RBN #27 6/26/05 Sun-Day

[HannieC]

There was a conversation about the name of Greta a couple of days ago Edwin...

It indeed sounds very dutch not german... or it is changed furhter back by her family from VON to VAN that`s possible and that she has either a dutch or german heiritage

[inthepacific]

I don't get faux. I only get CNN. What I have found is they both report the REAL breaking news at the same time..as I've seen people here make a post from fox, i've got it too at the same time with CNN.

I think the only differance is, is that Greta is their and reporting with the family. I think that is the only differance between those 2 stations. But then again, CNN has had many interviews as well with the family. So the question is, is Greta bringing more viewers to fox?

JMHO

[puggywug]

REGARDING FOX RATINGS:
I was completely wrong, and I apologize to Scott and others.  FOX News Channel does outperform the other cable news channels.  Sorry I doubted it.  Now I'm a little frightened, though...

[momto5]

I lost faith in the MSM a long time ago. Thanks to the web, if there is a big story I check the British, Canadian and Aussie news to get a wider view point. Actually, my lack of faith in unbias news from the MSM is why I ended up on a few blogs like this one.

This is an excellent point and a question to the rest of you:  have you found more info on blogs like this one about this case that you believe? Or do you think most of what's out there is blantant gossip and rumor mongering?  What can be done by bloggers to make the latter more believable?

Note:  By blogs, I do NOT mean this forum.  I mean actual blogs like the www.scaredmonkeys.com site.

I have been getting most of my news off blogs for awhile. I have 5 kids just as my name suggests so it isnt always easy for me to watch the news on TV. I have found that the news from blogs are more accurate and reliable most of the time. It is always easier also to read through without having someone elses opinion interrupt what your watching. I also like being able to read about a topic without a commercial break or having to hear "More after this break". I simply dont have the time to sit around and wait to hear. Of course there is always some gossip, but that is mainly in my opinion under user comments or discussion boards like this one. You have to expect that though under those sections. I honestly cant say what anyone can do to make anything "better". All I can say is I do enjoy this blog and a few others.

[hope]

Do any of you guys agree that this was and has been a set up all along when NH befriended Joran- he knew that she was an innocent/naive american- probably somewhat shy and IMO they knew that they were going to get her all along- MPO... any thoughts please

[~TAZ_MAN~]

Also from Kock, on camera a few minutes ago on FOX (paraphrasing):
Joran's story is that Deepak came to pick him up, when Deepak denied this, he changed it to Satish, who also denies this. Kock says that the fact that J keeps changing his story would lead one to logically conclude that he has something to hide. Brothers admit that they initially lied to protect J, but that the brothers' story hasn't changed since they said they dropped off J at the Marriott beach.

Hmmmm.

Joran is wanting to get away from the scene of the crime as soon as possible.  If he had just left her there, then thats all he did and there wouldnt be the need to create a story about someone giving him a ride.

[SunnyinTX]

I hope that Mr. Croes' family will be able to arrange safe conduct for him to an off-island undisclosed location for a while.

As several people have pointed out, there are US nationals currently in Aruba who might wish to do him harm.

Now that his mother has been on TV, and I believe an uncle, it would probably be better if they accompany him.

Re: SC's  mother...I heard that she had not seen him for a year? I wonder why? Where does she live? Did anyone else see that?  Also she told the press that when she talked, she would talk to the Aruban (press, I am assuming) first.

edited for stupid errors..;-(

[RB]

It is always easier also to read through without having someone elses opinion interrupt what your watching.

I can soooo relate to this, mom

[nancy_drew]

I lost faith in the MSM a long time ago. Thanks to the web, if there is a big story I check the British, Canadian and Aussie news to get a wider view point. Actually, my lack of faith in unbias news from the MSM is why I ended up on a few blogs like this one.

This is an excellent point and a question to the rest of you:  have you found more info on blogs like this one about this case that you believe? Or do you think most of what's out there is blantant gossip and rumor mongering?  What can be done by bloggers to make the latter more believable?

Note:  By blogs, I do NOT mean this forum.  I mean actual blogs like the www.scaredmonkeys.com site.

I am in full support of blogs and blogging...as I stated here recently blogs have broken some great stories that MSM has put their nose up at.  However, I have to say most blogs engage in too much hearsay to be fully respected as a firm news source.  

