RBN #28 6/26/05 Sunday Evening

[sb]

Real quick before I check out, a couple of things.

1. Whatever has happened here is definitely OUT OF THE BOX. To solve it will require out-of-the-box thinking.

2. The FBI needs to be brought in to do the 2 things they do best: Forensics, and Interviews. Everyone who could have been out on that Marriott Beach and who worked in those hotels needs a friendly knock on the door or a phone call.

3. (I want to be as delicate as I can be here) Natalee's "inner circle" of friends (I DON'T MEAN DASH) are in denial about this thing. I will post tomorrow a theory I have but I think they are trying to make themselves believe that Joran was NOT stalking Nat when in fact he was...all along.

4. We have not heard the last of Papa VDS, and he has not seen the last of the jail. There ain't any such thing as "double jeopardy" over there, if they get the right evidence it's back to the slam for him. Fast. And I believe he is intimately involved (no pun intended) in the whole thing. More on that angle later.


Night all. Pray for Natalee and her family.

[AZLady]

FOX reported the three were brought together in a room and questioned, and this was the example they used to show how the questioning was done.

That is odd.  Especially since Satish was not the one who received the text message.  It was Deepak who received the text message, right?  Why would Joran agree to change his story that quickly?

You know, if you or I were in a room with police investigators asking us about our movements, we would take it very seriously and attempt to be precise and honest, as best we could remember.  I have the impression that these guys are making this up as they go, being as vague as possible, and trying to say what they think others want them to say.  And my expertise at this technique is my experience raising teenagers and teaching them for the past 25 years!  

[Tiptoes]

Yeah, the conspiracy theories are getting thicker than smoke.  The reality is most likely that this is just what it appears to be--a spoiled kid and his self-concerned buddies who raped a tourist.  If Nat is anything like her mother, she fought them off, and they silenced her.  I'm sure that explains Joran's "what do you want me to do about it?" attitude.  Joran's sense of entitlement would lead in that direction.

That's probably true. By the sound of the attorney, though, it sounds like the Kalpoe brothers were home too soon for them to have been involved.

Thats what attorneys are supposed to say.  They could have been home but if they dropped Nat and Joran off at 1:30 or so why did it take them an hour to get home.  There is nothing in this time frame.

I think they left C&C at 1:30.  Not dropped off at 1:30.  Their timeline is much better that Joran's

 "Holloway, from the Birmingham, Alabama, suburb of Mountain Brook, was last seen about 1:30 a.m. May 30 as she left a nightclub with Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers."

[jane]

I agree that Joran was stalking Natalee all along, and I think the reason the crime isn't making sense is because we may be dealing with a group who has their own sub-culture.

[Dallas Also]

sb mentioned FBI Forensics work.  According to foxnews.com, the FBI reduced staff for the case this weekend, from 7 down to 3.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

FOX reported the three were brought together in a room and questioned, and this was the example they used to show how the questioning was done.

That is odd.  Especially since Satish was not the one who received the text message.  It was Deepak who received the text message, right?  Why would Joran agree to change his story that quickly?

Because Joran is a liar.  And we really dont know for sure if there was a text message thats just what they claim was the means of communication.

[AZLady]

Real quick before I check out, a couple of things.

1. Whatever has happened here is definitely OUT OF THE BOX. To solve it will require out-of-the-box thinking.

2. The FBI needs to be brought in to do the 2 things they do best: Forensics, and Interviews. Everyone who could have been out on that Marriott Beach and who worked in those hotels needs a friendly knock on the door or a phone call.

3. (I want to be as delicate as I can be here) Natalee's "inner circle" of friends (I DON'T MEAN DASH) are in denial about this thing. I will post tomorrow a theory I have but I think they are trying to make themselves believe that Joran was NOT stalking Nat when in fact he was...all along.

4. We have not heard the last of Papa VDS, and he has not seen the last of the jail. There ain't any such thing as "double jeopardy" over there, if they get the right evidence it's back to the slam for him. Fast. And I believe he is intimately involved (no pun intended) in the whole thing. More on that angle later.


Night all. Pray for Natalee and her family.

I wish the FBI could actually get into this case.  The results would be strikingly different.  I agree--Joran was stalking Natalee.  Everything points to that.  I agree about Papa VDS, too.  The minute Joran and Nat arrived at his home, he was in the thick of it.  We'll need lots of prayers to ever have any justice here, though.

[Dallas Also]

As found at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160654,00.html

"Separately Friday, a source familiar with the investigation told FOX the FBI only has three agents in Aruba working on the case, down from seven. The source, who requested anonymity, said the team has been reduced because there is not much to investigate now that arrests have been made."

[~TAZ_MAN~]

FOX reported the three were brought together in a room and questioned, and this was the example they used to show how the questioning was done.

That is odd.  Especially since Satish was not the one who received the text message.  It was Deepak who received the text message, right?  Why would Joran agree to change his story that quickly?

You know, if you or I were in a room with police investigators asking us about our movements, we would take it very seriously and attempt to be precise and honest, as best we could remember.  I have the impression that these guys are making this up as they go, being as vague as possible, and trying to say what they think others want them to say.  And my expertise at this technique is my experience raising teenagers and teaching them for the past 25 years!  

'


You definitely have the experience in dealing with human nature and how they react in certain situations.  This is what this is all about, knowing what honest people do in this situation and what they dont.

[Tiptoes]

FOX reported the three were brought together in a room and questioned, and this was the example they used to show how the questioning was done.

That is odd.  Especially since Satish was not the one who received the text message.  It was Deepak who received the text message, right?  Why would Joran agree to change his story that quickly?

