RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[Another K in Texas]

Ok, the party is on a yacht.  Someone Joran met at the Casino.  People who cam into town for the Soul Festival.

I LIKE this theory.  Arubagirl, could this occur?  Were there yachts in town for the Soul Festival?

If the party is on the yacht, and something bad happened, we might have a reason for them to stay quiet.

One possiblity is that is was pure accident, but the Yacht owner is someone powerful enough--underworld for example--not to want anyone looking at their boat too closely.  So they will take care of the body and the boys will be quiet or families will pay.

Hence the wall of silence.



Second, someone one the yacht wants Nat--not the intention of the boys--but it happens--and the threat is the same.  Stay quiet or she dies and you and your families will pay.

Sounds like a bad movie plot- but a yacht leaving before she is missing would not be checked too closely I imagine.

[pinemeadows]

YES!  Where were the One-A-Days when I had post-partum depression?  Dang!  If only I had known Tom Cruise back then.

 

What goes around comes around....after all his negative, when his career is down the tubes, he'll be begging for medication.

Good night all

[wwizard]

one thing bugs me tho....WHY wood u kidnap an AMERICAN knowing that ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE IF YOU DID

[Dallas Also]

I really dont buy into any theory of an outside party unless Natalies friends in the Casino that night had heard them talking about it.  The way kids are they will talk and brag about a party going on to everyone within shouting distance.  A party would have been something that was known.
Kids dont keep that kind of stuff quiet.

TAZ_MAN -

Natalee DID ask Joran, in the Casino, the following: "We're going to CnC's tonight?  Will you be there?"

Joran responded that he doesn't normally go to CnC's on a Sunday night, that it is dead on a Sunday night.

So, what if this conversation was overheard in the Casino????

[GreatOwl]

time for me to give it a rest... be back tomorrow.......

[igsigs]

Maybe i missed it...but where is the apology that the 3 amigos owe natalee, natalee's family and all of Aruba for that matter? If they are innocent the main reason they are still in jail is because of their own lies. The monumental agony that these 3 have laid at the feet of the Holloway family is without excuse. every lie they tell jerks the Holloways back and forth. running to the lighthouse, draining ponds by the hotel, searching the brothels...all ending in pain and fear of not knowing. what is the next story that will taunt Nat's family and end in heatbreak? i know joren feels sorry for his mom. i know the Kalpoes apologized to the security guards. when will these 3 step up and apologize to Nat and her family for the lies?

Look at it from their point of view. The way they see it Natalee has gotten them all in trouble. They seem to think that Natalee has caused all of this on purpose and just ran away or something. I'm not sure they comprehended at the time that Natalee could really have been kidnapped or murdered. Just my theory.

If i streeeeetch my imagination and believe that all 3 of these numbnuts think that Natalee "caused all of this on purpose" it still does not excuse all the garbage that has come out of their pieholes.

[Curiosity]

I`m sorry to say this but...............Are there not a lot of people in the US having a Psychatrist ( sorry for my spelling   )? I thought that was more common in the US then in what country at all?!

well I wouldn't say a lot, and there are several types of psyche help: there is psychiatrists ( prescribe meds);psychologists ( counseling ); then there are therapists or counselors who may not have a medical degree.
It really is not a big deal. I think the reason it is an issue in this case, is because joran apparently has an anger problem he needs counseling for, combined with being suspected of a possible violent crime. That is the connection I see anyway.

Actually, the fact that Joran is seeing a psychiatrist is the EXCEPTION, and not the RULE for sociopaths. Most sociopaths never end up in therapy because they are skilled manipulators (Mommy, mommy, if you had not gone to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house.) and are good at getting what they want. Usually, it's a co-worker, spouse, or family member who ends up in therapy. Narcissists and sociopaths don't go crazy, they drive OTHER people crazy.

And, to the best of my knowledge, the psychiatrist wasn't the first attempt at family intervention. When Joran was beating up on his little brother (which his mother -- in true narcissistc fashion -- claimed was perfectly normal teenage behavior), he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes. Yes. THAT is the clincher, and NOT the fact that he is now seeing a psychiatrist.

Good catch....I can see this idea.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I will say again, if Joran has ever had a history of hurting animals would be interesting to me.

Well, we don't know about animals, but we know about children....per his mother.

Ive heard the stories about his hurting his brothers thats why I find the outside apartment (if it is true) extremely interesting.  

Can these be just normal fights between siblings or is this something that really worried the parents?
The animal issue is something that no one has even eluded to, its just me questioning more possible explanations for his behavioral problems if they are as bad as they are being reported.

Many killers have hurt animals purposely at some point in their life.  Its really a strong sign of some internal aggression stemming usually from a disruptive household environment.

I fear his behavior was escalating and this time he went too far.

[TTownMike]

Sorry my dear new friends, just a thought........

TTownMike  i`m agree with a lot of youre statements, but I don`t like the fact that that the people are =namecalling such as URIN his name is JORAN, And van der Slease ...pfff please opinion is ok but this people are slandered tru the mud and we know sh%t I can`t follow that ..I blame my dutch inheiritage than, but we and I are not just to this namecalling if we don`t know jack,,,, sorry sue me  I don`t like that! But hey I guess thats my problem....

Yeah, I'd like to rag on TTownMike for that but RB would kick me out ASAP!

Awright thats enough!  That is exactly what Greta calls him!  Am I wrong?
PS Hannie, you don't like anything I say so THATS JUST GREAT WITH ME!

[Anna]

Here is the post yet again for those who do not understand how NH came to be in the car with Joren...........
....... Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone . . .“
 ...................
So for those in love with the theory of a pretty girl being just so hot to trot for Joren, while you might really enjoy this scenario it is not likely what happened at all.  .

