incriminate himself?

[Shell]

Dash was here earlier in the day, and made of point of clarifying that she was NOT a close friend of Natalies. I think Dash and her mom are truely upset, as we all are, that a vibrant young girl is missing without a trace.

[LouLou]

THe first reports said she went to the BOYZIIMEN concert, and then out to eat at CnC's. I'm not sure of the timeline.

CnC's stops serving food at ll p.m.

[waited_too_long]

Dash was here earlier in the day, and made of point of clarifying that she was NOT a close friend of Natalies. I think Dash and her mom are truely upset, as we all are, that a vibrant young girl is missing without a trace.

Thanks for that update. Who is she posting as? I have not seen any posts from --- since just before the Gretta VS interview on the 20th.

[CancunMole]

Delayed reaction; Right. Not only have I listened to Dash (see my previous comments on ED) put I've watched the frantic postings of her mother, first as arbeej and now as arlee. I this a frantic mmother attempting recognition for her daughter? I don't know about the rest of you, but having tutored someone inCalculsuor anyhting else, never made me someoon's "closee friend". you?

To my recollection, Dash never claimed to be close friends with Natalee.

Well, Dash(if ya thankaboutit) was purty dadgum spercific in describing her relationship with Nat!  And I for one would develop a purty good feelin about anyone I spend that much time with!  I blieve Dash!

Oh then, I am blind.

[Shell]

I forgot the nic...  but i thought it was dash, saying she wanted to clarify it that she was not a close friend. Gawd i read so much today...i could be wrong..but someone said it..sheesh...and my brain thought it was dash...

[JolietteGA]

This may have been said, but I think that it wasn't what PVDS said in the interview, but what his wife said during the interview.

[waited_too_long]

I forgot the nic...  but i thought it was dash, saying she wanted to clarify it that she was not a close friend. Gawd i read so much today...i could be wrong..but someone said it..sheesh...and my brain thought it was dash...

Thanks for your clarification. It seems -- from her Mom's comments -- that she felt somewhat blindsided by that interview and has not posted here since.

[mojo]

according an interview FOX did - with Justice Minister Rudy Croes PVDS has been detained to pressure Joran. you can find it here.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160699,00.html

[EdwinW]

I have a gov report by a committe expressing concerns that 16-18 y.o.'s can be tried as adults according to the nature of the crime. Unless the laws have he could be tried as an adult relative to the nature of the charge, like in US.

That's true. Under some circumstances it is possible for 16 and 17 year old children to be punished as adults. That is sometimes possible (not always) when it concerns murder.

[EdwinW]

Edwin - your location sounds similar to my own.

Apparently in holland as in france, there is some sort of thing as an attorney of instruction - basically a guy that handles the paperwork and court hearings etc.

 .... well .... it is some kind of joke (bad joke, I know). I do not live in Kopenhagen (country of Denmark) nor do I live in Paris (country of France). My personal experience (been in the US three times) is that some (or most?) people do not know where to find The Netherlands in Europe .

Speaking with a Dutch friend of mine and trying to explain this situation, he said that this is how the current attorneys appeared to him - not much access to their clients but doing all the legal work at this stage until they are charged?? does this make sense to you

I'm not sure exactly with this case, but sometimes an attorney is the only person who may visit a suspect. That's to prevent that one or more people who might be involved, tries to spread some information that could interfere with the investigation.  That is also the reason why you do not hear many details about Joran van der S. and his friends. I am not sure how this goes in the US, but in The Netherlands it is not allowed to publish many details about an investigation (the police will simply not give you this kind of information as this is the same with NH). And I do understand that this situation probably doesn't make sense for US citizens when I read all these comments on this forum.

At this very moment, one of our most famous soccer players (Robin van Persie @ http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SPORT/football/06/16/arsenal.vanpersie.reut/index.html) is held in custody for raping an 21 year old girl. Everyone knows this soccer player. And as stated earlier, only a few fact are brought to the media (officially we still do not know the name of this girl). During investigation, there are NO comments on this rape and his attorney is the ONLY one who may visit him in jail.

