RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[mehill10]

mehill, if you sign a sworn statement and later it turns out not to be true, it's criminal.

so why  was the DJ  not held and charged for telling the lie about seeing NH at the holday inn

[bendex]

Judge in training Paul v d S whom since thursday is behind bars in Aruba, cannot resist the impression that he is imprisoned to pressure his son Joran.

Rechter-in-opleiding Paul van der S., die sinds donderdag achter Arubaanse tralies zit, kan zich niet aan de indruk ontrekken dat hij gevangen zit om zijn zoon Joran van der S. onder druk te zetten.

Yesterdaynight the magistrate R.Smid had to take a decisicion for if the DA office could detain Paul van der S. for a longer period in relation to his possible involvement in the disapearance of the American Natalee Holloway- The D.A. wanted to retain him for further questioning due to he made different statements about what he knows what happend the night Holloway dissapeared, 4 weeks ago.

Gisteravond moest rechter-commissaris R. Smid een beslissing nemen of het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) Paul van der S. langer mag vasthouden in verband met zijn mogelijke betrokkenheid bij de vermissing van de Amerikaanse Natalee Holloway. Het OM wil Van der S. langer aan de tand voelen, omdat hij verschillende verklaringen zou hebben afgelegd over wat hij weet wat er is gebeurd in de nacht dat Holloway verdween, vier weken geleden.

"It is terrible for him " says his lawyer A. Swaen. The man has been in aruba for 15 years. I Know him proffesionally as a jurist . At the end of this year he would finish his education for Judge. His live depends on it. Van der S. Sr is being just like his son suspected of complice of murder,
murder and abduction with resulting death.

,,Het is vreselijk voor hem'', zegt zij advocaat A. Swaen. ,,De man zit al vijftien jaar op Aruba. Ik ken hem professioneel als jurist. Hij zou aan het einde van dit jaar zijn opleiding tot rechter afronden. Zijn leven hangt hier vanaf.'' Van der S. senior wordt net als zijn zoon verdacht van medeplichtigheid aan moord, doodslag of wederrechtelijke vrijheidsberoving met de dood tot gevolg.

The magistrate has untill today to decide if the detention of Joran and the two Surinam brothers Deepak and Satish can renewed.
Allthough A.de Bie lawyer of Joran van der S. thinks that his client is going to be detained for an other period, even there is no proof at all.
The DA only has shown suggestions or suspicions. There is a moment that it is not reasonable anymore to detain him any further. The fact that someone lied  just once does not mean that he has done it.

De rechter-commissaris heeft tot vandaag de tijd om een beslissing te nemen over verlenging van de detentie van Joran van der S. en de Surinaamse broers Deepak en Satish K. Hoewel A. de Bie, advocaat van Joran van der S. denkt dat zijn cliënt langer vast moet blijven, is er volgens hem geen enkel bewijs. ,,Het OM is alleen nog maar met suggesties en vermoedens gekomen. Er komt een moment dat het niet meer redelijk is om hem langer vast te houden. Het feit dat iemand jokt of ooit een keer gelogen heeft, betekent niet dat hij het heeft gedaan.''

Also R. Oomen lawyer of Deepak K. does not understand why his client is detained for such a long period. I have no clues that there has been commited a crime , says Oomen. Deepak according to his lawyer has declared everything he can declare. The limits/boundries of what is acceptable in state of law has been reached.

Ook R. Oomen, advocaat van Deepak K., begrijpt niet waarom zijn cliënt zolang wordt vastgehouden. ,,Ik heb geen enkele aanwijzing dat er een misdrijf is gepleegd'', zegt Oomen. Deepak verleent volgens zijn advocaat alle medewerking aan het onderzoek. ,,Hij heeft alles verklaard wat hij kan verklaren. De grenzen zijn genaderd van wat in een rechtstaat acceptabel is.''

According to D. Kock lawyer of Sathish, everybody can be involved in this . You feel that they do not know anymore what has happend. We all know nomore then that a girl is been missing.

Volgens D. Kock, raadsman van Deepaks broer Satish, kan iedereen bij deze zaak worden betrokken. ,,Je voelt dat men niet weet wat er is gebeurd. We weten allemaal niet meer dan dat het meisje wordt vermist.''

The magistrate did release Steve C. yesterday. This 26 year old d.j. of a partyboat , did not even know Joran or Satish. Only Deepak K. he met occasionally in the cybercafe where Deepak works.

De rechter-commissaris heeft gisteren wel Steve C. vrijgelaten. Deze 26-jarige dj van een partyboot, kende Joran van der S. en Satish K. niet eens. Alleen Deepak K. had hij wel eens ontmoet in het internetcafé waar Deepak werkte.

