RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[arubagirl]

THANKS, greatowl

[KackyLacky]

arubagirl

Thanks, that is what I am trying to figure out. Surely if someone, a citizen saw him walking alone or with a girl, after all this press, wouldn't that have come out, or been told to the LE?...It makes no sense to me that we have heard from no one who saw him that night.

[klaasend]

I find in the Amy Bradly case things in common with the holloway case

1. They Both disapeared in Aruba
2. They Both disappeared in the early hours.
3. They dispeared when invite by someone to join to some place

Bendex, I have to disagree. Amy did not disappear in Aruba. She disappeared almost a day later....at sea.

kerin--hey girl!
i 'm going to bed soon
can i get the simple mind theory?

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words)
Girl with friends sees boy again, friends leave
Girl leaves with boy (no assumtions)
Girl and boy get in vechicle
Vechicle drives off into the night.
Boy alive and well, as well as 2 others in the car (remember no statements are any good.)

Girl is missing and no one can tell us, how, why, when where. You have one thing left guilt.

Without statements for or against where does the guilt logically fall.

It falls with Joran, Deepak and Satish....in that order.

[friend of monkeys]

I did see this earlie today absolut-
thanx..silly me i thought it was a little more complx!

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words)
Girl with friends sees boy again, friends leave
Girl leaves with boy (no assumtions)
Girl and boy get in vechicle
Vechicle drives off into the night.
Boy alive and well, as well as 2 others in the car (remember no statements are any good.)

Girl is missing and no one can tell us, how, why, when where. You have one thing left guilt.

Without statements for or against where does the guilt logically fall.[/quote]

[KerinTX]

I find in the Amy Bradly case things in common with the holloway case

1. They Both disapeared in Aruba
2. They Both disappeared in the early hours.
3. They dispeared when invite by someone to join to some place

Bendex, I have to disagree. Amy did not disappear in Aruba. She disappeared almost a day later....at sea.

kerin--hey girl!
i 'm going to bed soon
can i get the simple mind theory?

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words)
Girl with friends sees boy again, friends leave
Girl leaves with boy (no assumtions)
Girl and boy get in vechicle
Vechicle drives off into the night.
Boy alive and well, as well as 2 others in the car (remember no statements are any good.)

Girl is missing and no one can tell us, how, why, when where. You have one thing left guilt.

Without statements for or against where does the guilt logically fall.

Thanks Absolut!! I was still typing. LOL

[DT]

absolut, I'm guessing depends on the results of autopsy.

good one.
next what if   absolut

No evidence of foulplay in the autopsy, sorry I should have clarifed. Is location enough?

What is the cause of death?

Very difficult to tell lots of damage from water and rocks and enivonment.

You couldn't convict of murder or any other crime except something similar to lying to the police. It is to bad that his lies have destroyed any and all credibility so that even if he tells what happened without some evidence we may never know.

[TTownMike]

"Underground Party"  Sunday night, school night, small island with 100,000 people on it, International School as 9 kids in a class.  Not likely, and if it was people would have known about it and the kids would have squealed already.

I agree with that.  So, ok, this isn't a party of International School kids.  But from an earlier post (about 10 days ago), these parties do exist and they are illegal if they are held without a prior permit from the police.  It has to be a party that Joran knew about, not the brothers, since this theory has the brothers dropping Natalee and Joran off.

Let me please try again, and keep shooting at this theory if you would:

1.. Natalee and 3 guys leave CnC and head to one of those underground parties.
2. The brothers drop Natalee and Joran off at the party and head home.
3. "Something bad happened" - there was a nutcase at the party (maybe it was a party full of nutcases) and one of them took Natalee off from Joran.
4. Joran gets pushed out of the party.  Joran calls Deepak for help at 2:40.  Deepak says no, I'm not getting involved with your rough friends, you handle it.  Joran walks home, then text-messages Deepak that he made it home (maybe that is a coverup text-message, one for the police to find later?).  Now what do the 3 guys do? Yikes. They lie.

