RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[natfortplum]

I really dont buy into any theory of an outside party unless Natalies friends in the Casino that night had heard them talking about it.  The way kids are they will talk and brag about a party going on to everyone within shouting distance.  A party would have been something that was known.
Kids dont keep that kind of stuff quiet.

TAZ_MAN -

Natalee DID ask Joran, in the Casino, the following: "We're going to CnC's tonight?  Will you be there?"

Joran responded that he doesn't normally go to CnC's on a Sunday night, that it is dead on a Sunday night.

So, what if this conversation was overheard in the Casino????

Joran also said that he couldn't go to C&C's because he had school he next day...maybe all this was said for someone elses benefit. (maybe Daddy was gambling right beside him)

[Professor]

I will say again, if Joran has ever had a history of hurting animals would be interesting to me.

Well, we don't know about animals, but we know about children....per his mother.

Aruba has a very good Humane Society web page. Someone there must know (if they are talking). But my experience is that people of the humane society are very willing to point the finger, when it comes to animal abuse.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

one thing bugs me tho....WHY wood u kidnap an AMERICAN knowing that ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE IF YOU DID

They wouldnt thats why kidnapping isnt really a logical explanation at this point.

[iquitos]

Joran van der Sloot (JvdS)
Hasibokos.com published an interview conducted with a friend of JvdS last week. After we had contact with Dan Riehl, he told us that he believes he had interviewed the same friend before. Joran’s friend had mostly positive things to say about JvdS, but considereing the fact it’s only one source, we are in doubt now about the Joran’s temperament. This is because according to the article in De Telegraaf, Joran has been seing a psychiatrist for some time now because he is short-tempered. This does not match the previous statement of Joran’s friend who said that she never saw JvdS loose his composure on the tennis court. About Jorans reaction when he would loose a tennis match,  she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behaviour. According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect. Maybe Joran would never loose his temper in public and that why his friend never noted his short temperament. Or maybe he was just doing what his psychiatrist advised him to do in those situations.

[Dallas Also]

Could they have gotten a hotel room somewhere? Perhaps not one on the coast, a less expensive one, kind off the beaten path?

KackyLacky, there is one theory that Joran took Natalee to his detached-from-the-home apartment.  

Problem there is that we need some DNA from his apartment, or we need it to have found it "super-cleaned" (which would then arouse suspicion).

[Professor]

Joran van der Sloot (JvdS)
Hasibokos.com published an interview conducted with a friend of JvdS last week. After we had contact with Dan Riehl, he told us that he believes he had interviewed the same friend before. Joran’s friend had mostly positive things to say about JvdS, but considereing the fact it’s only one source, we are in doubt now about the Joran’s temperament. This is because according to the article in De Telegraaf, Joran has been seing a psychiatrist for some time now because he is short-tempered. This does not match the previous statement of Joran’s friend who said that she never saw JvdS loose his composure on the tennis court. About Jorans reaction when he would loose a tennis match,  she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behaviour. According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect. Maybe Joran would never loose his temper in public and that why his friend never noted his short temperament. Or maybe he was just doing what his psychiatrist advised him to do in those situations.

Narcissists and sociopaths live behind a mask. Their true brutality only comes out when nobody's looking.

[mordred]

....
So you did not even bother to read the timeline?  That explains what happend to her and why?  Are you saying if a girl accepts a ride it means anything more than that and she should be made to disappear for that is just what happened.

Anna,
No need to jump on my back!! I am only reporting what was said by her friend today ( & I posted the link) I am as dumbfounded as everybody else about the facts in this case. If its any consolation to you - this is the very first blog I've ever posted to & I would like to think its out of my concern for a lovely child who I pray to God that she is safe & sound

[nancy_drew]

I'm back...are we being nice? Trashed any teenagers in trauma lately?

I don't remember reading that Natalee asked Joran if he would be at Carlos and Charlies?  Is that new?

A psychiatrist?  Where did that come from?

Interesting.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I'm back...are we being nice? Trashed any teenagers in trauma lately?

I don't remember reading that Natalee asked Joran if he would be at Carlos and Charlies?  Is that new?

A psychiatrist?  Where did that come from?

Interesting.

arubagirl stated she had a good source that indicated that joran was seeing a psychiatrist but she doesnt want to reveal where she heard it.

[iquitos]

Here is the post yet again for those who do not understand how NH came to be in the car with Joren...........
....... Because of this, I do not believe she knew she would be going anywhere but a fairly short distance down to the hotel. Her plans changed in the blink of an eye, and she was gone . . .“
 ...................
So for those in love with the theory of a pretty girl being just so hot to trot for Joren, while you might really enjoy this scenario it is not likely what happened at all.  .