Anna,
With all due respect, Natalle by most accounts was hanging out with Joran since 9:30 that night. At least thats what was reported by the 'Birmingham News' today. So it is probable that she did establish enough of a rapport to feel she could trust him & accept a ride with him.

<<

So you did not even bother to read the timeline?  No, she left him at the casino and went to C&C with her friends and NOT Joren where he said no one went on Sunday and she did NOT expect to see him there.

Yes, it is possible she could have accepted a ride with him back to HI just where she told her friend she was going but the fact is she never arrived. there.  Not ever.  And there is absolutely nothing to support this theory that she wanted anything more from him that a ride to the HI but so many have contended otherwise.

So what if she accepted a ride with him?  That explains what happend to her and why?  Are you saying if a girl accepts a ride it means anything more than that and she should be made to disappear for that is just what happened.

[candygirl]

what about a private plane?  could band members leave easily enuf without normal procedures?

[TTownMike]

Kerin, etals, I like that theory too!

that's because you are "one of us" TT.  

Aww gorsh, thanks fer that!

[~TAZ_MAN~]

The interview with Jorans mom if I remember correctly didnt talk about Joran going to meditation classes and Yoga for anger management, his mom said in detainment he has been meditating and doing Yoga in a way to keep himself mentally strong will being kept in jail.

[HannieC]

Proffesor i like your comments but you`re obviasly biased and have already judged them or Joran, That is not an opinion anymore is my guess, but a accusation !! And you know just as much as we do so ...it leaves me wondering.........

[gaijin]

Evening all..know what..???this case is over..we have lost this girl..
my heart is broken...but we wiill never know what happeneed to this child...she is lost to us........its over..

[iquitos]

Here is the post yet again for those who do not understand how NH came to be in the car with Joren.

>>Hi, LUNA. As you can see, I'm Puggywug. I post this alot when there are questions about Natalee getting in the car. Here is a quote from Dash's mom who also posts here:

"My daughter spoke with Natalee right after C&C's closed. My daughter & her friends came across Nat & Joran as all were exiting the club, and all were walking more or less together toward another group of classmates...

Natalee was walking unassisted (not falling down drunk), spoke ok (though not answering in long sentences), and was not touching Joran.

Nat assured them that she was fine, and said she was going to go back to the hotel "with THEM," pointing to the MBHS group just a few yards ahead. The Kalpoes were nowhere in sight; neither was the car.

Next {woman’s daughter} heard was that Natalee got into a car that many in the group had thought was a taxi. (Those look like regular cars.) It may be that the Kalpoes pulled up on the street before Natalee reached the next group; Joran may have deliberately stalled her. The group may not have even realized she was behind them, approaching.

But while we hear that she got in the car willingly, we know from her comments that it was not her pre-planned intention. Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone . . .“
 
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?t=303&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=400<<

On the Dark Side is an article that describes a practice called "carving out" that is used to separate vulnerable targets from their group whereby the men involved surround the female and just sort of jostle her to an awaiting car.  An article is written about how this was used on a member of a group until the males of the group drove those attempting the maneuver away.

The other kids thought it was a taxi so who's to say NH did not also think that but she said she intended to go with the group to the HI and said nothing about going with Joren while leaving C&C's.  We cannot know what was in her mind nor what her intentions might have been but we do know what she had just said.

So for those in love with the theory of a pretty girl being just so hot to trot for Joren, while you might really enjoy this scenario it is not likely what happened at all.  And please keep in mine the socio=economic status of these kids.  It's not like this was their one and only vacation ever and they had to make the most of it, it was just a graduation trip, hardly anything to get hysterical about.  They come from their own little paradise and have advantages most do not.

dash's mom posted other scenarios including the "yahoo aruba" one on another website very early on.  these have been posted here in the past. But as Dash herself has told us, she did not see Natalee get into the car and as far as we know the taxi scenario is pure speculation.  In fact, if i am not mistaken we know the kalpoes were with joran in the bar.   personally, i don't buy the scenario of natalle somehow being abducted as she left the bar.  later maybe.  but we have no basis for thinking she was taken against her when they left the bar.

[Scott]

If the party is on the yacht, and something bad happened, we might have a reason for them to stay quiet.

One possiblity is that is was pure accident, but the Yacht owner is someone powerful enough--underworld for example--not to want anyone looking at their boat too closely.  So they will take care of the body and the boys will be quiet or families will pay.

Hence the wall of silence.

Second, someone one the yacht wants Nat--not the intention of the boys--but it happens--and the threat is the same.  Stay quiet or she dies and you and your families will pay.

Sounds like a bad movie plot- but a yacht leaving before she is missing would not be checked too closely I imagine.

The FBI could have the van der Sloots and Kalpoes living in Yuma and Flagstaff, Arizona tomorrow with all new identities if there was any truth to this kind of rumor.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I really dont buy into any theory of an outside party unless Natalies friends in the Casino that night had heard them talking about it.  The way kids are they will talk and brag about a party going on to everyone within shouting distance.  A party would have been something that was known.
Kids dont keep that kind of stuff quiet.

TAZ_MAN -

Natalee DID ask Joran, in the Casino, the following: "We're going to CnC's tonight?  Will you be there?"

Joran responded that he doesn't normally go to CnC's on a Sunday night, that it is dead on a Sunday night.


So, what if this conversation was overheard in the Casino????

I dont understand what this question has to do with another party going on that night.  Can you be more specific.

[KackyLacky]

one thing bugs me tho....WHY wood u kidnap an AMERICAN knowing that ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE IF YOU DID

I don't think this amount of media coverage was ever considered. Kind of like kids who don't think 2 steps in front of themselves. I think they thought it would be just brushed aside. I honestly do

[Anna]

Trust you will have all of this solved by morning, am calling it off for today.  If anything important happens, someone post for us all to read in the morning!