RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[Terry]

How do we know the brothers were home? All I remember was somewhere reading their mother said their door was locked. If Joran had the 2 brothers with him to help, then the mechanics of it all seems more plausible. Yes, I remember the text message, but where were the locations of the messages?

I think Satish was logged on by 2 am.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

How do we know the brothers were home? All I remember was somewhere reading their mother said their door was locked. If Joran had the 2 brothers with him to help, then the mechanics of it all seems more plausible. Yes, I remember the text message, but where were the locations of the messages?

We dont know the brothers were home.

Theres been no verification of the text messages.

also, I think the brothers live at 2 different residences.  One with the mom and one with the grandmother.  Not sure but thats what i think I heard the mother say.

[Chaumes]

so why did he not use his charm on Beth too?

Because another established characteristic of a true sociopath is that they will waste no time on those they (the sociopath) suspect to be onto them.  They only attempt their con on the completely unsuspecting (strangers), those they have consistently conned in the past (relatives, loved ones), and those they believe they've got a fighting chance to deceive and/or stall (in this case, interrogators).

If nothing else, sociopaths are clever with nearly an innate sense about whom they may have a chance at deceiving - i.e. they can nearly smell their 'marks' (victims).  Experts at manipulating situations to achieve their desired reality, they can smell their escape routes as well.  In the case of JVDS, he knows, absolutely, that time is on his side.  He can only be held for so long.  

After nearly four weeks of being questioned, he has learned that what he has done so far, (telling his version of events and then changing that version several times) has resulted in... his not being charged with a crime.  

He didn't have to be a brilliant criminal mind to make a corpse disappear.  He only had to be an average sociopath who could count on average or below average police/detective work and a little bit of luck.

[TTownMike]

The two ATM withdrawals between 3AM and 3:45AM on Monday morning were said to have been made by Paul vdS, but we haven't heard any confirmation that the cameras ID'ed the card-user as Paul.  We don't know that it wasn't Joran.

I had not heard this information, but if true, this is another very interesting twist.   I had posted several pages back that a possible reason PVDS did not remember waking Joren, was that he had never been asleep that night.  Wonder what amount of $ was withdrawn and where the ATM's were located.

And how does he explain being out?  And like I said by lying "I don't remember if I woke him"  he is copping out.  No lie!  Jus a bunch o igernunce, sotaspeak!

[Twelve Monkeys]

You are right soccerdad...As far as we Know he lied!!

Ok but does that make him a murderer? I don`t think so. I think what people forget is......it`s a kid he`s 17 years old. If we think that all lyers are murderers...snip

Are you kidding us?

They lied about a person that is M I S S I N G!! not about stealing cookies for goodness sake.

THANK YOU!

This is not meant to be an attack but you are over simplifying this lying/murdering thing.  

[~TAZ_MAN~]

How do we know the brothers were home? All I remember was somewhere reading their mother said their door was locked. If Joran had the 2 brothers with him to help, then the mechanics of it all seems more plausible. Yes, I remember the text message, but where were the locations of the messages?

I think Satish was logged on by 2 am.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I didnt hear that, I dont want to speculate about the 2 brothers anymore, for me theres too many unanswered questions regarding those 2.

[HannieC]

TTown wrote: sorry

But ya see Hannie, everbody is offering opinions, and they are accepted as such. Then, sometimes, they are argued or rinforced by followup comments and facts. You on the otherhand, seem to trash the others even as you put forth your own! KnowwhutImean?

I trash people?? O my god no show me were? come on.....

[medleyrelay]

Where was it ever stated as a fact that Paul was at an atm at 3 in the morning - I do not think it is even confirmed that he was a Mcdonalds - do we really have these facts as facts not rumors?  but there is a limit of how much you can withdraw from atms - what are you all thinking he was paying somebody off with this withdrawal?

[SoccerDad]

people you can all attack me....sorry that`s MY opinion..I thougth I was entitled to my opinion on this forum?

It's all right dear, we're all emotional about this. We're stuck in a very sick world. All can do is pray for the innocent victims in all this.

[Terry]

How do we know the brothers were home? All I remember was somewhere reading their mother said their door was locked. If Joran had the 2 brothers with him to help, then the mechanics of it all seems more plausible. Yes, I remember the text message, but where were the locations of the messages?

We dont know the brothers were home.

