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Author Topic: RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening  (Read 251825 times)
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wwizard
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« Reply #160 on: June 26, 2005, 07:47:16 PM »

Tell me bout teen pressure, when I was 15 I walked in on my grandmother with a gun in her hand. Right before she took her life. Should I grab the gun or run for help….I ran…I still remember the look in her eyes..
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Anna
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« Reply #161 on: June 26, 2005, 07:47:25 PM »

Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote
Hi, all I'm saying is that no one said she danced with him, to my recollection. And she could have just asked, "What are you doing tonight" as a way to chit chat while they are sitting at the same gambling table. WHat I mean is that I don't think we should assume she was interested in him. There has been so much misinformation out there, and I have been basing my theories (plural - again, I have not made up my mind!  ) on what Dash, Dash's mom, and other parents of kids from the trip have posted. When she left the bar, it was at the same time as a group of MB kids. Dash asked her a question and Natalee replied that she was going back to the HI quote, "with them" and pointed to the group of MB kids. That is one thing I believe happened.


This contradicts what other students have said in an interview.  If she planned to return to Hi with the other students then the three boys basically kidnapped her in front of all of her friends.  Then the kidnap victim is seen by still other students hanging out the window of the kidnap vehilce shouting "Aruba, Aruba".  Sounds reasonable.
<<

Actually she was behind the crowd of all her friends as they loaded into taxis.  A car pulled up as they had worked their way up to the curb and it is assumed she got inside it.  What other student saw her shouting Aruba out the window??  Maybe it was a call for help that sounded phonetically like that.  Perhaps her speech was beginning to slur from being drugged or she did not know what she was saying for does not seem like a likely thing to shout out of a window.  But if Joren deliberately guided her into the car, he could have blocked her view of them as she was the last waiting to get into the taxis.  

To what interview are you referring for this has been posted to this forum previouosly?  She said one moment she was returning with "them" pointing to the other students and the next  minute she was gone in the car with Joren.  How would she know if it was a taxi or not?  She did not know the brothers.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
dragonfly
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« Reply #162 on: June 26, 2005, 07:47:50 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "puggywug"

Hi, all I'm saying is that no one said she danced with him, to my recollection.


Actually, her friend Ed, who was at CnC's that night, said in an interview on Bill O'Reilly, that he did see Natalee and Joran dancing together.


But, IF you believe that the emails wonderwoman posted are legit (which I personally don't), it says in there that Joran would not dance with Natalee.  That she kept asking him and he kept saying no.
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writenow
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« Reply #163 on: June 26, 2005, 07:47:59 PM »

Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
I don't know if she invited Joran, but I know she told him she was going to CnCs that night.


How do you know she wasn't just answering his question, "What are you all doing tonight?"

If you're going by the "Deepak" emails, remember that 90% of what he said in those was a lie.

And you don't know she walked out with him. He was walking next to her and managed to maneuver her into his friends' car. Her last comments to her friends was that she was going back to the hotel with the MB kids in front of her. Not, I'm going with him (Joran).

Figure it out.


How can one remember something that has not been proved.  Seems more like 90% of the e-mail is accurate.  Again she must have been happy about the kidnapping given that she was seen by students chanting "Aruba Aruba" and saying that she was alright.


His whole story has changed from what was in that email. And yet you still claim it's true? Even when he's admitted it was a lie?
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inthepacific
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« Reply #164 on: June 26, 2005, 07:48:32 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote
This forum reminds me alot of forums such as Court tv and Websleuths. And I don't beleive it is a good place to read stuff you don't want to see from victims family, or victims friends. I know if I was one of those 2, it would be very hard to read some of the ideas being brought up here.


Well Websleuths fully and courttv to a lesser extent. Are Crime boards with victims rights focus. This is not, this is a news board that is an extention of Tom and Red's News commentary.


Ohh, I agree fully Absolut. I can see this forum is not a victims right focus, rather, I see it as an open forum to debate the case of a missing person.
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puggywug
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« Reply #165 on: June 26, 2005, 07:48:49 PM »

Bye, everyone.  I need a break from this forum, for the rest of the night anyway.   Wink  I am really sad Dash left.  Please be respectful of one another, ok?  And remember, this is all theory and speculation. THE ONLY FACT WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN IS THAT NATALEE IS MISSING.  Crying or Very sad
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #166 on: June 26, 2005, 07:48:50 PM »

Arubagirl..thanks so much for taking those pics today...where can i find them?
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #167 on: June 26, 2005, 07:49:09 PM »

Quote from: "Loren"
I really do not understand what difference it makes if NH liked Joran, danced with him, flirted with him or went off with him in his car on her own volition.... Murder does not follow logically in those scenarios!


