RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[KerinTX]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

I am thinking it may be more that with him being owner of the internet cafe, he wasn't as forthcoming as LE wanted him to be, Mike.

[TTownMike]

"Professor"....perhaps you did not see my comment previously re this statement

"Sending a son to yoga and meditation classes, for kicking the shit out of his little brother, and ..."

I saw the FOX interview with Anita.....the clip is still on their website as far as I know.

She said he "TOOK" yoga in school...and was using what he'd learned to help him in jail.

There was no connection between him kicking his younger brother and him taking yoga.  
Well, I can't say whether you or he is right on that, but that was NOT the only documented instance of violent or out of control behavior. ie. "throwing a classmate through a plate glass windaw"!  I've never done that!  

This is ridiculous.....to say that this confirms he is a sociopath is so absurd that I can't believe I'm even commenting on it.

Lord have mercy....

Y'all are jumpin the Prof but, he's offering a perfectly legitamate theory/opinion which is based on educated knowledge.  Therfore, seems to me his is as welcome as any!

Hey mike, luv ya, but the professor is basing his "diagnosis" on an incorrect statement....one of his "classical symptoms"....eg that his mother sent him to yoga for kicking the sh*t out of his younger brothers is factually incorrect....go watch the FOX clip of the interview with Anita.  She says he "took yoga"....does that make one a sociopath?

And, besides that, for God's sake, what if he had been "sent to yoga for kicking his brother".....how in the hell does that make someone a sociopath?  His evidence is so thin, it is beyond the pale.

Okay....I'm sick of this discussion....if this is "educated knowledge" we are all in trouble.

[Twelve Monkeys]

If Joran is let go due to lack of evidence against him, I wonder what that will do for his college career in the US? Seems he was offered plenty scholorships to the college of his choice..

He can forget about ever going to college in the USA.

At the very least not any college in the South.

[jane]

Classical symptoms of a narcissistic family. Perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. But my favorite tell tale signs are.

1. Sending a son to yoga and meditation classes, for kicking the shit out of his little brother, and

2. Mommy, if you hadn't gone to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house.

CLASSICAL SYMPTOMS>

It seems Anita is showing signs of denial and just trying to find some way of dealing with her son. I would like to know if Anita accepted Joran's invitation to accept the responsibilty for his actions. I don't think he would have used it if it hadn't worked before. I'll bet it has been difficult for her dealing with her manipulative, lying son. There has been convincing evidence that some people are born with this disorder and the rest of the family get 'sick' trying to cope with it.

[iquitos]

My lasy post of the nght before bed. Some of you have labeled me a "FAN or JORANS" that is the Fartherest from the truth. it seems when you have a differeing opinion you are Labeled just as these 3 boys and 2 men have been labeled all sorts of names. While I readily admit thast Joran et;al made a huge mistake with their testimony to the police, it is still a stretch to call them gang rapists, murders, sociopaths, and the like. It is just wrong(but that's just my opinion). I will however stick to y original assesments that most people on here are "going on Emotions, rahther than reasoning" with that said I appreciate those of you that derided me also in public. I ment not to point fingers but was making an observation and when I did that I get labeled again.
 Yes there is much hypocracy, enough to go around. But for tonight, I'll leave you all to it. Maybe there is not enough room on here for a dissenting view(but really I am Not a dissenter but am a open minded person).  
 I in no way meant to deride anyone, as if you look at my posts I mentined no names as some of the posters have done. I was making an observation and beleive me when I say there are LOTS of people that agree with me as I have recieved MANY PM's from them to voice theeir agreements about the route the board is taking. I fear that when you have a mob rule mentality, the truth will forever be lost and NO ONE will Benefit. I want the TRUTH to come out, and the ONLY way it can come out is if LEVEL heads prevail. I want Joran or whoever did this dastradly deed to have EVERY BENEFT of the DOUBT, for when the evidence comes out that they did it, then they then will get punished to the fullest extint. If he is convicted before hand, amny people around the world will cry foul !
 Enough said, goodnight all and thanx to you all...

GuyWdog

GUY:  YOURS HAS BEEN A VERY HEALTHY AND NEEDED PERSPECTVE FOR ALL OF US,  YOU ARE RIGHT ON

[LouLou]

Pine and FOM,
I bet a lot of posters don't know the "WIZ THEORY". So Mr. Wiz, please re-post would ya, please???  

There was someone, mentioned on the Aruba board, he was a DJ, I think, that had after hours parties.

I can't really remember his name but it might have been Whitley or some such.  

A.girl...does that ring a bell?

[TTownMike]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

Part of me thinks this is all a conspriacy to make the Arubian Government look like they are doing all that they can, in order to avoid bad publicity.

I wonder if they are just going through the motions, and plan on letting all of them go in 8 days? Cased dropped due to lack of evidence..Yeah right!!

But isn't it reported that the reason he was held was because he provided an alibi that was simply proven to be wrong!  Hello?  If so any of SONNY BOY"S friends can feel free to hep out!  Doncha thank!