Theres been no verification of the text messages.

also, I think the brothers live at 2 different residences.  One with the mom and one with the grandmother.  Not sure but thats what i think I heard the mother say.

Actually the mother said one had lived in Aruba with her for seven years, and the other for about three years.... before that they had lived with the grandmother. I cant remember which one did what.

[igsigs]

The two ATM withdrawals between 3AM and 3:45AM on Monday morning were said to have been made by Paul vdS, but we haven't heard any confirmation that the cameras ID'ed the card-user as Paul.  We don't know that it wasn't Joran.

If Joran made the atm withdrawals maybe it was to get $$$ to pay off someone to dispose of the body.   Just a thought.

'

Two ATM withdrawals? Is this confirmed? How bizarre! i would think that one ATM withdrawal could be seen as somewhat innocent. but two? That tells me that somethng was going on right then...and there was indecision...maybe panic...and...well...i just dont know what to think.

[Terry]

How do we know the brothers were home? All I remember was somewhere reading their mother said their door was locked. If Joran had the 2 brothers with him to help, then the mechanics of it all seems more plausible. Yes, I remember the text message, but where were the locations of the messages?

I think Satish was logged on by 2 am.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I didnt hear that, I dont want to speculate about the 2 brothers anymore, for me theres too many unanswered questions regarding those 2.

Alrighty, I am with you on that...

[AzRose]

The two ATM withdrawals between 3AM and 3:45AM on Monday morning were said to have been made by Paul vdS, but we haven't heard any confirmation that the cameras ID'ed the card-user as Paul.  We don't know that it wasn't Joran.

I had not heard this information, but if true, this is another very interesting twist.   I had posted several pages back that a possible reason PVDS did not remember waking Joren, was that he had never been asleep that night.  Wonder what amount of $ was withdrawn and where the ATM's were located.

And how does he xplain being out?  And like I said by ying "I don't remember if I woke him"  he is copping out.  No lie!  Jus a bunch o igernunce, sotaspeak!

I don't know what his explanation for being out would be.  This gets stranger, and stranger,  

[Twelve Monkeys]

people you can all attack me....sorry that`s MY opinion..I thougth I was entitled to my opinion on this forum?

It's all right dear, we're all emotional about this. We're stuck in a very sick world. All can do is pray for the innocent victims in all this.

Come on now, sure this world can be "sick" but there is much beauty and much to be thankful for too. Much more good than evil.

[TTownMike]

We can't forget that the cops felt it necessary to wear the HazMat suits when they searched the vdS residence (including Joran's apt.), so they must've felt there was *some* reason to go to such extremes.

Yeah!  That did seem peculiar!  Good point! Hmmmmm?

[Terry]

TTown wrote: sorry

But ya see Hannie, everbody is offering opinions, and they are accepted as such. Then, sometimes, they are argued or rinforced by followup comments and facts. You on the otherhand, seem to trash the others even as you put forth your own! KnowwhutImean?

I trash people?? O my god no show me were? come on.....

No way. I read way more than I post. IMO, you do not trash others.

I often wonder about spelling issues on this board though. Know What I mean?  

[writenow]

and you know what, Write? I hope if Natalee is already gone that her body will be found quickly...this week. Because not one of Natalee's family or friends is going to be anle to grieve properly until her body is found...that's a FACT. And kids like Dash are about to start college and new lives...they need to be able to grieve and move on.

Absolutely, Kerin. For the family's and friends' sake, I hope there is some resolution quickly.

[SoccerDad]

He didn't have to be a brilliant criminal mind to make a corpse disappear.  He only had to be an average sociopath who could count on average or below average police/detective work and a little bit of luck.

The sad thing is, he's young and scared. If this was an accident, why doesn't he say so?

[KerinTX]

I am not saying that any of this is not true (so don't start throwing banana peels at me) but it seems every time the case slows down or hits a wall (as far as information), then some "new" VDS sighting or weirdness is claimed to have happened.

The VDS's are not criminal masterminds. I still say "THINK SIMPLE" to figure out what happened.

[bobntexas]

He didn't have to be a brilliant criminal mind to make a corpse disappear.  He only had to be an average sociopath who could count on average or below average police/detective work and a little bit of luck.

The sad thing is, he's young and scared. If this was an accident, why doesn't he say so?

Unfortunately, that is why I worry that this wasn't an accident.