According to Deepak en Satish they left Joran van der S. with Holloway on the beach next to the Marriot Hotel, in the night the American girl disapeared. After that they went home. Later van der S called Deepak to notify him he was walking home alone . His house is kilometres distant from the mentioned beach. Later van der S. sent a message sms to Deepak with the text : I am home

Volgens Deepak en Satish hebben zij Joran van der S. met Holloway op het strand naast het Marriott Hotel achtergelaten in de nacht de Amerikaanse verdween. Zij gingen toen naar huis. Later belde Van der S. naar Deepak met de mededeling dat hij alleen naar huis liep. Zijn huis ligt kilometers verwijderd van het bewuste strand. Later stuurde Van der S. nog een sms'je naar Deepak met de tekst: Ik ben thuis.

Artice forwrded by Hannie C.
Article Algemeen Dagblad

My Apologies for my bad english




can find.... it`s is from the AD newspaper

[LilOrphan]

<<I have warned from day one that you have to let the Arubans handle this like they know how.>>


It wasn't pressure from family, U.S. media, U.S. government that caused the police to foul up the initial missing person report filing.

Nor did it cause the police to fail to secure a controlled interview from one of the last people seen with the missing person for six hours before the Holloways reached the Van Der Sloot residence.

And it didn't cause the police to neglect the collection of physical evidence, for nine days, from the last people seen with the missing person, when those people failed to provide a verifiable alibi.

And it didn't cause the police to detain two security guards with no connection to the case.

So I don't see the proof for the presence of Natalee's family, the U.S. media, and the FBI being a malevolent force on the investigation.  Because it appears that Aruban law enforcement's consistent screw-ups - and make no mistake, the handling of PVDS is another massive one - appear to occur independent of who or what is supposedly pressuring it.

What do we know about the head of the polis in that jurisdiction, and of the local government - any info at all?

[Kipster]

If they watched her drown, that would have been what they changed their story to. Hell, they should have concocted that one to begin with if they're responsible for harming her. It would have been the easiest to get out of.

Except they would have to explain why they didn't call for help on their cell phones.

If they drugged her, they would have something to hide. If this drowning thing were true, it seems PVDS would have gotten it out of them and taken a shot at 'accidental death'.

[absolut]

This forum reminds me alot of forums such as Court tv and Websleuths. And I don't beleive it is a good place to read stuff you don't want to see from victims family, or victims friends. I know if I was one of those 2, it would be very hard to read some of the ideas being brought up here.

Well Websleuths fully and courttv to a lesser extent. Are Crime boards with victims rights focus. This is not, this is a news board that is an extention of Tom and Red's News commentary.

[katya]

Well, SC and papa released for now. At least the new judge seemed satisfied with the cased against joren and the other 2 punks. It would appear the the case against the 3 is strong, if 2 different judges have ordered them held.

Those of you in the US better start calling, writing and otherwise making a nuisance out ourself with your elected officials, the FBI and the White House. Tell them we demand justice in this case, which is in the best interest of Aruba as well.  

Joren is guilty in my book, why?

1)Too many lies for no good reason.
2) Statements to BT like "what do you want with your daughter? She is no use to you now"  
3) He never brought Natalee back to the HI. His other bullcrap stories of "left her hysterical on the beach" and "left her sleeping on the beach" are either moronic or point to a woman raped, drugged or killed.

Other than that, the rumors of cell calls and text messages that night point to some type of activity.

If this case collapses and the result is "we don't know what happent the Natalee" or that " she might be kidnapped", that should spell doom for Aruba. That is not the story Aruba wants to tell. It will scare people away for sure.

icey

I don't mean to be argumentative, but if you are concerned about justice, there are countless  cases  of injustice in your own backyard. What are you doing about them?

[cast]

Natalee introduced herself to Joran, chatted with him, invited him to Carlos 'n Charlie's, danced with him there, walked out with him, and apparently voluntarily got in the car with him. I would say she sort of liked him, although of course she couldn't have known him very well after such a short time.

la_cavalière wrote:
Joran couldn't have been THAT much of a jerk that Sunday. Natalee apparently took a liking to him, and everyone says she had great judgment. If she had thought he was an arrogant liar, I doubt she would have spent any time with him.

Hi, la_cav   .  Maybe you missed my previous response because it was on page 50 of the last thread.  I wrote:

We really don't know if Natalee "took a liking to him" or not. How would we know that? For all we know, he saw her and her group leaving the bar and walked out to try to catch her and spend more time with her. We don't know that she spoke to him other than introducing herself earlier that day. And just because you introduce yourself to someone doesn't mean you took a liking to them. It is being polite. When my husband and I were in Vegas, if we were at a table gambling for a while with the same people, we would introduce ourselves or strike up small talk. That didn't mean we wanted to date the people.

