RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[bendex]

I am calling it a night maby later guys.

[wwizard]

It's one thing to debate theories but another to debase the girl's charater and decision-making with unfounded suppositions.  Dash was asked to be here and she provided a great deal of insight and that should have been respected.

With great respect I have to ask if Natalees character was specifically impuned by this board OR if it was just that there was conjecture and opinion that ran contrary to Dash's opinion of her friend.

It has been mentioned several times on this board that people often act quite differently while on vacation than they do in their "regular" life.  And I can certainly attest to that.

Having lived in Aruba and now currently in Cozumel, Mexico (both big party islands) I see outrageous and irresponsible behavior by touists almost every time I go out of my house.  Young women, in particular come to these islands with intent to "party wild" and "get laid" by the local dive masters, instructors, CnC waiters, bartenders, cute guys on the street, whomever.......it is a demonstrable and easily observed "fact of life" down here.  It used to be that  for pure entertainment, the "locals" would sit on the sea wall across from CnC's here in Cozumel to watch the tourists (primarily American) stumble, fall, vomit on themselves, strip down, yell and scream at one another and in general make asses of themselves as they exited the club......This is not a judgment on my part....it is what happens here.  

While I am NOT saying that Natalee behaved this way, the fact remains that she fits the demographic.  And it is understandable that this theory would be put forth.

I am also not clear whether Dash actually provided valuable "insight" or just her opinion.  It has been stated that Natalee was a "good girl" in just about every sense that any of us can think of....this has been reported widely in the press, This was not "breaking news" or "insight" from Dash....

Just my opinion

I agree that in her rather "delicate" emotional state, this board was not the place for her to be.

thank you

[Ting]

Maybe there's some cultural difference at play here, but are you telling me it's plausible a guy would call another guy friend to let him know he made it home OK...on Aruba???  Get real!!!

Young people today, male and female, all over the world, text their friends to notify them that they have finished flossing.

Of all the purported communications, this one seems to be the least significant.

He either texted him to let him know he no longer needed a ride, or to let him know he got home safely, or to discuss something that happened during the evening.

Without the content of the message, the fact that there was a message is in my opinion, nothing.

[Catriana]

It's a shame we lost the MB poster because of the some of the biased moderating that occurs in here. Any / all defenders of natalee have been slowly silenced by the cries of "troll, troll".

Defend the twitty family's calls for prayers for their daughter hear "troll, troll". The deliberately blind, deaf, and ignorant monkies swing to the high branches when the trolls cry "there's a troll amongst us!". It all sadly reminds me of the McCarthy days.

You sir are a communist...I mean troll...I mean communist.

Please don't feed the hate..to trolls by whatever name. Hopefully the lurkers are distinguishing the differnce between actual opinions and statements of preference/perspective ("my favorite color is blue...Aruba is paradise...Aruba is hell on earth...the butler sweats too much "). Opinions will be shaped by facts & logic, the prefences/perspectives are limited only by the number of posters on this forum.

If gained perspective is so important to the collective mission of the posters here, then you've done yourselves disservice by chasing away the MB 2.

No one is banned because they disagree with any certain viewpoint.   Everyone has the right to state their opinion, as long as they keep it respectful to those who might disagree with them.   All bans (and there have not been that many) that I know of were due to attacking people/individuals.   Attacking anyone will not be tolerated.   Neither will attacking the admins/moderators here for doing their job.

Calling people names is considered attacking.  If you have a problem with moderation/banning please PM an Admin to discuss your issue.   DO NOT TAKE MODERATION/BANNING issues to the PUBLIC forum.

Thank you!

[Anna]

heck, I'll admit it, I vacillate between the goog girl/bad girl scenarios with the attending theories.......all I know is what's on this screen

I don't think that drinking at a club, leaving with new friends, or walking alone on the beach makes someone a "bad girl". Nor does it have anything to do with the disappearance case.

just a look at my pic shows what those activities can lead to!.    No those things does not a "ho" make, it never will. And certainly does not mean anyone who engages in those actions deserves to be hurt.

<<

How do you know it has nothing to do with the disappearance case?  No one else has that information so what is your source?  Are you claiming to know for a fact that this is not exactly how she came to disappear?

[KoG]

I am really tempted to start a thread for Americans to discuss what changes they would make to their judicial system, if they were suddenly made the boss of it.

Ting,

What happened to the "we are not Arubans on one side and Americans on the other. We are all brother and sisters united in our mission to ensure justice where justice is due?" attitude of Arubans.

