RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[Professor]

geez louise...professor:

"he was sent to YOGA AND MEDITATION classes. Yes. THAT is the clincher, and NOT the fact that he is now seeing a psychiatrist."

You have this kid diagnosed as being a sociopath, animal abuser, and something else I can't remember now....I'm sure you will remind me!

His mother said he "TOOK" yoga class, not that he was "sent" to yoga class.  We don't know for certain he is seeing a psychiatrist....and if he is, that is quite a stretch to sociopath.

The discussions here tonight are so far overboard, no pun intended, it's disgusting.  I don't know if Joran killed Nat or not....and neither do you! But you have him tried and convicted...

He told a lie about dropping Nat off....but so far as I can tell, he changed his story to taking her to the Marriott after that.  I think he told the first lie cus he didn't want anyone, his parents or her parents, to know they had sex on the beach.  He's 17, scared and maybe a little stupid.

A sociopath that does not make!!!

Umm, yeah.  They're theories.  I have no idea if the Professor is onto something.  Basically though, we need more brainstorming.

I agree, a nascent insanity defense.

Iquitos, being a sociopath is NEVER grounds for an insanity defense. Sociopaths are in COMPLETE CONTROL AT ALL TIMES.

[GuyWdog]

My lasy post of the nght before bed. Some of you have labeled me a "FAN or JORANS" that is the Fartherest from the truth. it seems when you have a differeing opinion you are Labeled just as these 3 boys and 2 men have been labeled all sorts of names. While I readily admit thast Joran et;al made a huge mistake with their testimony to the police, it is still a stretch to call them gang rapists, murders, sociopaths, and the like. It is just wrong(but that's just my opinion). I will however stick to y original assesments that most people on here are "going on Emotions, rahther than reasoning" with that said I appreciate those of you that derided me also in public. I ment not to point fingers but was making an observation and when I did that I get labeled again.
 Yes there is much hypocracy, enough to go around. But for tonight, I'll leave you all to it. Maybe there is not enough room on here for a dissenting view(but really I am Not a dissenter but am a open minded person).
 I in no way meant to deride anyone, as if you look at my posts I mentined no names as some of the posters have done. I was making an observation and beleive me when I say there are LOTS of people that agree with me as I have recieved MANY PM's from them to voice theeir agreements about the route the board is taking. I fear that when you have a mob rule mentality, the truth will forever be lost and NO ONE will Benefit. I want the TRUTH to come out, and the ONLY way it can come out is if LEVEL heads prevail. I want Joran or whoever did this dastradly deed to have EVERY BENEFT of the DOUBT, for when the evidence comes out that they did it, then they then will get punished to the fullest extint. If he is convicted before hand, amny people around the world will cry foul !
 Enough said, goodnight all and thanx to you all...

GuyWdog

[Dallas Also]

I'm fascinated by this search they are doing...

I never knew cadaver dogs can smell a body even if it's ten feet under water!!!

I'm watching a Fox repeat.

Also, good point made by former NY detective.  He thinks the body has to be close to where Natalee was last seen...the timeline is too tight..and he's 17 yrs. old.  Hmmmmmmm.

The tight timeline assumes they didnt do anything with her the next day and get rid of her in a better place.  Hopefully they didnt because that makes it easier to find her.  I dont believe she was ever at the Marriott, and think she is somewhere on the other side of the island, somewhere they didnt mention in the opposite direction of where they said she was.

TAZ_MAN, I agree that there is no evidence that she was ever at the Marriott.  No witnesses, no sandal or necklace found in the sand.  We did have a Clorox bottle, some condoms, some rope (or tape, which was it?), some women's underwear.  But there is no announcement that these items had any DNA or other evidence to prove that she was ever at the Marriott.

[TTownMike]

It pisses me off (pardon my french) to hear "Sonny Boy's" mom say he says he will "Kick her butt...."!

[K in TX]

It was also on Valentjn's (Joran's bro) gilfriends website. That they were seeing each other that is, not necessarily having sex.

Yes, there is confirmation from Valentijn's girlfriend's blog that Joran was going out with her best friend, a fellow 7th grader -- no confirmation of anything more than dating. This was as recent as March of this year.

Um, okay, now that's just GROSS.  How many seniors want to date SEVENTH graders?

I don't know... she is a very pretty girl, though. And her best friend was dating Joran's brother, who was in the 9th grade.

Pretty or not...GROSS!  Maybe things are different outside of the US, but I know for a fact that when I was in high school, especially as a senior, any senior guy that would have dared to date a 7th grader would have been deemed a weirdo.  Heck, we had some seniors that dated freshman, and even THEY got tons of flack.  It's weird to me, but that's just my opinion, as usual!

 

but wait, if he is a cradle robber why did he take to Natalee who is older than he is?  that does not track wiht the "likes em young" postulation.  and you know what, did you never see the little ones who got a crush on an older boy and it is just some innocent thing?

An innocent crush on an older boy is one thing.  I'm a girl...we've all had them.  And Natalee is hardly "older" than Joran.  Ok, maybe by a few months?  I"m not saying he's a cradle robber...just that it's weird that a 17 year old would...crap.  Nevermind.  It's late.  I'm going to bed.

[Tila_Bean]

isn't that the Asian girl we have heard about before? 13 yrs old

She appears to be of Indian descent, has an Indian name.

Any pictures of this girl?

Even if you had a picture, you wouldn't want to post it here if she's 13yrs old and has nothing at all to do with case.

I was just curious to see where she may be from, but you are absolutely right.