I'd also like to add that I don't recall anyone saying she invited him to CnC's or was dancing with him at the bar.  One more thing.  Last night a woman told of her experience when she was unknowingly drugged with a "date rape" drug.  He husband told her that she was walking and talking coherently, yet she had no memory of it.  ***PERHAPS Natalee was drugged when she left the bar with the group of MBers and then Joran asked her if he could ride with her back to HI.  IN THIS THEORETICAL SCENARIO, she would have been willing to get in the car with him, but she would not have been cognizant of her actions.  JUST A THOUGHT  

O'REILLY: All right. Now, Ed, when was the last time you saw Natalee?

ED KISSEL, FRIEND OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think I saw her a little later that night. I had stayed in Carlos 'n Charlie's pretty long, and I saw her dancing with Van Der Sloot later that night.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

O'REILLY: All right. So Natalee obviously knew him, then, was familiar with him. And when you saw him dancing with her, that didn't set off any bells. Was Natalee intoxicated, in your opinion?

KISSEL: I wouldn't say so. We were all having a good time. I'd go so far as to say that, but I wouldn't say intoxicated.

O'REILLY: She was drinking?

KISSEL: Drinking responsibly is what I would say.

O'REILLY: All right.

KISSEL: Along with the rest of us.

O'REILLY: Now, did you see her get into a car with Van Der Sloot and these two other guys?

KISSEL: I did not see her getting in the car. I saw her leaving, looked like with Van Der Sloot. I didn't see her getting in the car. You couldn't really see the road from inside the bar, so that is what I saw.

O'REILLY: But nothing set off any alarm bells for you, Ed? You didn't -- you weren't concerned or anything like that?

KISSEL: No. I wasn't personally concerned about anything. From what I've heard, I heard people talk about him and he sounded like a nice guy. So I didn't think any big deal.

I personally had ridden in the car over there. I made friends with one of the waiters. I'm fluent in Spanish, and you know, I was friends with somebody. And so I was thinking, you know, I rode in a car with somebody, she rides in the car with somebody, no big deal. I didn't think about it.

[waited_too_long]

Sorry I'm not sure how to use PM here. This is what I was posting about.

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:52 am    Post subject:
 
sb.. yeah that's what she was wearing that night... I really don't think the shoes thing would help at all... one of my friends realized today that she had picked up someone else's flip flops thinking they were hers b/c she had lost a pair, but now we think she might have accidently stole them from the passed out guy at the pool who followed us back to the hotel! Whoops! Seriously though, we all lost so much stuff down there, any flip flops, even if they had the freakin' spartan crest on them could have belonged to anyone, not just Nat.

[KackyLacky]

Hi Arubagirl, I hope you feel better and that the recital went well!

Do you know if the Texas group have gone to that pond/dump in Noord yet?

[arrabba]

Sleeks wrote:
SO INSPECTOR WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED???


Well right now (because we havn't found a dead body) I think at some point Joran did leave her alone, and she was kidnapped by someone we have not heard about yet. Maybe she's being held in a personal residence right now against her will?

Inspector - You don't believe she is dead because there is no body.  However you believe she is kidnapped with no kidnapper or ransom note.

She was either kidnapped or ran away by herself. I don't think she ran away. It may not have been the kidnappers plan to ask for ransom, but to sell her into the sex slave trade. Remember what happened to Amy Bradley...

There is no more evidence of kidnapping than there is of murder.

[la_cavalière]

So we do have a witness saying Natalee was dancing with Joran. TY.

ED KISSEL, FRIEND OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think I saw her a little later that night. I had stayed in Carlos 'n Charlie's pretty long, and I saw her dancing with Van Der Sloot later that night.

O'REILLY: Now, did you know Van Der Sloot? Did -- how did you know who he was?

KISSEL: I didn't know him, but I had seen -- he had been around the hotel and the casino with her and with her friends, her closer friends, just hanging out around the hotel for the last few days, two or three days.

[Microcephalic]

Hi, all I'm saying is that no one said she danced with him, to my recollection. And she could have just asked, "What are you doing tonight" as a way to chit chat while they are sitting at the same gambling table. WHat I mean is that I don't think we should assume she was interested in him. There has been so much misinformation out there, and I have been basing my theories (plural - again, I have not made up my mind!  ) on what Dash, Dash's mom, and other parents of kids from the trip have posted. When she left the bar, it was at the same time as a group of MB kids. Dash asked her a question and Natalee replied that she was going back to the HI quote, "with them" and pointed to the group of MB kids. That is one thing I believe happened.