[mojo]

thanks for your answer, Edwin - know holland well and have been going there regularly for nearly 30 years.   even the fortuyn, van gogh and fireworks explosions didn't get this much attention.

the media frenzy that typifies the american press these days is spear headed by murdoch - he does it with FOX in the US, his papers in the UK and australia. can china and india be far behind. i see he's even visiting putin today...heaven help us all.

[roxyluv]

Morning everyone, is there any news or updates from the Texas group yet?

[Microcephalic]

The suppsed Deepak e-mail may contain a cover story, that being that the three boys dropped Natalee off at the HI, but it is just too close to the truth not to be taken seriously.  It has been cooberated by several students on the trip, second hand accounts as relayed by Deepak’s and Joran’s mother and other facts.  If it was not written by Deepak, it was written by someone with detailed knowledge of what happened that night.

I believe the account given in the e-mail, with exception of the dropping NH off at the HI is more or less accurate.  NH met Joran at the blackjack table at the HI Casino the evening that she disappeared.  She approached him and asked her to place some bets for her.  She more or less invited him to go to C&C’s later that evening.  On these events the interview with 2 students, who were in the Casino at the time, and description given in the e-mail are identical.

We then have Joran at McD’s calling for a ride home.  Much has been said about this.  How did he get there?  Why did he go there?  I don’t think it really matters.  His cell phone would not work in the Casino so he probably walked over and had a Big Mac while he waiting for his father to pick him up.  In any case, Joran returns home and makes arrangements with the Kalpoe boys to go to C&C’s.   Much has also been said regarding this.  These boys must be evil and up to no good to sneak out on a school night and go to a bar, right?  I don’t think anything more is required than Joran just met a cute American girl who apparently came on to him or at least invited him to go to C&C’s, he liked her and he wanted to go.

So Joran, Deepak and Satish head over to C&C’s in DEEPAK’s car.  This is important given that Joran’s families cars wer later seized but no mention of Deepak’s car being seized.  Perhaps I missed that.  In any case, Natalee is already there, appearing to be somewhat under the influence, having a good time, but not appearing to be on some harder drug(s).  It is already close to closing by the time the boys get there so they quickly order a round of drinks before last call.  This makes the date rape drug theory even more unlikely.  The bar closes and the students head back to the hotel.  Natalee, who is described as coherent by other students, leaves voluntarily with the boys.  She is seen by other students who apparently call for her to get out of the car, a fact confirmed by the e-mail and student accounts and Deepak gives her that opportunity.

So we have the four of them cruising in Deepak’s car.  The boy’s stories and the e-mail suggest that they drove to the lighthouse.  I don’t think it is important whether they did or did not.  If a sinister plan had been hatched by the boys at this point then it is unlikely that the Kalpoe’s would have dropped Natalee and Joran off anywhere alone.  They would obviously have stayed with him.  And yet they did not.  Why would Joran be calling and text messaging Deepak and hour or so later for a ride home if they had not dropped him off somewhere earlier?  If they were involved with some sort of plot it seems likely that they would have stayed with Joran and done whatever they planned to do.  The fact that they did drop them off suggests to me that their involvement in this is limited to the fact that they attempted to help Joran hide something.  That is why they are in jail.  This has been confirmed by Marianne Croes who has stated yesterday that they are being held because their “stories did not check out”.  In fact she made the same statement regarding all of the suspects.

So Joran and Natalee are dropped off at the beach.  The  Marriot beach seems likely.  It is close to the HI and is private.  What happens now is anyone’s guess however it is clear that the Kalpoes are not involved.  By the way, the security guard, who did not lie and had no reason to lie and is now free as a result also confirms these events having heard one of the Kalpoes stating that he never should have dropped Natalee off alone with Joran.