Please, everyone - what facts do we have that invalidate this theory?

I jus gotta say, after bein in the pokey for what 3 weeks?, if this were what happened, Urine would have spilt it by now!  If so, he could produce much evidence to coroborate the story.  He might be in trouble for it but then again where is he now?

[KackyLacky]

Why walk home in the middle of the night when you have to do final exams in the morning ?

Why sent a message to kalpoe walking home

If I have a finalk exam in the morning  I would like to hit the sack and ask for a pickup.

right, and according to arubagirl, there could have been a good chance he could have been seen walking. Odd

[absolut]

absolut, I'm guessing depends on the results of autopsy.

good one.
next what if   absolut

No evidence of foulplay in the autopsy, sorry I should have clarifed. Is location enough?

no.

Is location enough to hold Joran, it may be the only extra piece of evidence we get.

your location is only lighthouse or marriot or others??
whatever else found there would be important...unpredictable imo

Yep 1 of 2 locations. She is clothed. That is it, no evidence of sex.

[iquitos]

Nothing typed here is going to be used in a court of law to convict or free someone so I dont understand what difference it makes what side of Jorans coin we are on.  Opinions he is innocent are based on minimal knowledge and opinions he is quilty is based on the same, it appears if the opinion is different than your own, then you dont feel it is worthy of comment.

 

taz you are so right, and at least we have to read the other side to answer it and some of it might actually rub off.  i think it unwise to judge either way without sufficient information and think name calling, demonization and personalization is petty and juvenile.  sometimes though i think we are taking positions just for the sake of argument.  that is ok too.  the free exchange of ideas is what this is all about.  we should all strive to keep it civil.

[GreatOwl]

THANKS, greatowl

that ok, cause I give a whooooot!

[KackyLacky]

runaway bride is a liar, with fake susan smith tears. It makes me sick.

oops,. sorry OT. Last time tonite

[Anna]

I am SURE that 99% of the people on this board are acting/feeling; out of a total emotional basis. I would feel much better of most of you could produce some basis to back up your theories. To me subjecting someone to be convicted of raping, drugging, sociopath, etc. should at least be backed up by some sort of reasoning. Just saying he lied once, just doen'st cut it (in my book). But that's just me I try hard to be open minded. If any of you are ever convicted in a public forum when you are in-fact innocent then you might be  bit more tollerant to base your theories on reasoning. Emotions are what is RUINING the world at the moment. We have radical terrorists killing innocents all in the name of what? To me a socialized society should condem radicalism and the thoughts that make a gang/mob rule mentality prevade any culture.
 While I look forward to thoughts and debate, I cringe on what I see here as an immediate conviction but because of a POSSIBLE mistake in judgement.
 With that said I see lots of HYPOCRACY, in holding Joran to a different standard than the Mountain Brook kids. Maybe some personal responsiblity should have been discussed before this trip took place. Even Jug Twity proclaimed his elder son took the trip 3 years before and told of the rowdy/dangeruous behavior at carlos and Charlies. I guess it is talk like mine here that has run people off?

GuyWdog

<<

Most of us have stated our sources/reasons/logic until we just can't keep doing it over and over several times a day.  Maybe a tiptoe through the archives would answer most of your questions for while there is a great deal of emotion, I don't think that is really what is behind the vast majority of theories.  

No, you have that backwards for this blog has held the MB kids to a much higher standard than Joren who has been allowed to do pretty much anything for years.  The MB kids are trashed because they do not talk to the MSM and tell things that never happened.  If they all say the same they have been given a script and if they say something different, gotcha!  Joren changes his story three times, and well, bless his heart!  He kept lying during the crucial first hours when there might have been a chance of finding her alive, fingered two innocent guards and got them arrested and still did not come clean.  He was perfectly willing to have them take the blame for this if he could pull that off.

You see nothing wrong with those two secrutiy guards being identified by Joren and Crue and arrested on their word?  