I do not assume that all Arubans think/act the same. Why is it that you seem to feel such blanket contempt for Americans because of isolated experiences w/ them in this forum.

Please do not allow yourself to be pushed to an extreme viewpoint at the opposite end of the spectrum of thought and consider yourself an objective contributer here.

I do, however, appreciate that you do possess and share a unique perspective regarding this case. It is not shared excluively by Arubans though.

[writenow]

Scott - I find your latest comment really offensive.

Maybe there's some cultural difference at play here, but are you telling me it's plausible a guy would call another guy friend to let him know he made it home OK...on Aruba???  Get real!!!

Good point, Scott.

And I still want to know where Joran got the money to be gambling every night in the casinos. That's wild. I grew up playing poker with friends and relatives, but we were using chips or pennies. These casinos are big-boy, high stakes casinos. Where the heck is this kid getting all this money on his family's middle class income? Did he have a job? (We haven't heard of one.) Was he selling drugs to get money for gambling? Where is this kid getting enough money to spend five hours a night or more gambling in casinos? and if Daddy's gambling with him, how is this family financially able to absorb these losses? Because face it, casinos are not set up for someone to win consistently. The odds are deliberately set for the casinos to make the money, not you.

[mordred]

Maybe there's some cultural difference at play here, but are you telling me it's plausible a guy would call another guy friend to let him know he made it home OK...on Aruba???  Get real!!!

Scott- Its not only in Aruba, In fact I usually insist that most of my friends (male & female) CALL me when they get home after we have been partying!!    I once got a scary call from a friend's mother asking me where he was after we had been partying all night & he drove home. Luckily, he was OK but you catch my drift?

[nancy_drew]

It's one thing to debate theories but another to debase the girl's charater and decision-making with unfounded suppositions.  Dash was asked to be here and she provided a great deal of insight and that should have been respected.

With great respect I have to ask if Natalees character was specifically impuned by this board OR if it was just that there was conjecture and opinion that ran contrary to Dash's opinion of her friend.

It has been mentioned several times on this board that people often act quite differently while on vacation than they do in their "regular" life.  And I can certainly attest to that.

Having lived in Aruba and now currently in Cozumel, Mexico (both big party islands) I see outrageous and irresponsible behavior by touists almost every time I go out of my house.  Young women, in particular come to these islands with intent to "party wild" and "get laid" by the local dive masters, instructors, CnC waiters, bartenders, cute guys on the street, whomever.......it is a demonstrable and easily observed "fact of life" down here.  It used to be that  for pure entertainment, the "locals" would sit on the sea wall across from CnC's here in Cozumel to watch the tourists (primarily American) stumble, fall, vomit on themselves, strip down, yell and scream at one another and in general make asses of themselves as they exited the club......This is not a judgment on my part....it is what happens here.  

While I am NOT saying that Natalee behaved this way, the fact remains that she fits the demographic.  And it is understandable that this theory would be put forth.

I am also not clear whether Dash actually provided valuable "insight" or just her opinion.  It has been stated that Natalee was a "good girl" in just about every sense that any of us can think of....this has been reported widely in the press, This was not "breaking news" or "insight" from Dash....

Just my opinion

I agree that in her rather "delicate" emotional state, this board was not the place for her to be.

Your comment is self serving and cold.  Rather than take a deep breath and consider how to right a wrong...or, even admit we did wrong...another  officous tyrade about "her delicate emotional state".

Somebody should at least consider plans to find a spot here where these kids are allowed.  We have welcomed them here for the last two weeks and now we're so damn important we make it sound like they are weak, emotional and AT FAULT...

I'm sorry this stinks to high heaven.  I'm outta here...

[pinemeadows]

I am really tempted to start a thread for Americans to discuss what changes they would make to their judicial system, if they were suddenly made the boss of it.

Enough already.

[WonderWoman]

It's one thing to debate theories but another to debase the girl's charater and decision-making with unfounded suppositions.  Dash was asked to be here and she provided a great deal of insight and that should have been respected.

With great respect I have to ask if Natalees character was specifically impuned by this board OR if it was just that there was conjecture and opinion that ran contrary to Dash's opinion of her friend.

It has been mentioned several times on this board that people often act quite differently while on vacation than they do in their "regular" life.  And I can certainly attest to that.