Even our beloved sites Scared Monkeys and Dan's site, have both done some rumor mongering...IMO.

I find blogs sometimes think they are above or below journalistic standards.  I disagree with that thinking.  There are jounalistic standards for blogging and these guidelines should be follwed if blogs want to find regular respect.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

REGARDING FOX RATINGS:
I was completely wrong, and I apologize to Scott and others.  FOX News Channel does outperform the other cable news channels.  Sorry I doubted it.  Now I'm a little frightened, though...

LOL  I have watched the other stations.. and to me they ALL report pretty much the same things. and YES.. there are things on FOX I dont care for.. but I chose one station to watch or listen to.. rather then sit with the remote and flick back and forth.. Im too old...lol
 ALOT of people dont get FOX and have ASKED themselves to please post whatever is being said when its on!!  I am not glued to the tv 24/7.. just trying to help!!  

[hope]

I hope that Mr. Croes' family will be able to arrange safe conduct for him to an off-island undisclosed location for a while.

As several people have pointed out, there are US nationals currently in Aruba who might wish to do him harm.

Now that his mother has been on TV, and I believe an uncle, it would probably be better if they accompany him.

Re: SC's  mother...I heard that she had not seen him for a year?  SO I wonder why?  Did anyone else see that?  Also she told the press that when she talked she would take to the Aruban (press, I am assuming) first.

Yes I heard that- and I hope they do respect her privacy..

[HannieC]

Getagrip wrote:

Also from Kock, on camera a few minutes ago on FOX (paraphrasing):
Joran's story is that Deepak came to pick him up, when Deepak denied this, he changed it to Satish, who also denies this. Kock says that the fact that J keeps changing his story would lead one to logically conclude that he has something to hide. Brothers admit that they initially lied to protect J, but that the brothers' story hasn't changed since they said they dropped off J at the Marriott beach.

Hmmmm.

It could also mean that joran talked about before they were going to C&C who picked him up satish or both and who drove...

[iquitos]

Zwijgrecht  right to remain silent

Een verdachte is niet tot antwoorden verplicht en dient voor verhoor te worden gewezen op zijn recht om te zwijgen. Het zwijgrecht komt voort uit het elementaire rechtsprincipe dat niemand aan zijn eigen veroordeling hoeft mee te werken. Niemand mag tegen zijn zin gedwongen worden een verklaring af te leggen. Het zwijgrecht geldt niet voor de getuige.

Jeugdcriminaliteit youth criminality

Jeugdcriminaliteit omvat zogenaamd opgroeigedrag waarbij zo nu en dan de normen worden overschreden. Kinderen, pubers en adolescenten hebben nu eenmaal de normale (gezonde) neiging om te experimenteren en grenzen te verkennen. Maar het kan ook gaan om ernstiger vormen van strafbaar gedrag, bijvoorbeeld het veelvuldig en stelselmatig plegen van delicten, om er een dure levensstijl op na te kunnen houden of om deel te kunnen uitmaken van een groep waarin delinquent gedrag de groepsnorm is.
Momenteel richten twee programma's zich op de aanpak van Jeugdcriminaliteit. Dit zijn Jeugd terecht en Operatie Jong.


De verdachte in het Nederlandse strafrecht  the suspect in Dutch law

[bewerken]
Wie is verdachte
Een verdachte is iemand ten aanzien van wie het redelijk vermoeden bestaat dat hij een bepaald strafbaar feit gepleegd heeft. Het Wetboek van Strafvordering formuleert dit als volgt:
artikel 27
Lid 1: Als verdachte wordt vóórdat de vervolging is aangevangen, aangemerkt degene te wiens aanzien uit feiten of omstandigheden een redelijk vermoeden van schuld aan eenig strafbaar feit voortvloeit.
Lid 2: Daarna wordt als verdachte aangemerkt degene tegen wien de vervolging is gericht.
[bewerken]
De rechten van de verdachte
Elke verdachte heeft bepaalde rechten. Dit is geregeld in het Wetboek van Strafvordering (Eerste Boek, titel II).
Deze rechten zijn onder andere:
Het recht op een zelfgekozen raadsman (zie artikel 28, lid 1 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht op contact met zijn raadsman (zie artikel 28, lid 2 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht om te zwijgen (zie artikel 29, lid 1 Wetboek van Strafvordering)
Het recht om kennis te nemen van de processtukken (toegang tot sommige stukken kan echter geweigerd worden indien het belang van het onderzoek dat vordert)
Categorieën: Rechtspraak | Persoon naar eigenschap

More dutch procedure

[sandraK]

I hope that Mr. Croes' family will be able to arrange safe conduct for him to an off-island undisclosed location for a while.