Ditto.
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Scott
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« Reply #168 on: June 26, 2005, 07:49:27 PM »

Quote from: "sandy"
Bendex's translation states Deepak received 2 messages after he left Joran - one I am walking home, 2 I am home - is this normal - or is it part of a plan to establish fake timelines?


Unless Joran is Deepak's bitch, there would be no reasonable expectation for ANY guy to give his friend a courtesy call to let him know he got home alright, unless he was seriously hammered, and had to drive home drunk.
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Ting
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« Reply #169 on: June 26, 2005, 07:49:32 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Ting"
Quote from: "Anna"
he was accustomed to being treated in a preferential manner, being above the law so to speak.  Joren could do pretty much anything he pleased on the island.


That poses an interesting question. Is Joran widely believed to be the only 17 year old on the island who frequents casinos and drinks alcoholic beverages?


No but I'll bet he is the only one who is 6' 3" or more.


Do you think he received preferential treatment because he is tall?
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inthepacific
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« Reply #170 on: June 26, 2005, 07:51:27 PM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "puggywug"

Hi, all I'm saying is that no one said she danced with him, to my recollection.


Actually, her friend Ed, who was at CnC's that night, said in an interview on Bill O'Reilly, that he did see Natalee and Joran dancing together.


But, IF you believe that the emails wonderwoman posted are legit (which I personally don't), it says in there that Joran would not dance with Natalee.  That she kept asking him and he kept saying no.


I think that letter said that she was on the bar dancing with others, and she asked Joran to come up and dance with her on the bar? And he said no. Then she went to deepak and asked him why his friend(joran) wouldn't dance with her....

all speculation that letter from wonderwoman IMO
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #171 on: June 26, 2005, 07:51:45 PM »

Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "katya"
I don't mean to be argumentative, but if you are concerned about justice, there are countless  cases  of injustice in your own backyard. What are you doing about them?


Katya-friend-of-Joran,

We're not talking about other cases here. We're talking about Natalee. That's why it's labeled Natalee Holloway. You know. You clicked on it when you entered this forum. We're talking about justice in THIS case. Got it?


Katya, it is agreed that we have injustice and justice misplaced.  Whatever the instance you could likely find a blog or website making comments about them.  However, here the topic is Natalee.  If you would like to know what is being said about the other instances of "injustice in ..." our own backyard, please feel free to google a name.  It will take you to those forums.
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 the insight to know when you've gone too far."
HannieC
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« Reply #172 on: June 26, 2005, 07:52:39 PM »

writenow wrote:

Quote
Katya-friend-of-Joran,

We're not talking about other cases here. We're talking about Natalee. That's why it's labeled Natalee Holloway. You know. You clicked on it when you entered this forum. We're talking about justice in THIS case. Got it?



writenow sorry i disagree on that. I don`t like it if you are bashing Katya for having another opinion then yours, If that is so then you can bash me too, b/c we al have our own opinion and I`m also not a friend of Joran or the kalpoes but some of us have maybe a much more open mind then others so why does that make it legit to bash people of who we only know that he lied once( we don`t even now how much) and b/c he lied must hang b/c he did it? I have said this before, If someone is lying that doesn`t make him/her a murderer! Whe are not in those boys shoes and we don`t have ALL facts so why is bashing and slender thru the mud of all the families is makes it ok? If there are FACTS and EVIDENCE then I think slender as much as you wish. But everybody is entitled to state there opinion I hope, I do...... Wink
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mordred
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« Reply #173 on: June 26, 2005, 07:52:49 PM »

Quote from: "puggywug"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "puggywug"

.......  And my overall point is that some of you don't know that she was interested in Joran.  .....SOMETHING is terribly wrong here, and I am suspicious of Joran.  I am not saying I think he murdered her.  I am thinking more along the lines of an accident or a sexual assault.  But I haven't decided.  IMO, he is the most likely suspect.


The reason that many people think she liked Joran, even a little bit is because she allegedly danced & hang out with him by her schoolmates' accounts. I dont see how liking him or not makes any difference though - In fact most sexual assaults are perpetrated by people one knows, has a relationship with, etc: An 18 year old girl  is more likely to be assaulted on a date (with someone she LIKES) rather than by a stranger.
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iquitos
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« Reply #174 on: June 26, 2005, 07:52:56 PM »

Quote from: "Ting"
Quote from: "Anna"
he was accustomed to being treated in a preferential manner, being above the law so to speak.  Joren could do pretty much anything he pleased on the island.