Having lived in Aruba and now currently in Cozumel, Mexico (both big party islands) I see outrageous and irresponsible behavior by touists almost every time I go out of my house.  Young women, in particular come to these islands with intent to "party wild" and "get laid" by the local dive masters, instructors, CnC waiters, bartenders, cute guys on the street, whomever.......it is a demonstrable and easily observed "fact of life" down here.  It used to be that  for pure entertainment, the "locals" would sit on the sea wall across from CnC's here in Cozumel to watch the tourists (primarily American) stumble, fall, vomit on themselves, strip down, yell and scream at one another and in general make asses of themselves as they exited the club......This is not a judgment on my part....it is what happens here.  

While I am NOT saying that Natalee behaved this way, the fact remains that she fits the demographic.  And it is understandable that this theory would be put forth.

I am also not clear whether Dash actually provided valuable "insight" or just her opinion.  It has been stated that Natalee was a "good girl" in just about every sense that any of us can think of....this has been reported widely in the press, This was not "breaking news" or "insight" from Dash....

Just my opinion

I agree that in her rather "delicate" emotional state, this board was not the place for her to be.

very well said

[DT]

It's one thing to debate theories but another to debase the girl's charater and decision-making with unfounded suppositions.  Dash was asked to be here and she provided a great deal of insight and that should have been respected.

With great respect I have to ask if Natalees character was specifically impuned by this board OR if it was just that there was conjecture and opinion that ran contrary to Dash's opinion of her friend.

It has been mentioned several times on this board that people often act quite differently while on vacation than they do in their "regular" life.  And I can certainly attest to that.

Having lived in Aruba and now currently in Cozumel, Mexico (both big party islands) I see outrageous and irresponsible behavior by touists almost every time I go out of my house.  Young women, in particular come to these islands with intent to "party wild" and "get laid" by the local dive masters, instructors, CnC waiters, bartenders, cute guys on the street, whomever.......it is a demonstrable and easily observed "fact of life" down here.  It used to be that  for pure entertainment, the "locals" would sit on the sea wall across from CnC's here in Cozumel to watch the tourists (primarily American) stumble, fall, vomit on themselves, strip down, yell and scream at one another and in general make asses of themselves as they exited the club......This is not a judgment on my part....it is what happens here.  

While I am NOT saying that Natalee behaved this way, the fact remains that she fits the demographic.  And it is understandable that this theory would be put forth.

I am also not clear whether Dash actually provided valuable "insight" or just her opinion.  It has been stated that Natalee was a "good girl" in just about every sense that any of us can think of....this has been reported widely in the press, This was not "breaking news" or "insight" from Dash....

Just my opinion

I agree that in her rather "delicate" emotional state, this board was not the place for her to be.

thank you

Actually she did give us a lot of valuable info since she was on the trip.  Maybe you should try reading her posts, we learned a lot of what went on and what happened, a lot more than just the she was a good girl stuff we are so used to hearing.  Again it is not that people are questioning her character it is that they are doing so with the evidence set against them, and also that they are questioning parts of her behavior that are totally irrelevant to the case.

[iquitos]

he was accustomed to being treated in a preferential manner, being above the law so to speak.  Joren could do pretty much anything he pleased on the island.

That poses an interesting question. Is Joran widely believed to be the only 17 year old on the island who frequents casinos and drinks alcoholic beverages?

 

some cable network interviewed one (in a casino) who was there with joran that night whose voice had not changed and would need a stool to reach the tables.   they need them local kids as a draw to attract the senoir trippers to get in there and compete against and fight with the locals challenging them on their own turf.  i bet it is a real loose operation   besides joran was 17 and 9 months something was he not?  they probably treat anybody coming in there to throw their money down a rathole deferentially and joran doesn't have to do anything to get a little extra deference becasue everybody wants to stay on the good side of a judge.  the night in question he was even under the adult supervision of his father.  

the mb kids at 18 are 3 years short of legal age in the us and i do not understand how what is not ok in the us suddenly becomes ok in aruba because it is "legal".   "legal" don't make it right.  our legal drinking age is obviously too high and i don't understand how we got there except that we are hypocrites because they drink anyway and then they are criminals unless they can afford a trip to aruba, cancun, juarez, nogales or Tijuana.

Does it meqn they deserve to be murdered?

of course not. who said that?  

[absolut]

The simple theory revisited. oddly the new releases from custody changes this at all.

