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Author Topic: RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening  (Read 251939 times)
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bendex
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« Reply #620 on: June 26, 2005, 10:49:38 PM »

A personall friend of mine was raped in Aruba over 8 years ago , she was staying at friends house" a doctor and his family who had hs practice over there " . Apperently the house was near where the fisherman worked.

Apprently a fisherman ( she taught it was a fisherman as he smelt like fish )  came in via the window Put a knife on her troath and commited this awfull crime .  

The crime was comitted while the family was sleeping in other rooms in the house.




Now question , has there been any rape cases the recent years in Aruba ?
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Only the facts
HannieC
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« Reply #621 on: June 26, 2005, 10:49:54 PM »

I`m sorry to say this but...............Are there not a lot of people in the US having a Psychatrist ( sorry for my spelling  Confused )? I thought that was more common in the US then in what country at all?!
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If you create a theory, you fall in the trap of trying to fit the facts to your theory...
LilOrphan
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« Reply #622 on: June 26, 2005, 10:50:19 PM »

Quote from: "arubagirl"
LilOrphan, probably, there aren't that many Trappenberg here, but I don't know how close the relation is.


Thanks again. You are a wealth of information.  I read somewhere else she's in the whole Joran/Jaime tickle friend link.  Sure someone else has pointed this out, but wasn't sure if the relationship to RT existed.
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GuyWdog
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« Reply #623 on: June 26, 2005, 10:50:23 PM »

Finally a REAL Debate that can be based on thruths, and knowledge and experience. thanx

GuyWdog
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Dallas Also
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« Reply #624 on: June 26, 2005, 10:51:05 PM »

friend of monkey, all I know is that Lorenzo was questioned and released.

arubagirl, NativeLingo, or Americaninaruba may have more information, but I assume that Lorenzo is just back in his normal day-to-day life now.  He is not part of the current investigation.

But, he was.  He was questioned.  He is a "bad news" guy on the island.

Once Natalee is in the car, I can see a youthful Joran saying to her "hey, I know this great party to go to."  Maybe,,... "some of the musicians from the big concert might be there".

But as Arubagirl stated, she knows of no party that occurred that night on the island.  And word travels fast there.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #625 on: June 26, 2005, 10:52:02 PM »

Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Hi, All;
Do I dare ask.....any developments?
 Shocked


Well - since when?   Smile

Croes is going to be released tomorrow.  Pops VDS is out.

A lot of contentious individuals present and accounted for this evening.
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #626 on: June 26, 2005, 10:52:03 PM »

Quote from: "Dallas Also"

2. I need a true and valid reason why Joran would lie.  If others grabbed the girl away from him, he would have just been hollaring and frantic to the police.  I need a reason why, instead, he lied plus got others to back his false story.


Greta talked about this in one of her last reports. She said that she didn't think Joran having his friends cover for him made him look guilty. He may have just been scared. Or maybe he didn't want people to know that he had some relationship with Natalee. And remember , Greta is a former prosecutor. Rolling Eyes
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Curiosity
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« Reply #627 on: June 26, 2005, 10:52:09 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "GuyWdog"
I am SURE that 99% of the people on this board are acting/feeling; out of a total emotional basis. I would feel much better of most of you could produce some basis to back up your theories. To me subjecting someone to be convicted of raping, drugging, sociopath, etc. should at least be backed up by some sort of reasoning. Just saying he lied once, just doen'st cut it (in my book). But that's just me I try hard to be open minded. If any of you are ever convicted in a public forum when you are in-fact innocent then you might be  bit more tollerant to base your theories on reasoning. Emotions are what is RUINING the world at the moment. We have radical terrorists killing innocents all in the name of what? To me a socialized society should condem radicalism and the thoughts that make a gang/mob rule mentality prevade any culture.
 While I look forward to thoughts and debate, I cringe on what I see here as an immediate conviction but because of a POSSIBLE mistake in judgement.
 With that said I see lots of HYPOCRACY, in holding Joran to a different standard than the Mountain Brook kids. Maybe some personal responsiblity should have been discussed before this trip took place. Even Jug Twity proclaimed his elder son took the trip 3 years before and told of the rowdy/dangeruous behavior at carlos and Charlies. I guess it is talk like mine here that has run people off?

GuyWdog
<<

Most of us have stated our sources/reasons/logic until we just can't keep doing it over and over several times a day.  Maybe a tiptoe through the archives would answer most of your questions for while there is a great deal of emotion, I don't think that is really what is behind the vast majority of theories.  

No, you have that backwards for this blog has held the MB kids to a much higher standard than Joren who has been allowed to do pretty much anything for years.  The MB kids are trashed because they do not talk to the MSM and tell things that never happened.  If they all say the same they have been given a script and if they say something different, gotcha!  Joren changes his story three times, and well, bless his heart!  He kept lying during the crucial first hours when there might have been a chance of finding her alive, fingered two innocent guards and got them arrested and still did not come clean.  He was perfectly willing to have them take the blame for this if he could pull that off.

You see nothing wrong with those two secrutiy guards being identified by Joren and Crue and arrested on their word?  