This contradicts what other students have said in an interview.  If she planned to return to Hi with the other students then the three boys basically kidnapped her in front of all of her friends.  Then the kidnap victim is seen by still other students hanging out the window of the kidnap vehilce shouting "Aruba, Aruba".  Sounds reasonable.

[bobntexas]

She'll be back, I'm sure

Are you a reincarnation of a previous poster?

[Ting]

...no one said she danced with him, to my recollection. ..

There was a young man on one of the Fox shows who was interviewed along with the young lady who saw her with someone tall with dark hair.

It was the young man who reported Natalee dancing with Joran at some point earlier in the evening of their last night there.

That is one of the reasons I was so intrigued by the report of the scuffle with the cousin, which took place earlier in the visit.

I would think that he would have mentioned it, if Natalee was not present (don't know that she was or wasn't)

[Anna]

TRIED TO POST THIS IN THE LAST POST It has already been established that we have all made bad judgements as well as done some stupid things as teenagers.   And yes, think it is safe to say.  Everyone or most everyone did the underage thing.

My challenge was to all the posters here villainizing Joran because he was drinking when he was not old enough (he was about two months shy of his 18th birthday). Unless these posters never drank until they hit the legal age, they are hypocrites.

I don't think the point was that he was drinking 2 months before his legal age!  It has been very obvious to most that he was doing this for quite some time.  He could not have been that unknown on the island.  People had to know he was still in HS.  From what we have seen on web pictures his behavior has been the same for a long time.  I don't buy the excuse he was just using a fake ID so we didn't know how old he was.

Drinking establishments and casinos have gone on the record saying they never let anyone in under age.  They did look the other way in this case.  

Am I a hypocrite?  No!  I actually did not drink until legal age, however, I don't see what that has to do with anything.

<<

But more than that, it establishes he was accustomed to being treated in a preferential manner, being above the law so to speak.  Joren could do pretty much anything he pleased on the island.

[la_cavalière]

Film clip of PvdS on Fox: He said something like "I want to go home to my wife." The second part I didn't catch.

[friend of monkeys]

I feel sorry that Dash was upset - I think she's really trying to cope with a horrible situation and she's certainly been a great protector of her friend's reputation.

I think the real problem is that this is not a "Natalee Support Group" - it's a board debating/discussing a crime - and so what Dash was looking for from the discussion and what most of the discussion participants are just at odds.

thank you

IMO Dash is suffering now, her feelings are a little too raw to have any salt poured on them.  My heart goes out to her.

Me too.  Her input here was great.  Its alot of courage to go on tv, and sometimes it makes life intense when everyone sees you for a minute or two and then debates every move/word for days...nevermind all this here for her to handle and worry for NH.  I hope she takes a break and feels better when she comes back.

[writenow]

I don't know if she invited Joran, but I know she told him she was going to CnCs that night.

How do you know she wasn't just answering his question, "What are you all doing tonight?"

If you're going by the "Deepak" emails, remember that 90% of what he said in those was a lie.

And you don't know she walked out with him. He was walking next to her and managed to maneuver her into his friends' car. Her last comments to her friends was that she was going back to the hotel with the MB kids in front of her. Not, I'm going with him (Joran).

Figure it out.

[Scott]

Hi, all I'm saying is that no one said she danced with him, to my recollection.

Actually, her friend Ed, who was at CnC's that night, said in an interview on Bill O'Reilly, that he did see Natalee and Joran dancing together.

[DT]

It makes me so sad Dash, of all people, ............
....Again, those who attacked the kids and their actions while Dash and others were posting here this afternoon, should be ashamed.

Nancy_Drew:
 I am suprised that you who seems to be very concerned about justice would interprete people's opinions that way. I have been on this forum for quite a while & I have not seen anyone attacking the MB kids in general on Natalee in particular! If she did drink, like Joran, went willingly with him, made-out, etc; there is NOTHING in those actions that constitute bad character for an 18 yr old. If she didn't, she would be weird!!!

Without being facetious, I have had opportunity to observe in the last few years that young people from the American South & those from a village in Nunavut generally act the same given similar circumstances.

Dash is off-course very sensitive about this sisnce its so close to home & her reaction is understandable.

Maybe you haven't been reading these forums as much as everyone else, but I've seen people here stating as fact that Natalee was involved in group sex with all three, with no evidence.  This is the sort of absolute bullshit I can't stand.  It attacks the victim and has no evidence for it whatsoever.