There are many theories regarding what happened on the beach and only one person that can possibly shed any light on that, perhaps two if Natalee is still alive, or more if others were involved.  In any case I believe that Joran had no premeditated plan to do anything at that point other than to perhaps have sex with this girl.  It is possible that he murdered her but I think this is unlikely.  It does not seem like he would have to resort to rape to make love to women.  He is a young, some, apparently including Natalee, would say he is attractive, any lives in a place where thousands of young girls come through every week.  Rape or attempted rape and fear of prosecution thereof would be the only motive that I can envision but I just don’t see it.  It would have been her word against his and she went with him voluntarily.

Some kind of accident is more likely.  If this is the case then Joran has made the mistake of his life as he should have, called for help,  reported it and told the truth.  And why wouldn’t he?  Because he had sex with her?  No likely.  He could have just said it was consensual and if he did perhaps it was.  If she had died there would have been no one to dispute him.  Because he drugged her?  Also not likely.  He does not seem to have had the opportunity to do this or at least very little opportunity.  If there was an accident he covered it up he did it because he was stupid.

Perhaps Joran’s only crime is that he is a complete asshole and left a drunk passed out girl on the beach and then lied about it.  And parties unkonwn  are responsible for her disappearance.  Steve Croes?  His connection to this case is totally unknown.  It is anyone’s guess without facts.  And facts are clearly not readily available to us or to the police.  Agaian, Marianne Croes has stated that all 5 suspects are being held because their stories didn’t check out.  Not because we have clear evidence to suspect them of the crime.  This is unfortunate.  Joran may or may not hold the key.  Without a body or any clear evidence that a crime has been commited I would not be surprised to see any or all of these people released this morning except for the pressure being placed on the police to solve this disappearance and place the blame on someone.  I hope she is found, dead or alive.  It is a big Island with lots of dessert and coastline.  Not very difficult for someone to dispose of a body.  The search and recovery people have their work cut out for them.

[momto5]

Morning everyone. Have there been any new developments or anything since last night? I was on last night for a couple of hours reading but didnt post...so just wondering whats going on.
Thanks  

[MiamiMe]

but Dash says there weren't really close in her post here - so why didn't she say that to O'Reilly?



Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:25 am    
Yeah, Ive known her for a few years, but we werent really close until this year. She's an amazing person... she's the reason I was able to pass Calculus! I cant wait till she gets home. I really think when she does, she should get help for whatever she's been through and then write a book. The girl's a serious genius.[/b]

She said they weren't realy close UNTIL this year. I'm sure they became friends after the tutorials......

*Folks ANYBODY can POST as someone else ONLINE!

You got Igcognito saying that the father ISSS a judge when he's not a judge. An Aruban Judge was on Fox last night and stated that the father FAILED the test. Take everyone with a grain of salt ONLINE until they show some FACTS to back it up.

[mojo]

no developments roxyluv and momto5 - but i'm getting the feeling that they're stalled.

rudy croes apparently said on FOX last night in an interview that PVDS was brought in to pressure Joran. i didn't see it, but that's what the article on their site says.

[momto5]

no developments roxyluv and momto5 - but i'm getting the feeling that they're stalled.

rudy croes apparently said on FOX last night in an interview that PVDS was brought in to pressure Joran. i didn't see it, but that's what the article on their site says.

Yes I saw the interview also. I honestly dont think Rudy Croes knows whats going on and was simply speculating. I found it bothersome though that anyone would be brought in simply to pressure their child. I dont think PVDS is going to be forth coming at all, and from all "inside sources" he isnt. he knows the laws, even if he wasnt a judge he studied the ins and outs of them, and obviously would know his rights during interrogation. Myself I think it was kinda lame to arrest him. They might have gotten more info if in fact he is involved by continuing to tail him and bug his house. You cant tell me they didnt know he would stop talking once arrested? Atleast he was talking on camera before. Again JMO

[roxyluv]

So they arested Papa just to put pressure on Joran sounds a little unethical.
So they have no suspicion that papa may be involved, it almost sounds like if they do find out the truth all those involved will walk because the lawyers will throw everything out.
I now the laws are different there but...

[pinemeadows]

Morning everyone, is there any news or updates from the Texas group yet?

Morning...there's a brief update on Page 31....nothing startling.