His mother says he is in anger management therapy for kicking his little brothers and he threw a kid through a plate glass window, etc. starts two fights with the MB kids and on and on.

Why are you such a fan of Joren and other than the emotion which you blame on others, what is your source or reasoning?  His behavior seems like the good boy his mother says he is who doesn't drink or do drugs, etc. despite all those photos on the web of him doing so and eyewitnesses to the contrary.  Why do his friends tease him about roofies on some of the sites?  And he is not the one missing, one of the MB kids is and he was the last seen with her and pounds his chest when asked what might have happened to her/  There are lots of reasons why some of us do not think he is just a good sweetheart but not much just based on pure emotion.  So why do you think none of this matters, not even sending two innocent men to prison to try to g et them to take his punishment?


Thank you Anna.....well said. And I especially notice the piece about the higher standard of the MB kids.....isn't that the truth. They gave so much in the early days here, only to be run off. It breaks my heart to see what happened to them here. I enjoyed reading what they had to say, since they weren't just speculating ideas.....they lived part of the real story.
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PoorPaulaNNJ
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« Reply #628 on: June 26, 2005, 10:52:53 PM »

Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "PoorPaulaNNJ"
Hi, All;
Do I dare ask.....any developments?
 Shocked


Well - since when?   Smile

Croes is going to be released tomorrow.  Pops VDS is out.

A lot of contentious individuals present and accounted for this evening.


Hmmm, what about EquuSearch? Any news from them?
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iquitos
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« Reply #629 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:07 PM »

Quote from: "~TAZ_MAN~"
Quote from: "iquitos"
i heard somewhere that there is no correlation betwen sociopathic behaviour and murder.  i guess there are degrees of sociopathic behaviours just like any other psyhcolocial condition.  as to joran's other psychiatric issues, they were apparent enough that his parents sought help for him and apparently he was in therapy.  most people would not go that far with a problem kid so they were diligent in that respect.  we don't know what his problem was other than "anger management" and we don't know how he expressed his anger.  i wonder if the prfessional that talked about Joran was his psychiatrist.   if it was, sounds like an ethical lapse to me.   in any case, if they actually charge and try Joran, we eill find out about any condition that might have led him to harm Natalee. It could  also form the basis of an insanity defence.


the line that separates a narcissist from the sociopath is that the sociopath will have some sort of involvement with criminal activity that usually escalates.


 but not murder, i suppose.  not a shrink.  was there a post on hasibokos or was this in the dutch pressabout his therapy?   i forgot  is sociopathic behaviour a form of insanity.  don't we all have a little of these in us.  is it about aressted development.  are all teens dealing with narcisism as they grow into their bodies?  Embarassed
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DT
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« Reply #630 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:15 PM »

Quote from: "HannieC"
I`m sorry to say this but...............Are there not a lot of people in the US having a Psychatrist ( sorry for my spelling  Confused )? I thought that was more common in the US then in what country at all?!


Probably so, but it doesn't bode well when you have allegations of anger problems and you are seeing a shrink.  Add to that his involvment in the disappearence (not saying to what extent) and you have a situation that doesn't bode well for Natalee.
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inspector_detector
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« Reply #631 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:23 PM »

Quote from: "HannieC"
I`m sorry to say this but...............Are there not a lot of people in the US having a Psychatrist ( sorry for my spelling  Confused )? I thought that was more common in the US then in what country at all?!


Yeah, we're pretty much all nuts... Laughing
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Indyfreelancer
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« Reply #632 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:23 PM »

Quote from: "Curiosity"
The released suspects seem to have upset quite a few people's theories. But to me, my ideas are still the same. I never thought that either Steve Croes or papa VDS were necessary to the situation with Joren. They were interesting to speculate more scenarios....but still not necessary to come up with scenarios that could have happened had they never have been suspects.

At this point, I still beleive there is something amiss when three boys plot together to tell a lie about their whereabouts that night. That lie even put two innocent victims in jail (the out of work guards). That original story has caused countless days to be lost, in searching the correct area. (I'm assuming that the beach story is the closest story we have to the truth thus far.) What was the purpose of this original story? If Joren and Natalee were left on the beach....why not just tell the truth to begin with?? Nope, when a person fabircates a story to cover up something....dragging innocent people into their mess (and maybe even two more innocents if the brothers turn out to be innocent), then I have to beleive something is being hidden by JVDS who was the last person to see Natalee alive.

Maybe Joren didn't murder Natalee, but something did happen that caused him to fabricate lies. I'm still sticking with the theory that Joren knows a lot more than he has told to date. I just haven't a clue as to what could be so dire as to necessitate lying and getting freinds to join in the lies? But it does make either murder, manslaughter or even an accident very suspicious under the circumstances.

Now as to why hasn't he broken yet??? His friends have....otherwise we wouldn't have the story about Joren being dropped on the beach along with Natalee while the friends drove off....and Joren walking home later. Is it the truth?? Who knows? But I doubt the brothers would have changed their stories putting Joren in the defensive if it was another lie.  Maybe Joren thinks holding out is better than chancing several years more in jail! Let's not forget that his dad was in the legal field, and I'm sure Joren's heard a lot of legal stories during his youth to refer to.