Anna,
With all due respect, Natalle by most accounts was hanging out with Joran since 9:30 that night. At least thats what was reported by the 'Birmingham News' today. So it is probable that she did establish enough of a rapport to feel she could trust him & accept a ride with him.

<<

So you did not even bother to read the timeline?  No, she left him at the casino and went to C&C with her friends and NOT Joren where he said no one went on Sunday and she did NOT expect to see him there.

Yes, it is possible she could have accepted a ride with him back to HI just where she told her friend she was going but the fact is she never arrived. there.  Not ever.  And there is absolutely nothing to support this theory that she wanted anything more from him that a ride to the HI but so many have contended otherwise.

So what if she accepted a ride with him?  That explains what happend to her and why?  Are you saying if a girl accepts a ride it means anything more than that and she should be made to disappear for that is just what happened.

 that she accepted a ride with him means she accepted a ride with him. we have no basis for thinking she did not.  so if we want something sinister we will have to look elsewhere.  Accepting the ride it is not.  Not arriving at her destination is.

[Dallas Also]

what about a private plane?  could band members leave easily enuf without normal procedures?

candygirl, arubagirl could answer this but she signed off for the night.  Can you maybe PM her with this question?  Would be good to know the answer.

[TTownMike]

one thing bugs me tho....WHY wood u kidnap an AMERICAN knowing that ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE IF YOU DID

They wouldnt thats why kidnapping isnt really a logical explanation at this point.

BNut then again, no one expected the tenacity of the Twittys and the overwhelming response that Natalee has inspired!

[WonderWoman]

I know the Croes name is popular but....

The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm's trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. ""Yes, we are involved with that bank"," says Croes. ""We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don't know anything of their financial accounts"." (70)

Hendrik Croes – a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm – is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

Paolo Cuntrera visited the island regularly despite his expulsion in 1988. The government opposed his legal actions for re-admittance. But Hendrik Croes has to admit the procedures were not stainless. A blundering government lawyer, an official who signed a residence permit 'by mistake', meant that "de facto" Paolo Cuntrera was able to circulate freely on the island.

According to Canadian police reports, in 1978, Pasquale Cuntrera owned the Holiday Inn Casino – although the registers indicated otherwise. ""At the start of 1980s the Cuntrera's were often at the Holiday Inn casino"," says a croupier. ""In 1989 they were there again, although they were ostensibly thrown of the island"."

[luna]

I'm not sure if the Aruban government can charge Joran with the statutory rape of the 13-year old East Asian girl he was with, or if the girl, or her parents would have to be willing to come forward and be willing to testify in order for the case to proceed.

Scott...what is the source of info re stautory rape.  Do you know that happened for sure, or just speculating?

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000796.html

Joran dated an eastern Asian girl who could not have been any older than 13, a 7th grader, during the 2004/2005 school year, and their relationship was apparently on the down-low, being inappropriate, apparently, in Aruba, the Netherlands, or pretty much anywhere else in the civilized western world. Her mother discovered the relationship early in March and forced them to break up.

Article 245 of the Penal Code
A person who, out of wedlock, with a person who has reached the age of twelve (12) but not yet sixteen (16), performs indecent acts comprising or including sexual penetration of the body is liable to a term of imprisonment of not more than eight years or a fine of the fifth category.

Thanks for the info, but that doesn't answer my question.

Do you know he commited sexual penetration?  

A 17 yr old dating a 13 yr old is certainly not unheard of....and saying it is inappropriate in the civilized western world (what about the civilized eastern world?).....is a bit extreme.

Unless he was charged and convicted of statutory rape, this is, once again, stretching it IMHO.

[nancy_drew]

I'm back...are we being nice? Trashed any teenagers in trauma lately?

I don't remember reading that Natalee asked Joran if he would be at Carlos and Charlies?  Is that new?

A psychiatrist?  Where did that come from?

Interesting.

arubagirl stated she had a good source that indicated that joran was seeing a psychiatrist but she doesnt want to reveal where she heard it.

Since psychiatrists normally hand out meds, and psychologists normally do therapy, I wonder which it is, and for what?  If it's true. Which who knows with all the gossip going around.

[iquitos]

Joran van der Sloot (JvdS)
Hasibokos.com published an interview conducted with a friend of JvdS last week. After we had contact with Dan Riehl, he told us that he believes he had interviewed the same friend before. Joran’s friend had mostly positive things to say about JvdS, but considereing the fact it’s only one source, we are in doubt now about the Joran’s temperament. This is because according to the article in De Telegraaf, Joran has been seing a psychiatrist for some time now because he is short-tempered. This does not match the previous statement of Joran’s friend who said that she never saw JvdS loose his composure on the tennis court. About Jorans reaction when he would loose a tennis match,  she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behaviour. According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect. Maybe Joran would never loose his temper in public and that why his friend never noted his short temperament. Or maybe he was just doing what his psychiatrist advised him to do in those situations.