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words)
Girl with friends sees boy again, friends leave
Girl leaves with boy and his friends (no assumtions)
Girl and boy get in vechicle with his friends (no idea what she knew)
Vechicle drives off into the night.
Boy alive and well, as well as 2 others in the car (remember no statements are any good.)

Girl is missing and no one can tell us, how, why, when where. You have one thing left guilt.

Without statements for or against where does the guilt logically fall.

[Another K in Texas]

so the ugly guys who like to be rude have taken over and then gloat about running dash off.

Folks you are not aquitting yourself well.  

Surely I know nothing about that happened there--and most of you don't either.

You besmear the victim and her friends and defend the guys who for sure are lying at best.

Guess you are proud.

Sadly this case will be solved or get old and you will find some other little mystery to go after.  

Dash will live with this forever.

And some of us had hoped to be on this forum for discussion of current events forever.   Right now it is not a friendly place unless you are of the attack the victim school of thought.

I have said repeatedly that Joran and Natalee would have had much in common and I could understand her being attracted to him.  And him to her.

None of that justifies rape or murder it either occured.

Nat could have been the class slut--and it still would not justify rape or murder.

HER character is not relevant if she is the victim.

[Scott]

I am really tempted to start a thread for Americans to discuss what changes they would make to their judicial system, if they were suddenly made the boss of it.

I would let the victims decide the fate of the criminal.

After the incompetence of the jurors on the OJ trial (DNA too complicated for them to digest), I came to the conclusion that justice would best be served if a jury consisted strictly of a panel of lawyers and judges well-versed and qualified to interpret the law.

I would keep the voir dire component of jury selection.

[katya]

It's one thing to debate theories but another to debase the girl's charater and decision-making with unfounded suppositions.  Dash was asked to be here and she provided a great deal of insight and that should have been respected.

With great respect I have to ask if Natalees character was specifically impuned by this board OR if it was just that there was conjecture and opinion that ran contrary to Dash's opinion of her friend.

It has been mentioned several times on this board that people often act quite differently while on vacation than they do in their "regular" life.  And I can certainly attest to that.

Having lived in Aruba and now currently in Cozumel, Mexico (both big party islands) I see outrageous and irresponsible behavior by touists almost every time I go out of my house.  Young women, in particular come to these islands with intent to "party wild" and "get laid" by the local dive masters, instructors, CnC waiters, bartenders, cute guys on the street, whomever.......it is a demonstrable and easily observed "fact of life" down here.  It used to be that  for pure entertainment, the "locals" would sit on the sea wall across from CnC's here in Cozumel to watch the tourists (primarily American) stumble, fall, vomit on themselves, strip down, yell and scream at one another and in general make asses of themselves as they exited the club......This is not a judgment on my part....it is what happens here.  

While I am NOT saying that Natalee behaved this way, the fact remains that she fits the demographic.  And it is understandable that this theory would be put forth.

I am also not clear whether Dash actually provided valuable "insight" or just her opinion.  It has been stated that Natalee was a "good girl" in just about every sense that any of us can think of....this has been reported widely in the press, This was not "breaking news" or "insight" from Dash....

Just my opinion

I agree that in her rather "delicate" emotional state, this board was not the place for her to be.

thank you

Totally agree, also live in a Mexican resort town (Pacific Coast)

[KackyLacky]

Scott - I find your latest comment really offensive.

while I wouldn't have said it the way Scott did, I just asked my 19 yr nephew a couple of minutes ago, if he would have called and or texted someone to say he was walking and he was home. He saidt the person who more normally would be calling or texting would be the person already at their home to see if their buddy got home ok, especially if drinking or if the friend possibly got "lucky" So that is the opinion of a teenage boy, something is wrong with this part of joran's story as usual.

[SunnyinTX]

Joren is guilty in my book, why?


2) Statements to BT like "what do you want with your daughter? She is no use to you now"  
icey

Icey...I think I can assure you without a doubt IF Joren has something like that to Beth Holloway...he would NOT be in prison right now....he'd be 6 feet under!  Where in the world did you hear that one!  Oh my goodness!!!

[katya]

I am really tempted to start a thread for Americans to discuss what changes they would make to their judicial system, if they were suddenly made the boss of it.

I would let the victims decide the fate of the criminal.

After the incompetence of the jurors on the OJ trial (DNA too complicated for them to digest), I came to the conclusion that justice would best be served if a jury consisted strictly of a panel of lawyers and judges well-versed and qualified to interpret the law.

I would see keep the voir dire component of jury selection.

And I beleive that is basically how the Dutch system works.