That poses an interesting question. Is Joran widely believed to be the only 17 year old on the island who frequents casinos and drinks alcoholic beverages?
 

some cable network interviewed one (in a casino) who was there with joran that night whose voice had not changed and would need a stool to reach the tables.   they need them local kids as a draw to attract the senoir trippers to get in there and compete against and fight with the locals challenging them on their own turf.  i bet it is a real loose operation   besides joran was 17 and 9 months something was he not?  they probably treat anybody coming in there to throw their money down a rathole deferentially and joran doesn't have to do anything to get a little extra deference becasue everybody wants to stay on the good side of a judge.  the night in question he was even under the adult supervision of his father.  

the mb kids at 18 are 3 years short of legal age in the us and i do not understand how what is not ok in the us suddenly becomes ok in aruba because it is "legal".   "legal" don't make it right.  our legal drinking age is obviously too high and i don't understand how we got there except that we are hypocrites because they drink anyway and then they are criminals unless they can afford a trip to aruba, cancun, juarez, nogales or Tijuana.
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coco
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« Reply #175 on: June 26, 2005, 07:52:57 PM »

Scott - I find your latest comment really offensive.
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clevfan1234
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« Reply #176 on: June 26, 2005, 07:53:34 PM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
I think it was very easy for many posters here to forget Dash was a kid, a teenager. She is articulate, smart and loyal (wonderful qualities). However, most of us on this board are adults who have been around the block a time or 2 and are old hats a message boards or blogs. We have grown thick skin, and can give as good as we get. That should never have been expected of Dash or MBHgirl ( sorry I know I have your name wrong). Not one of us would ever let another adult speak to our teenage child in a hateful manner. Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.


Right, but at same time please read my opinion with open mind: people are hard on this joran for his attitude towards the hollaways that nite they visited him....he has the same passion that dash does "young and bold", we just don't know the facts in this case enough to know what has really transpired. I have gone back and forth on this kids guilt/innocence 4 times, and until I guess I heard all of the evidence that the prosecution has down there, I will never really know what side to sway to in his guilt.

But given the fact that I am used to our judicial system here in the usa, I have to be 100 percent convinced that he is guilty to believe that he did it.

My heart goes out to her family and I clearly want them to know that I feel so bad for her, they want answers as do we all, but at same time, until this kid confesses or evidence has been presented to prove he did it, I can not stick my neck out and say "HE KILLED HER"
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coco
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« Reply #177 on: June 26, 2005, 07:54:26 PM »

In the promotional materials from one of the companies that package these graduation and spring break trips they specifically say that Aruba's drinking age is 18 but they rarely card.

I'll see if I can dig it up again ...
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Microcephalic
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« Reply #178 on: June 26, 2005, 07:55:37 PM »

Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "Microcephalic"
Quote from: "writenow"
Quote from: "la_cavalière"
I don't know if she invited Joran, but I know she told him she was going to CnCs that night.


How do you know she wasn't just answering his question, "What are you all doing tonight?"

If you're going by the "Deepak" emails, remember that 90% of what he said in those was a lie.

And you don't know she walked out with him. He was walking next to her and managed to maneuver her into his friends' car. Her last comments to her friends was that she was going back to the hotel with the MB kids in front of her. Not, I'm going with him (Joran).

Figure it out.


How can one remember something that has not been proved.  Seems more like 90% of the e-mail is accurate.  Again she must have been happy about the kidnapping given that she was seen by students chanting "Aruba Aruba" and saying that she was alright.


His whole story has changed from what was in that email. And yet you still claim it's true? Even when he's admitted it was a lie?


His whole story hasn't changed.  We certainly don't know with any certainity what his story is.  The police are not talking.  Just about everything in the e-mail up to the point of dropping NH off at the HI has been confirmed by interviews with other students that I have seen on FOX and second hand accounts given by the parents.  I do not recall which two kids said it but she was seen in the car with the boys and was aked if she was alright.  She said she was.  This was one one of the first interviews and is what led me to believe that the e-mail was legit.  The events described in the casino in the e-mail have been cooberated by the students as have events in and outside C&C's.
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absolut
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« Reply #179 on: June 26, 2005, 07:55:46 PM »

Quote from: "Ting"
Quote from: "absolut"
Quote from: "Ting"
Quote from: "Anna"
he was accustomed to being treated in a preferential manner, being above the law so to speak.  Joren could do pretty much anything he pleased on the island.


That poses an interesting question. Is Joran widely believed to be the only 17 year old on the island who frequents casinos and drinks alcoholic beverages?


No but I'll bet he is the only one who is 6' 3" or more.


Do you think he received preferential treatment because he is tall?


No I think got in cause he is tall the same way he did at 17 and 0 months and maybe even 16.
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