Narcissists and sociopaths live behind a mask. Their true brutality only comes out when nobody's looking.

prof:  you seem to know them so well.  this is the second rendtion of this discussion that i can remember.

[Dallas Also]

Ok, the party is on a yacht.  Someone Joran met at the Casino.  People who cam into town for the Soul Festival.

I LIKE this theory.  Arubagirl, could this occur?  Were there yachts in town for the Soul Festival?

If the party is on the yacht, and something bad happened, we might have a reason for them to stay quiet.

One possiblity is that is was pure accident, but the Yacht owner is someone powerful enough--underworld for example--not to want anyone looking at their boat too closely.  So they will take care of the body and the boys will be quiet or families will pay.

Hence the wall of silence.



Second, someone one the yacht wants Nat--not the intention of the boys--but it happens--and the threat is the same.  Stay quiet or she dies and you and your families will pay.

Sounds like a bad movie plot- but a yacht leaving before she is missing would not be checked too closely I imagine.

\

Another K in Texas, these are both good.  In both cases, the reason for silence is due to threats of bodily harm, etc.  That is one of the few reasons that would work for all three boys.  Otherwise, the brothers would have sung the truth very quickly, as soon as they found out there was a missing-person situation.

[HannieC]

Professor wrote:

iquitos wrote:
Joran van der Sloot (JvdS)
Hasibokos.com published an interview conducted with a friend of JvdS last week. After we had contact with Dan Riehl, he told us that he believes he had interviewed the same friend before. Joran’s friend had mostly positive things to say about JvdS, but considereing the fact it’s only one source, we are in doubt now about the Joran’s temperament. This is because according to the article in De Telegraaf, Joran has been seing a psychiatrist for some time now because he is short-tempered. This does not match the previous statement of Joran’s friend who said that she never saw JvdS loose his composure on the tennis court. About Jorans reaction when he would loose a tennis match, she said that Joran would be very disappointed as anyone would be, but he would never burst out and start screaming or show violent behaviour. According to Joran’s friend at those times Joran would just pull himself back a spend time by himself and reflect. Maybe Joran would never loose his temper in public and that why his friend never noted his short temperament. Or maybe he was just doing what his psychiatrist advised him to do in those situations.


Narcissists and sociopaths live behind a mask.

Their true brutality only comes out when nobody's looking


Professor come on....You seem so sure!! Where you there and did you have more insite than we are?? Don`t think so... You are 'examen; people you don`t even know....come on pleeezzz....

It`s human to slemder people I guess..?? But the Fact of the matter is we don`t kn ow Joran or the brothers or the other 'supposed'suspects! We can`t judge by the way they dress i thought or the pictures we`ve seen...
Sorry i think that is a little bit narrow minded but hey ......just my opinion

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I'm back...are we being nice? Trashed any teenagers in trauma lately?

I don't remember reading that Natalee asked Joran if he would be at Carlos and Charlies?  Is that new?

A psychiatrist?  Where did that come from?

Interesting.

arubagirl stated she had a good source that indicated that joran was seeing a psychiatrist but she doesnt want to reveal where she heard it.

Since psychiatrists normally hand out meds, and psychologists normally do therapy, I wonder which it is, and for what?  If it's true. Which who knows with all the gossip going around.

The doctors there might have less defined rolls than they do in the USA.  Its not unlikely that a Psychiatrist assume the role of therapist there.  Its something that probably be only admitted by his parents if they have the same privacy issues there as they do in america.  Just knowing he was in therapy causes minds to take off in different directions regarding possibilities.

[Dallas Also]

I really dont buy into any theory of an outside party unless Natalies friends in the Casino that night had heard them talking about it.  The way kids are they will talk and brag about a party going on to everyone within shouting distance.  A party would have been something that was known.
Kids dont keep that kind of stuff quiet.

TAZ_MAN -

Natalee DID ask Joran, in the Casino, the following: "We're going to CnC's tonight?  Will you be there?"

Joran responded that he doesn't normally go to CnC's on a Sunday night, that it is dead on a Sunday night.


So, what if this conversation was overheard in the Casino????

I dont understand what this question has to do with another party going on that night.  Can you be more specific.

Sorry I wasn't clear, TAZ_MAN.  This is for a separate theory that someone overheard their plans and stalked them.  This is not part of the underground-party theory.  But, the stalker would have had to stay unseen until after Joran said goodnight to Natalee and left her on the beach.