You know, if you or I were in a room with police investigators asking us about our movements, we would take it very seriously and attempt to be precise and honest, as best we could remember.  I have the impression that these guys are making this up as they go, being as vague as possible, and trying to say what they think others want them to say.  And my expertise at this technique is my experience raising teenagers and teaching them for the past 25 years!  

Without the balance of that conversation, it's truly hard to say.  I really think Joran's bouncing testimony is so telling that he is making it up as he goes along.  I think Satich must have fainted.  I hear nothing from him at all.  He may be leaning pretty hard on his older brother

[rogers]

I'm wondering if we do not have too narrow a focus here.  The media and consequently this forum has concentrated on Joran and the brothers.

If we step back and look at this from the big picture we will see:

In Aruba there are now 3 missing persons: Natalee, Sergio Gomez, other passenger on Natalee's flight.

Unusually large FBI contengent

1 "Columbian style" murder.

3 young kids in jail withstanding Dutch interigation methods.

Does this change the picture?

[Dallas Also]

You know, if you or I were in a room with police investigators asking us about our movements, we would take it very seriously and attempt to be precise and honest, as best we could remember.  I have the impression that these guys are making this up as they go, being as vague as possible, and trying to say what they think others want them to say.  And my expertise at this technique is my experience raising teenagers and teaching them for the past 25 years!  

'


You definitely have the experience in dealing with human nature and how they react in certain situations.  This is what this is all about, knowing what honest people do in this situation and what they dont.

Beth Holloway Twitty, with her work with kids, would also have that type of heightened read on people.

[Tiptoes]

FOX reported the three were brought together in a room and questioned, and this was the example they used to show how the questioning was done.

That is odd.  Especially since Satish was not the one who received the text message.  It was Deepak who received the text message, right?  Why would Joran agree to change his story that quickly?

Because Joran is a liar.  And we really dont know for sure if there was a text message thats just what they claim was the means of communication.

I agree.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I wish the FBI could actually get into this case.  The results would be strikingly different.  I agree--Joran was stalking Natalee.  Everything points to that.  I agree about Papa VDS, too.  The minute Joran and Nat arrived at his home, he was in the thick of it.  We'll need lots of prayers to ever have any justice here, though.

the FBI sat in on the interrogations and were confident that the Aruban authorities were asking all the right questions and moving in the right direction.  However, that initial smoke screen regarding the 2 guards caused very valuable time to be lost.  I just hope that was gods will and possible more information was revealed by them in the time they roamed free.

[AZLady]

I'm wondering if we do not have too narrow a focus here.  The media and consequently this forum has concentrated on Joran and the brothers.

If we step back and look at this from the big picture we will see:

In Aruba there are now 3 missing persons: Natalee, Sergio Gomez, other passenger on Natalee's flight.

Unusually large FBI contengent

1 "Columbian style" murder.

3 young kids in jail withstanding Dutch interigation methods.

Does this change the picture?

I see where you are going, but until something disproves the "most likely" scenario, I hesitate to entertain more complex theories.  We don't have enough information or access to the forensic evidence to make it logical to push this beyond the "most likely" scenario yet.  More importantly, I don't see law enforcement or the FBI pushing it, either.  They are still looking on the island for a body.  That's significant.

[Tiptoes]

I'm wondering if we do not have too narrow a focus here.  The media and consequently this forum has concentrated on Joran and the brothers.

If we step back and look at this from the big picture we will see:

In Aruba there are now 3 missing persons: Natalee, Sergio Gomez, other passenger on Natalee's flight.

Unusually large FBI contengent

1 "Columbian style" murder.

3 young kids in jail withstanding Dutch interigation methods.

Does this change the picture?

"Missing man has been identified as Sergio Gomez. This case and the dead, partially decapitaed, body found at Sabana are not believed to be related to the Natalee Holloway case."

[~TAZ_MAN~]

I'm wondering if we do not have too narrow a focus here.  The media and consequently this forum has concentrated on Joran and the brothers.

If we step back and look at this from the big picture we will see:

In Aruba there are now 3 missing persons: Natalee, Sergio Gomez, other passenger on Natalee's flight.

Unusually large FBI contengent

1 "Columbian style" murder.

3 young kids in jail withstanding Dutch interigation methods.

Does this change the picture?

You have a 3 people who saw Natalie last who have continually changed their stories.  Thats a very strong indicator of foul play and the suspects in question are the mostly likely cause of that foul play.

If investigators looked in another direction with just that information they would be wasting everyones time.

[Dallas Also]

Until there is a body, can it hurt to lay out scenarios where Natalee might still be alive?

I've got a pretty strong one that I'm trying to form, that will fit the known evidence.

[sb]

I agree that Joran was stalking Natalee all along, and I think the reason the crime isn't making sense is because we may be dealing with a group who has their own sub-culture.

jane, that whole island is a sub-culture unto itself. It is so far outside our way of thinking that we don't know how to come to grips with it. What has happened, I believe, is way out past our normal thinking because we are not used to the level of corruption and underworld crime that is their way of life.

VERY briefly, I believe that Natalee has been kidnapped by any one of 3 or 4 different possible parties and may well be alive.

[AZLady]

Until there is a body, can it hurt to lay out scenarios where Natalee might still be alive?

I've got a pretty strong one that I'm trying to form, that will fit the known evidence.

Of course it can't hurt.  I think it might even be possible.  But, the only problem is that some pretty big players are most likely involved in that scenario, and I know for sure the FBI, DEA, and Aruban authorities will not allow the cap to be pulled on that powderkeg.