Curiosity - I think you are on to something here.  Joran and maybe Deepak and Satish are definitely guilty of something.  

Maybe they really did drop the two off at the Marriott.  However, that's where the lies begin.  Joran goes too far, NH says "no", but he doesn't stop.  After its over, she says "leave me alone" and he does - figuring that she's leaving in a couple of hours and there's no way that she'll call the cops.

Then what happens?  I see several scenarios:

1.  NH goes for a dip in the ocean to "clean off" and being slightly inebriated, drowns.  If so why no body?  Not likely.

2.  A distraught NH is abducted on her walk back to the HI.  Possible and since it may mean that she's still alive, one that I would like to believe.

3.  NH can't bear to go back to her friends and family after what has happened to her and decides to run away.  Maybe, but no money, no passport - where would she go?  Also seems out of character.

Again, just speculation on my part, but given what little we know, I think the only explanation is that the 3 in custody are guilty of something, but really don't know where she is.  Otherwise, they would have broken by now.  

Then again, why haven't they admitted what they're guilty of under intense questioning???  AAHHH, this is driving me crazy!

Also, on a final note, what does NH's character really have to do with anything (other than to establish the likelihood of #3)??  Good person, bad person, sober, drunk, high on drugs, or not, she didn't deserve whatever it is that has happened to her.  She is the victim - I think some have forgotten that.

Peace!  I'm out...
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golden
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« Reply #633 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:26 PM »

Quote from: "da wench"
Quote from: "Tila_Bean"
Oh gawd.  Geraldo was just brushing the hair off of Steve Croes momma face.  How sweet of him! Laughing


Is he OCD?


No, he's just a big old FLIRT.
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Mom in Ark
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« Reply #634 on: June 26, 2005, 10:53:43 PM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "bendex"
Why walk home in the middle of the night when you have to do final exams in the morning ?

Why sent a message to kalpoe walking home

If I have a finalk exam in the morning  I would like to hit the sack and ask for a pickup.


right, and according to arubagirl, there could have been a good chance he could have been seen walking. Odd Exclamation


I thought the finals were the next week.
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Whodunit?
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« Reply #635 on: June 26, 2005, 10:54:15 PM »

Hey, all, why did PVDS get out tonite and SC has to wait until tomorrow?  Didn't he have a ride home?


Hmmmmmmm
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Professor
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« Reply #636 on: June 26, 2005, 10:54:57 PM »

Here is the link to Cal Tech, again. The Profile of the Sociopath. All it lacked was a picture of Joran van der Sloot, at the side.

http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

Actually, there is one characteristic that doesn't quite fit. It claims that sociopaths tend to be slackers and poor students. But it is almost the rule that narcissists (the larval form of sociopaths) do quite well in school and in business. When the narcissist learns that he can "beat the system," he becomes a slacker, and academic performance drops off. Joran appears to be at that point in the development cycle. He is emerging as a full-fledged maggot.

Note that most narcissists and sociopaths fit the profile TO A TEE, so it ain't exactly rocket science spotting one (thank God).

If you need for me to repost my Profile of the Narcissist, and show how Joran fits the profile to a TEE, I shall do so. But only upon request.

And why should any of you give a sh*t? Because psychologist are unanimous about one point. After a sociopath gets away with ONE major crime, LOOK OUT. There's no stopping him then.

And that's a fact, Jack.
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ExTexinAZ
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« Reply #637 on: June 26, 2005, 10:54:57 PM »

Quote from: "~TAZ_MAN~"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Dallas Also"
2. I need a true and valid reason why Joran would lie.  If others grabbed the girl away from him, he would have just been hollaring and frantic to the police.  I need a reason why, instead, he lied plus got others to back his false story.

Is there another hole, or did I capture the two basic problems?


I think you have a good handle on it....my concern was why would Deepak and Satish sit quietly in jail for someone they don't even know very well???


1. They both lied and hampered a kidnapping investigation.

and or

2. One or both have something more to do with it.


Or someone threatened to give them a Columbian necktie?  Pure speculation on my part, believe me.
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candygirl
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« Reply #638 on: June 26, 2005, 10:54:58 PM »

Quote from: "GuyWdog"
Scott can you factually prove these words of yours? I would be interested to see the documentation of these Anger management classes? it is stuff like this that has demonized Americans around the world. I base my theories on what has been told us by the authorities, and what has been PROVEN to be TRUTHS. Not what I HEARD`someone's friends friends friends friend said to another peron on another board somewhere on the internet. lets see the proof, please?

GuyWdog


Scroll down til you see joran's pic' and read up;

http://www.hasibokos.com/hbknews/default.asp?view=day&blogDate=6/11/2005  
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Another K in Texas
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« Reply #639 on: June 26, 2005, 10:55:34 PM »

Ok, the party is on a yacht.  Someone Joran met at the Casino.  People who cam into town for the Soul Festival.
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