RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[TTownMike]

If you think PVDS didn't know Natalee was missing do you think he just told the Twittys that Joran was at the casino to stall the Twittys so he would have time to talk to Joran since he knew Joran was actually at home?  This would have given him time to ask Joran what all of this was about..

You very posibly jes answered your own question![/quote]

:::DING DING DING:::: Go Belle!!![/quote]

 What a missed opportunity that night was! If the LE on the scene would have been more agressive they could have questioned and taken a full statement from Joren that night. right in front of their eyes they have 2 of the 3 people who were last seen with a missing girl. and the story that they tell is raising such suspicion with the girl's family that they almost come to blows and have to be seperated.[/quote]
But at the time there was the tendancy to want to believe "the son of a prominant gov'ment official" (ie judge wannabe)!

[may]

Seems like they know the Dutch law "no body -- no crime".  Just keep quite and hope no body is found.  Or if they know Natalee is off the island they just hope no one talks.

I just can't believe the boys and VDSloots aren't bending over backward to tell all they know if they know that they didn't harm Natalee.  The boys will serve jail time for lying but at least they are alive.

Has anyone searched all the hotel rooms?

I am wondering if anyone has searched the house next door? Are the neighbors still away?


May

[Twelve Monkeys]

Mark Fuhrman?? You got to be kidding me??


Wasn`t he spit out 11 years ago b/c he lied on the stand?? Oeps....



So what. Maybe he knows a liar when he hears one.

[TTownMike]

Just rambling, but mostly thinking of the possibility that Natalee was in Joran's room for a time -- and for a time period longer than we might've contemplated.

I had those thoughts too...with all the lack of supervision that apparently went on IMO...but the thought is too much to bear so I put her back on the beach

If thet were true, they woulda (shoulda) gotten trace evidence from there when they searhed the place 4 months later! (or sumpin lack dat!)

[HannieC]

You are right soccerdad...As far as we Know he lied!!

Ok but does that make him a murderer? I don`t think so. I think what people forget is......it`s a kid he`s 17 years old. If we think that all lyers are murderers than we have I think minimal 1/3 of the universe to accuse! I don`t understand why nobody or at least the people in general here, not everybody thank god, can believe that somebody can lie if you are in the same situation as he is in the beginning then...When you start a lie ususally it`s getting worse we al now that...
But hey if he`s guilty then he have to pay for it absolutly your damn right about it!!

[writenow]

I think Beth felt that she had been there,,,can't remember exactly what she said :( [/b]

She said she felt Natalee's presence there, I believe.

[natfortplum]

While ruminating on the mystery of why Paulus can't recall waking Joran for school on Monday morning, I flashed on a fragment of something from another crime.

The unsolved case of missing Kristen Smart in San Luis Obispo, CA, has been long thought to have been perpetrated by a fellow college student she met at a party the last night she was seen alive.

It took a while to ID this fellow, Paul Flores, I think his name is (might be wrong on that), but when they did, they took dogs to his dorm room and a cadaver dog alerted on the underside of the mattress of his bed.  Many years later, they still don't have evidence enough to go after him.  

Wasn't there also a guy who killed a little boy selling candy door-to-door and hid the boy's body in his mattress and not even his mother knew?

So, I'm thinking it's possible the three are still lying as far as the Marriott Beach drop-off.  Or, alternatively, possibly they were on the beach there and Joran wanted to take Nat to his "apartment" - alive and/or drugged.  Couldn't he have called a taxi to take them there--and he smuggled her in without Daddy knowing?  Maybe one of the 3AM ATM withdrawals related to this.

Then "something bad happened" there--or who knows, maybe even Joran tied her up and gagged her or something.  Not knowing Daddy's habits as far as actually coming out to the garage and coming into Joran's space, I wonder if that was even a possibility.

Say it was, and he managed to keep Natalee there, alive, drugged or dead, and went about his business, going to school "as normal" (of course, if one is guilty of *something bad*, it's more imperative than ever to "act normal," which includes going to school) and leaving her there during some daytime hours.

(We don't really know whether Joran's a bit of a kinky dude or not.)  Mom wouldn't be home until Wednesday, Daddy would be at work--Joran may then have hurried home and done whatever he needed to do to entertain his captive-- or worse.

From that point forward, the rest of Monday afternoon and evening, he would've been free to take care of any loose ends that needed taking care of, relatively unseen--except perhaps for another partner in crime that has not yet been revealed.  (You know, like monkey-loving neighbors who took a hike about that time.)

This could even play into the "kidnapping" theory, if there is a crime syndicate type person known to Joran who would "take care" of the rest of the enterprise, promising him some money (or he and Daddy some money) as their share of any ransom that might be paid.

I still think it's possible that Joran, if he were of a mind to, could've ascertained Natalee's family info (i.e, last name Twitty of step father) earlier in the day or week, depending on the story we believe.  Even if it was as late as 9:30PM that Sunday night, my thinking is that Deepak is the computer whiz and Internet pro--perhaps he knows a little something about hacking and ID theft, things like that, without ever needing to *use* those skills.  