[luna]

iquitos..."I agree, a nascent insanity defense."

THAT made me laugh!

[HannieC]

TT if we`re going to investigate laws by the letter we can go far. I live in the netherlands And I know that`s not a big deal here 3 years or 2 years  difference....

if they are 14 and they are hooked up with a 28 year old or something then you are right, but not so little difference as 2 or 4 years in difference just a culture thing....again

[Dallas Also]

Dallas Also...."Basically though, we need more brainstorming."

I'm all for brainstorming....but saying that because someone took yoga, that is the CLINCHER that he's a sociopath?????

Give me a f***ing break.

Luna, yeah that would be out there.

However, Arubagirl confirmed that she has solid testimony, from a source she can't name, that he was seeing a psychiatrist, both alone and also in sessions with another family member.

That is the fact we were working off of.

[nikkibnurse]

wow...I like this guy on Geraldo right now!!! The pastor

I liked that pastor too..and i am sure i'll get slammed for this one, but Steve croes's mom broke my heart!! That poor lady...

Kerin, check your PM's...

[Professor]

It pisses me off (pardon my french) to hear "Sonny Boy's" mom say he says he will "Kick her butt...."!

Classical symptoms of a narcissistic family. Perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. But my favorite tell tale signs are.

1. Sending a son to yoga and meditation classes, for kicking the shit out of his little brother, and

2. Mommy, if you hadn't gone to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house.

CLASSICAL SYMPTOMS>

[jane]

I had yoga too one time, and i lied also sometimes, i went also to a psyatrist( excuse my spelling :oops: ) Maybe i`m a sociopath as well??

jeeazzz that `s scary.... :shock:

If you are, you would never admit it:) Sociopaths aren't known for their honesty or introspection. I think the most important thing, though, is that you were not the last one seen in the company of Natalee Holloway. That kind of makes a difference.

[MominTN]

The tourism makes the island's businesses look legitimate.  The casinos provide a way to look like alot of money changed hands legally.  They bring in investment money and bank accounts from overseas which go into the local banks allowing them in turn to loan out the money for more construction and ventures.  Money could be made in drug trafficking, but stated to be casino revenue or Tattoo revenue or one of those business ventures advertised for sale on the internet, and unless those who have proof confessed or became a witness, no crime exists.  We all see how fast the police are in gathering evidence and arresting those who are powerful or connected.
Do they have record of drug busts?  Is this something they pursue?
I think the kids, ignorant of the consequences, did something bad to Natalee and now the adults are trying to cover it up before they lose their shirts.  
I think Aruba has more corruption than anything you can dig up on AMSouth or the Twittys ever thought about.  But that is just my opinion.  Probably the natives are good people and unaware of the corruption.

[nancy_drew]

It pisses me off (pardon my french) to hear "Sonny Boy's" mom say he says he will "Kick her butt...."!

Classical symptoms of a narcissistic family. Perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. But my favorite tell tale signs are.

1. Sending a son to yoga and meditation classes, for kicking the shit out of his little brother, and

2. Mommy, if you hadn't gone to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house.

CLASSICAL SYMPTOMS>

We don't know he "kicked the shit out of his little brother", where the heck did that come from?

I agree his comment to his mother about about her being gone is rather weird. But, a sociopath?  Not sure that's a "classical" tell tale sign.  Professor, I agree you go waaayyyyyy out there. Not sure why you do that?

[wwizard]

eye'm spiraling....GTG....ben fun......cu....B.....Y......E

[Shell]

This is just too weird...sometime between a bar closing at 1am, and 3 am when supposedly Jordan gets home from walking 40 min or so, a girl is killed and disposed of? That is assuming he was home when he text messaged his buddy and says I am home. And remember his Dad says he does not remember waking Jordan up that morning. Well, that statement is bullshit. He knew it was Monday and Monday is a school day. What is the man's problem.

This is why we are all banging our heads here. She left with 3 strangers. They were seen with her last and she was alive then, and now there is no Natalie.
They lied, changed stories...I can't get past that to jump to the conclusion that they were not responsible. Just can't.

[katya]

Dallas Also...."Basically though, we need more brainstorming."

I'm all for brainstorming....but saying that because someone took yoga, that is the CLINCHER that he's a sociopath?????

Give me a f***ing break.

*applause*

[TTownMike]

I had yoga too one time, and i lied also sometimes, i went also to a psyatrist( excuse my spelling ) Maybe i`m a sociopath as well??

jeeazzz that `s scary....

If you are, you would never admit it:) Sociopaths aren't known for their honesty or introspection. I think the most important thing, though, is that you were not the last one seen in the company of Natalee Holloway. That kind of makes a difference.

LOL!  Very deductive!

[jane]

Listen, a 17 year old in the "dutch opinion"or a 15 year old or a 16 year old for that effect isn`t scary at all if they`re date or have a 'relationship' with a girl with that age ...sorry that`s illegal in the US but not in other countries ...so what`s the point?

Apparently, the culture she is in thought it was a big deal. Her mother kept her home from school for a day for it, and the following day, there seems to have been some emotional upset for the girl in school over it. Also, IF there was a sexual relationship between the two, it is against the law, there. So, I think that culture is similar to our own in that regard.

Also, when individuals within a culture deviate too far from the norm in this way, they are called deviants. I do think that whatever happened to Natalee Holloway was probably done to her by a deviant.

[katya]

Sorry K in Tx i wasn`t aiming at you, but I heard that statement before and I just say it isn`t such big a deal in europe...

Certainly would not be a big deal anywhere in Latin America, either, in fact it is quite common.