[HannieC]

You know all what is still bothering me..........


That guy who greta mentioned that was not seen anywhere , who whas in the same plane as natalee. Why would greta bring that up on National TV if it wasn`t a good or solid thing, since al the attention was on the kalpoes and joran and the whole family.....

[katya]

My lasy post of the nght before bed. Some of you have labeled me a "FAN or JORANS" that is the Fartherest from the truth. it seems when you have a differeing opinion you are Labeled just as these 3 boys and 2 men have been labeled all sorts of names. While I readily admit thast Joran et;al made a huge mistake with their testimony to the police, it is still a stretch to call them gang rapists, murders, sociopaths, and the like. It is just wrong(but that's just my opinion). I will however stick to y original assesments that most people on here are "going on Emotions, rahther than reasoning" with that said I appreciate those of you that derided me also in public. I ment not to point fingers but was making an observation and when I did that I get labeled again.
 Yes there is much hypocracy, enough to go around. But for tonight, I'll leave you all to it. Maybe there is not enough room on here for a dissenting view(but really I am Not a dissenter but am a open minded person).  
 I in no way meant to deride anyone, as if you look at my posts I mentined no names as some of the posters have done. I was making an observation and beleive me when I say there are LOTS of people that agree with me as I have recieved MANY PM's from them to voice theeir agreements about the route the board is taking. I fear that when you have a mob rule mentality, the truth will forever be lost and NO ONE will Benefit. I want the TRUTH to come out, and the ONLY way it can come out is if LEVEL heads prevail. I want Joran or whoever did this dastradly deed to have EVERY BENEFT of the DOUBT, for when the evidence comes out that they did it, then they then will get punished to the fullest extint. If he is convicted before hand, amny people around the world will cry foul !
 Enough said, goodnight all and thanx to you all...

GuyWdog

GUY:  YOURS HAS BEEN A VERY HEALTHY AND NEEDED PERSPECTVE FOR ALL OF US,  YOU ARE RIGHT ON

Agree wholeheartedly with this statement, too.

[KerinTX]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

Part of me thinks this is all a conspriacy to make the Arubian Government look like they are doing all that they can, in order to avoid bad publicity.

I wonder if they are just going through the motions, and plan on letting all of them go in 8 days? Cased dropped due to lack of evidence..Yeah right!!

But isn't it reported that the reason he was held was because he provided an alibi that was simply proven to be wrong!  Hello?  If so any of SONNY BOY"S friends can feel free to hep out!  Doncha thank!

Again Mike, IF that's what it was (an alibi) then how do we know what it was? Maybe it was an alibi related to e-mails?? Hmmm....thinkaboutit.  

[TTownMike]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

ummmm...let's see....they have no evidence of a crime?

Uuuuuuuummmmmmm?  They got alot o' crap including a missing girl, thas puttin ppl in jail and everbody is lying and sqirming and sure looks like they might think there has been a crime!

[Belle]

I have been reading alot but I don't know your opinion about a couple of questions.  
Has there been a concensus of opinion that you think PVDS already knew that Natalee was missing when Beth and Jug went to his home that first morning?

Did PVDS go with the Twittys to the casino or did he stay at home?
 
 If you think PVDS didn't know Natalee was missing do you think he just told the Twittys that Joran was at the casino to stall the Twittys so he would have time to talk to Joran since he knew Joran was actually at home?  This would have given him time to ask Joran what all of this was about..

[Curiosity]

I don't recall any boy staying behind. But I have heard that one of the chaperones stayed behind. I don' t recall where I read that, as it was quite a while ago. I'm sure it's on this board somewhere.

[cast]

It pisses me off (pardon my french) to hear "Sonny Boy's" mom say he says he will "Kick her butt...."!

Classical symptoms of a narcissistic family. Perfect breeding ground for sociopaths. But my favorite tell tale signs are.

1. Sending a son to yoga and meditation classes, for kicking the shit out of his little brother, and

2. Mommy, if you hadn't gone to Holland, I would never have snuck out of the house.

CLASSICAL SYMPTOMS>

Are you a professional that has diagnosed Joran and family from afar. Damn you are good. What are your hourly rates?

I dont think that was necessary.

Nor was the previous post, but a penny for your thoughts anyway.

As far as I know, I have the same right to speculate as any of the rest of you, and I would invite you to LOOK at the profile of the sociopath and tell me if there is anything there -- ANYTHING -- that doesn't fit with the description of Joran van der Sloot you are getting through the media.

And that has a DIRECT BEARING upon what happened at closing time in Carlos and Charlies, because that explains the cunning with which Natalee was "carved out" and herded into a waiting car.

No one has stated that you you do not have the right to speculate. But since you do have the right to speculate, others have the right to challenge that speculations.