His mother says he is in anger management therapy for kicking his little brothers and he threw a kid through a plate glass window, etc. starts two fights with the MB kids and on and on.

Why are you such a fan of Joren and other than the emotion which you blame on others, what is your source or reasoning?  His behavior seems like the good boy his mother says he is who doesn't drink or do drugs, etc. despite all those photos on the web of him doing so and eyewitnesses to the contrary.  Why do his friends tease him about roofies on some of the sites?  And he is not the one missing, one of the MB kids is and he was the last seen with her and pounds his chest when asked what might have happened to her/  There are lots of reasons why some of us do not think he is just a good sweetheart but not much just based on pure emotion.  So why do you think none of this matters, not even sending two innocent men to prison to try to g et them to take his punishment?

[PoorPaulaNNJ]

Hi, All;
Do I dare ask.....any developments?
 

[Another K in Texas]

With that said I see lots of HYPOCRACY, in holding Joran to a different standard than the Mountain Brook kids. Maybe some personal responsiblity should have been discussed before this trip took place. Even Jug Twity proclaimed his elder son took the trip 3 years before and told of the rowdy/dangeruous behavior at carlos and Charlies.

They are suspects; naturally they will be held to a different standard and pointing that out over and over and over without contributing to existing discussions is pointless and inflammatory. And the MB students are teenagers acting like teens. I'm sure you did the same growing up - we all did.

I guess it is talk like mine here that has run people off?


I did not see the original post so don't know who said it, but that part about running people off i probably true.

First, there is no hypocacy in fact.  Joran is underage.  Even in Aruba.  The MB kids were not.  

Yes they were all teens having "fun" and probably being rowdy and partying.

THEY were not the last ones to be seen with Natalee.  The three that were arrested were.

The character of the other kids on this trip has zero to do with those who took Natalee away.

[friend of monkeys]

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback on my "underground party" theory.

I copy-pasted everyone's feedback into a Word document so that I can digest it and see if I can plug the holes in my theory.

The basic holes are:

1. I need a location for this party!  As Arubagirl said, the island is small and word gets around.  However, Lorenzo is known to have underground parties in his more isolated home.  He is the Lorenzo that the police questioned about 2 weeks ago.
2. I need a true and valid reason why Joran would lie.  If others grabbed the girl away from him, he would have just been hollaring and frantic to the police.  I need a reason why, instead, he lied plus got others to back his false story.

Is there another hole, or did I capture the two basic problems?

well, okay, is there a hole in lorenzoes head??
he is nowhere in this...did he take off??

[rogers]

arubagirl

Thanks, that is what I am trying to figure out. Surely if someone, a citizen saw him walking alone or with a girl, after all this press, wouldn't that have come out, or been told to the LE?...It makes no sense to me that we have heard from no one who saw him that night.

Most tourist are too into their own vacation experience to notice others, especially after 11pm.

The beach between the Mariott and Hi is very dark.  Easy place to sneak up on unsuspecting persons.

[pinemeadows]

2. I need a true and valid reason why Joran would lie.  If others grabbed the girl away from him, he would have just been hollaring and frantic to the police.  I need a reason why, instead, he lied plus got others to back his false story.

Is there another hole, or did I capture the two basic problems?

I think you have a good handle on it....my concern was why would Deepak and Satish sit quietly in jail for someone they don't even know very well???

[~TAZ_MAN~]

2. I need a true and valid reason why Joran would lie.  If others grabbed the girl away from him, he would have just been hollaring and frantic to the police.  I need a reason why, instead, he lied plus got others to back his false story.

Is there another hole, or did I capture the two basic problems?

I think you have a good handle on it....my concern was why would Deepak and Satish sit quietly in jail for someone they don't even know very well???

1. They both lied and hampered a kidnapping investigation.

and or

2. One or both have something more to do with it.

[absolut]

Now to flip the body discussion on you. What are scenarios where Joran wants the body found for his own sake?