By midnight at Carlos & Charlie's, they and their higher-up criminal-type (casino dweller, whatever) will have run a Dun & Bradstreet on Nat's family and would have *a plan*.

Just rambling, but mostly thinking of the possibility that Natalee was in Joran's room for a time -- and for a time period longer than we might've contemplated.

Was there a ATM withdrawal frim Joran that night? havent heard of this.

[KerinTX]

If you think PVDS didn't know Natalee was missing do you think he just told the Twittys that Joran was at the casino to stall the Twittys so he would have time to talk to Joran since he knew Joran was actually at home?  This would have given him time to ask Joran what all of this was about..

You very posibly jes answered your own question![/quote]

:::DING DING DING:::: Go Belle!!![/quote]

 What a missed opportunity that night was! If the LE on the scene would have been more agressive they could have questioned and taken a full statement from Joren that night. right in front of their eyes they have 2 of the 3 people who were last seen with a missing girl. and the story that they tell is raising such suspicion with the girl's family that they almost come to blows and have to be seperated.[/quote]

exactly. In LE it is referred to as the "Golden Hour". Normally that would be the first hour of an interrogation and in that hour LE normally gets aconfession. BUT when things were handled like this (not placing blame on either party) then what happened was The Twittys gave their hand up to the VDS's and essentially the Goden Hour was lost because I can assure you that the second LE left the VDS driveway, Dad was working on Joran and the "story".

[Itawamba]

I just can't imagine where he could've put Natalee's body if she died at Marriott Beach, without any trace of her being found yet.  There had to be a boat involved, if she were put into the ocean, and we have no evidence of that possibility.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

writenow wrote:

I'm sure the Netherlands won't have any problem allowing him to attend their universities. He'll be free to prey on unsuspecting girls again, but I think it's more acceptable there.

But now Daddy may be looking for a new line of work. Of course, if the Hak. website is to be believed, the justice department in Holland wasn't thrilled with his work and was looking for a reason to get rid of him. He may have to go back to teaching. Nothing like working for years to have a career go down the drain.

But if they move back to Holland I feel sorry for Valentijn and his little American girlfriend Natalie. That'll be the end of their cute little love story. It's really kinda sad.

There's something kinda weird. Reports out of Holland say Papa v.d.Sloot has been in Aruba 17 years, but the mother and kids have been there 10 years (what both Val. & Joran's websites said). For 7 years Paul was living alone on the island? Does Lorenzo factor in anywhere here?

And you know why writenow? Because we don`t judge people by there outfit or what we think we know what they must be!! We are by a long shot not so judgemental...We believe in evidence hard evidence and we don`t try to ruin peoples lives with speculations... I`m sorry but maybe that`s why so much american people come to visit us and like our attitide and that of the antillens and aruba... thought about that?  

Actually, what I've found on this board lately is that the Dutch, either ex-pat or native, are fiercely defending their own -- Joran, his dad & the Dutch authorities in Aruba -- because it somehow reflects on their national identity and pride. And those same people have been attacking a grieving family, a missing girl and her friends, desperately trying to find ways that a Dutch national would not be responsible for kidnapping an American. So I think you are VERY judgmental, you just aren't when it comes to your own kind.

Actually its not just the Dutch attacking people, earlier today they ran off one of Natalies friends because they kept telling her she was wrong for thinking joran was responsible.  Alot of the attackers were americans.

[TTownMike]

writenow wrote:

I'm sure the Netherlands won't have any problem allowing him to attend their universities. He'll be free to prey on unsuspecting girls again, but I think it's more acceptable there.

But now Daddy may be looking for a new line of work. Of course, if the Hak. website is to be believed, the justice department in Holland wasn't thrilled with his work and was looking for a reason to get rid of him. He may have to go back to teaching. Nothing like working for years to have a career go down the drain.

But if they move back to Holland I feel sorry for Valentijn and his little American girlfriend Natalie. That'll be the end of their cute little love story. It's really kinda sad.

There's something kinda weird. Reports out of Holland say Papa v.d.Sloot has been in Aruba 17 years, but the mother and kids have been there 10 years (what both Val. & Joran's websites said). For 7 years Paul was living alone on the island? Does Lorenzo factor in anywhere here?

And you know why writenow? Because we don`t judge people by there outfit or what we think we know what they must be!! We are by a long shot not so judgemental...We believe in evidence hard evidence and we don`t try to ruin peoples lives with speculations... I`m sorry but maybe that`s why so much american people come to visit us and like our attitide and that of the antillens and aruba... thought about that?  

Actually, what I've found on this board lately is that the Dutch, either ex-pat or native, are fiercely defending their own -- Joran, his dad & the Dutch authorities in Aruba -- because it somehow reflects on their national identity and pride. And those same people have been attacking a grieving family, a missing girl and her friends, desperately trying to find ways that a Dutch national would not be responsible for kidnapping an American. So I think you are VERY judgmental, you just aren't when it comes to your own kind.

TOUCHE'!  (Sotaspeak!)