You post that Natalee was carved out and herded into a waiting car.  Well Frances Ellen Byrd has stated more or less in her interview on  (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8083810 'Scarborough Country' for June 2 )that she saw Natalee back at the hotel after they left C& C before the youth minister cut her off.

Tell us about your friend.  Tell us about—about what we can do to help out.  

FRANCES ELLEN BYRD, FRIEND OF NATALEE:  Well, I first met Natalee in eighth grade when we had a welcoming party for her.  She moved here from Mississippi.

And, ever since then, I have just been closest friends with her, as well as a few other of all of our good friends.  Everybody in the school loves Natalee.  Nobody can say anything bad about her.  She is a straight-A student, 25 in a class out of 300 students in a very—school where we studied very hard.  She is very—has very many honors.  She is in dance team, Bible study.  

Basically, she is a very responsible, well-loved child to everyone here.  

SCARBOROUGH:  And, Frances—you were actually with her, Frances, that night.  Tell me when you and the rest of your friends first figured out that something was just not right.  

BYRD:  I figured out something was wrong when my friends came to knock on my door in the morning asking where she was, because Natalee was the first one up.  She is the most responsible out of all of my friends.  And we all—Natalee is the leader of our friends.  

And when she wasn‘t there, we went straight—straight to the chaperons because something—we knew something was wrong.  

SCARBOROUGH:  And, Frances Ellen, you all are from Mountain Brook.  

That‘s a part of Birmingham, correct?  

BYRD:  Right.  

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes.  That‘s an area that I know well, because I went to the University of Alabama and have a lot of friends there.  

Pastor, let me bring you in.  I want to ask you about the prayer vigils that you are holding for this young lady.  Obviously, a lot of people in your community have been touched by her.  Tell us about it.  

BYRD:  Yes.  

MARK YODER, YOUTH PASTOR:  Absolutely.  

We—the interesting thing, Natalee and her family really don‘t go even to our church.  We were asked by some parents of students that went on the trip as well when they got back, hey, can we just have a spot where students and parents and anybody interested can gather and pray?  And, you know, that‘s a no-brainer, so, absolutely.  

So, every day for the last three days, that‘s exactly what we have done.  And it has been a—it‘s not at all surprising because of the community that we are in, but it has been an outpouring of support and love and...  

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:   What are you hearing about this—what are you hearing about this young girl that is missing tonight?  

YODER:  Absolutely everything positive.  You know, as everyone is talking about her and friendships and relationships and her future and what lies ahead, nothing but good things.  

SCARBOROUGH:  Let me ask you, Frances Ellen, when is the last time you saw her?  

BYRD:  That night.  

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes, you saw her the night...

BYRD:  I was with her that night.  

SCARBOROUGH:  You were with her that night.  

BYRD:  Yes.  Yes.  

SCARBOROUGH:  All the friends went back to the hotel.  And did you all see her go back to the hotel or not?  

BYRD:  I am just leaving it that we saw her there.  

SCARBOROUGH:  Saw her that night.  

BYRD:  Right.

YODER:  Yes.  Absolutely.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  

Well, Frances Ellen, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

ummmm...let's see....they have no evidence of a crime?

Uuuuuuuummmmmmm?  They got alot o' crap including a missing girl, thas puttin ppl in jail and everbody is lying and sqirming and sure looks like they might think there has been a crime!

That is undesputable.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I have been reading alot but I don't know your opinion about a couple of questions.  
Has there been a concensus of opinion that you think PVDS already knew that Natalee was missing when Beth and Jug went to his home that first morning?

Did PVDS go with the Twittys to the casino or did he stay at home?
 
 If you think PVDS didn't know Natalee was missing do you think he just told the Twittys that Joran was at the casino to stall the Twittys so he would have time to talk to Joran since he knew Joran was actually at home?  This would have given him time to ask Joran what all of this was about..

PVDS did not go with the Twittys.

Many think Joran was never at the casino, but that is something that can be verified by eyewitnesses.

[golden]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

I am thinking it may be more that with him being owner of the internet cafe, he wasn't as forthcoming as LE wanted him to be, Mike.

Steve owns the Internet Cafe?

[TTownMike]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

I am thinking it may be more that with him being owner of the internet cafe, he wasn't as forthcoming as LE wanted him to be, Mike.

But didn't he provide an attempt at an alibi for the amigos? Like Jug just said!

[TTownMike]

If Joran is let go due to lack of evidence against him, I wonder what that will do for his college career in the US? Seems he was offered plenty scholorships to the college of his choice..

He can forget about ever going to college in the USA.

At the very least not any college in the South.

I'm sure he would get a big welcome here!

[KerinTX]

I still find it wild that Steve Croes gets out when he obviously provided false testimony to help prime suspects cover up an apparent crime!
Sounds like a conspiracy to me!  Whats up with that?

I am thinking it may be more that with him being owner of the internet cafe, he wasn't as forthcoming as LE wanted him to be, Mike.

Steve owns the Internet Cafe?

That was stated on FOX tonight...have yet to hear a retraction