As several people have pointed out, there are US nationals currently in Aruba who might wish to do him harm.

Now that his mother has been on TV, and I believe an uncle, it would probably be better if they accompany him.

Re: SC's  mother...I heard that she had not seen him for a year?  SO I wonder why?  Did anyone else see that?  Also she told the press that when she talked she would take to the Aruban (press, I am assuming) first.

she lives on  The next Island,steve lives with his Grandparents.

[LilOrphan]

HannieC , do you know if a suspect who was arrested and released can later be arrested again for the same crime, per Dutch law?

[Getagrip]

Getagrip wrote:

Also from Kock, on camera a few minutes ago on FOX (paraphrasing):
Joran's story is that Deepak came to pick him up, when Deepak denied this, he changed it to Satish, who also denies this. Kock says that the fact that J keeps changing his story would lead one to logically conclude that he has something to hide. Brothers admit that they initially lied to protect J, but that the brothers' story hasn't changed since they said they dropped off J at the Marriott beach.

Hmmmm.

It could also mean that joran talked about before they were going to C&C who picked him up satish or both and who drove...

He was referring to what happened after D & S dropped him off at the Marriott beach, as far as I know.

[EdwinW]

EdwinW

Would you know if in Dutch law, when a person is being held and interrogated and its before a trial begins  that you are not required by law to say a anything but when you go to trial you are required to answer questions?
Thanks

Answer to both questions: no
But in court if you answer a question you must tell the truth. If you lie, you will be put behind bars for several years.

During interrogation you are allowed to speak but you are not forced to speak. Some even denies to speak at all. With modern techniques it is possible to "break" the morale of a suspect to talk (long interrogations, pushing things, tell someone stories about his children who misses him, etc). The police is under no circumvences allowed to use any physical violence.

That's also the reason why a trial also need "hard" evidence like DNA, traces, etc. During a trial they also may need confessions or witnesses.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

Getagrip wrote:

Also from Kock, on camera a few minutes ago on FOX (paraphrasing):
Joran's story is that Deepak came to pick him up, when Deepak denied this, he changed it to Satish, who also denies this. Kock says that the fact that J keeps changing his story would lead one to logically conclude that he has something to hide. Brothers admit that they initially lied to protect J, but that the brothers' story hasn't changed since they said they dropped off J at the Marriott beach.

Hmmmm.

It could also mean that joran talked about before they were going to C&C who picked him up satish or both and who drove...

If that is the case then they never went to the casino because then nobody drove at all because both of them denied driving.  Its referring to the pick up at around 3 am.

[Ting]

have you found more info on blogs like this one about this case that you believe?

So far, the only things I can honestly say that I believe are:

1) Natlaee is missing

2) The US government has shown unusual interest and is firmly in charge

3) Mrs. Beth will not settle for a confession and no Natalee

4) Natalee was not abducted for matrimonial purposes by Ethiopian tribesmen

I confess that it is unlikely that anything I read on a blog or see on TV can dissuade me from any of the above.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

I hope that Mr. Croes' family will be able to arrange safe conduct for him to an off-island undisclosed location for a while.

As several people have pointed out, there are US nationals currently in Aruba who might wish to do him harm.

Now that his mother has been on TV, and I believe an uncle, it would probably be better if they accompany him.

Re: SC's  mother...I heard that she had not seen him for a year?  SO I wonder why?  Did anyone else see that?  Also she told the press that when she talked she would take to the Aruban (press, I am assuming) first.

she lives on  The next Island,steve lives with his Grandparents.

How far are the islands away from one another?? I heard the samething.. about his mom not seeing him in a year.. just curious.. and why.. if you know the answer is he living with his grandparents and not his mother?? Does that have to do with his job on the Tattoo???