[LouLou]

So, I'm thinking it's possible the three are still lying as far as the Marriott Beach drop-off.  Or, alternatively, possibly they were on the beach there and Joran wanted to take Nat to his "apartment" - alive and/or drugged.  Couldn't he have called a taxi to take them there--and he smuggled her in without Daddy knowing?  Maybe one of the 3AM ATM withdrawals related to this.
[snipped]
Say it was, and he managed to keep Natalee there, alive, drugged or dead, and went about his business, going to school "as normal" (of course, if one is guilty of *something bad*, it's more imperative than ever to "act normal," which includes going to school) and leaving her there during some daytime hours.
[snipped]
From that point forward, the rest of Monday afternoon and evening, he would've been free to take care of any loose ends that needed taking care of, relatively unseen--except perhaps for another partner in crime that has not yet been revealed.  (You know, like monkey-loving neighbors who took a hike about that time.)
[snipped]

Just rambling, but mostly thinking of the possibility that Natalee was in Joran's room for a time -- and for a time period longer than we might've contemplated.

[/size]

I think it is entirely logical that she was dropped off at the VDS house (not the beach).  Why would he want to wallow in the sticks and bugs and sand with his new sweetheart if he had his own place?

It is entirely possible that when the MB crowd confronted the VDS clan that early morning she was in his room or hidden on the property.  There is just not enough time in any of the many permutations of the timeline for amaturers to effectively dispose of the body.  Waiting a day or two, then taking her to a spot you know has ALREADY been searched would work great.

As far as the Father not remembering waking him up...well if he was already up and say in the shower.  NO need to awaken him.  Pulling an all nighter is easy at 18.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I just can't imagine where he could've put Natalee's body if she died at Marriott Beach, without any trace of her being found yet.  There had to be a boat involved, if she were put into the ocean, and we have no evidence of that possibility.

most of the information given was false and one of natalies classmates said if she was on that beach someone would have seen her because theres alot of people out on the beach late at night.  She probably was never anywhere near mariott beach.  They should look everywhere Joran hasnt mentioned.

[Twelve Monkeys]

You are right soccerdad...As far as we Know he lied!!

Ok but does that make him a murderer? I don`t think so. I think what people forget is......it`s a kid he`s 17 years old. If we think that all lyers are murderers...snip

Are you kidding us?

They lied about a person that is M I S S I N G!! not about stealing cookies for goodness sake.

[Itawamba]

The two ATM withdrawals between 3AM and 3:45AM on Monday morning were said to have been made by Paul vdS, but we haven't heard any confirmation that the cameras ID'ed the card-user as Paul.  We don't know that it wasn't Joran.

[TTownMike]

You are right soccerdad...As far as we Know he lied!!

Ok but does that make him a murderer? I don`t think so. I think what people forget is......it`s a kid he`s 17 years old. If we think that all lyers are murderers than we have I think minimal 1/3 of the universe to accuse! I don`t understand why nobody or at least the people in general here, not everybody thank god, can believe that somebody can lie if you are in the same situation as he is in the beginning then...When you start a lie ususally it`s getting worse we al now that...
But hey if he`s guilty then he have to pay for it absolutly your damn right about it!!

Hannie, do you think "SONNY BOY" is guilty of anything at all? If so, what exactly!

[~TAZ_MAN~]

writenow,

I dont disagree with one word youre saying but earlier today anybody that suspects Joran has been accused of being part of a lynch mob.

[dl3fan]

The two ATM withdrawals between 3AM and 3:45AM on Monday morning were said to have been made by Paul vdS, but we haven't heard any confirmation that the cameras ID'ed the card-user as Paul.  We don't know that it wasn't Joran.

If Joran made the atm withdrawals maybe it was to get $$$ to pay off someone to dispose of the body.   Just a thought.

[KerinTX]

You are right soccerdad...As far as we Know he lied!!

Ok but does that make him a murderer? I don`t think so. I think what people forget is......it`s a kid he`s 17 years old. If we think that all lyers are murderers...snip

Are you kidding us?

They lied about a person that is M I S S I N G!! not about stealing cookies for goodness sake.

I am going to have to strongly agree with that. There ARE different "degrees" of lies and WHOA...in light of what was happening...JORAN YOU TOLD A WHOPPER!!! And whereas that may not make him automatically a murderer, it DOES say he had SOMETHING TO HIDE!!!!!!

[HannieC]

writenow wrote:

Actually, what I've found on this board lately is that the Dutch, either ex-pat or native, are fiercely defending their own -- Joran, his dad & the Dutch authorities in Aruba -- because it somehow reflects on their national identity and pride. And those same people have been attacking a grieving family, a missing girl and her friends, desperately trying to find ways that a Dutch national would not be responsible for kidnapping an American. So I think you are VERY judgmental, you just aren't when it comes to your own kind.

I could say the same about you writenow...  But you know I don`t
I have a hard time sleeping b/c I `m really emotional about this and my heart goes out to natalee`s mom and family, so it`s just another assumption of you and you`re again wrong.
But why is everybody who has a different opinion here then the most of you, playing it this way? I can`t understand I said if he`s guilty or they are guilty with whatever happend with natalee, Pay clear and simple
But I accept till now that neither of us have any solid evidence that he did something else than lie, what I can understand under this circumstances sorry.. JMHO.