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Author Topic: RBN #29 6/27/05 Monday  (Read 238638 times)
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gagirl
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« Reply #100 on: June 27, 2005, 10:24:38 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Gerben, Can Aruban LE appeal?


Yes the DA can make an appeal.


Thanks,

I wonder if they will?[/quote]

Yesterday it was stated on Fox that the prosecutors had already filed an emergency appeal regarding the release of PVDS.
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DivaToo
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« Reply #101 on: June 27, 2005, 10:25:32 AM »

Can anyone confirm the news snippet I heard before my hubby changed it off of the news that The Texas Search group said "The family can only hope for closure at this point" I think this was Sat or Sunday, and hubby won't have the news on, he said its depressing him..... Please confirm any statement s made by the TES group TYIA
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Praying for Natalee's safe return & comfort for her family
UGAmom
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« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:01 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "iquitos"
How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.


On FOX, one of their forensic people said that Laci appeared after the water warmed up and she floated to the top.  Also, that she was in a bay.  He didn't hold much hope that if Natalee was in the ocean she would come to shore after all this time.  Ocean currents and all being involved.
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Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.  ~
iquitos
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« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:24 AM »

Quote from: "gaijin"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote



But they had PVDS detained as a suspect on Friday, I believe...then on Saturday, the word was out that the grounds for his detention/arrest were "complicity in premeditated murder"...very very specific.  Then the next day, he's released????   This does not speak well for Aruba LE, in my opinion.

I have no dogs in this race - don't care if he's in or out, as I don't know anything for sure.  It just seems very odd.  One day there's evidence, and the next day, there's not enough?


I agree...its very confusing...seems one day that they are very specific in their charges in regards to the father...only one in which they used the word "premeditated"....and then he's out.
Doesnt make sense ...at least not from here.
for the record:  

FACT:  paulus van der sloot was detained on suspicion of the same charges as the other four:

medepleging moord (complicity in murder, in dutch law premeditated is implicit)

medepleging doodslag (complicity in manslaughter)  

medepleging ontvoering met dood als gevolg  (complicity in kidnapping leading to death)  

he was released because the judge found that the record did not support a reasonable suspicion that he was involved in these offenses.  

It appears the police overreached  (the fist 48 hours in on police authority).  It is apparent they did so to pressure Joran.  It did not work as far as we know.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #104 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:40 AM »

Quote from: "MsPooh"
o.k. in the beginning they arrested the original 3 then let them go and re-arrested them right?Then we hear that they wired the car and all the other surveillance to get info, we haven't (and probably won't) know what they gathered from this..Fast forward to today..PVDS has been arrested and then let go couple days later, we do not know REALLY why they let him go, but I'll bet that LE is watching him like a hawk as to his movements.


Good thinking, but I think PVDS is probably going to be the best he can possibly be for the next few weeks.  He's probably learned from his son's surveillance that this is exactly what LE will do to him.

There's more going on here than meets the eye.

Also wondering what happened to the "more arrests" theory...who said that anyway???
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Professor
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« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:43 AM »

Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "sandraK"
David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived


as counselled by his father? for Joran to establish his own timeline?


I'd bet money that no one saw him walking home, during those 40 minutes. And, on an island that claims to be open for business 24/7, and where everybody knows everybody, that would speak volumes.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:45 AM »

Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "iquitos"
How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.


right and in a BAY with totally different current and climatology than this area.
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kuaitzu
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« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2005, 10:26:47 AM »

[
Dj Steve-will be released around 1pm today[/quote]

I just read that Steve Croes Mom collapsed outside the courtroom due to extreme emotion about her son being locked up and all of the trauma surrounding the case. This case certinaly..if nothing else has affected a multitude of people.
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A lie has a certain weight for those that tend to believe it.
klaasend
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« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2005, 10:27:09 AM »

Quote from: "DivaToo"
Can anyone confirm the news snippet I heard before my hubby changed it off of the news that The Texas Search group said "The family can only hope for closure at this point" I think this was Sat or Sunday, and hubby won't have the news on, he said its depressing him..... Please confirm any statement s made by the TES group TYIA

The Texas group from the beginning has said that this is most likely the recovery of a body case.  They hold out very little hope that she is alive.
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2005, 10:27:43 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.


Agreed. I'm a landlubber and most of my experience with bodies of water is with lakes, not the sea. Who here knows about tides and currents?

What was the tide stage around the time Natalee disappeared -- 2 a.m. May 30? Was the tide coming in or going out? I understand that the water is very shallow on the southwest side of the island for quite a ways out. If Natalee were left in these shallow waters, would she wash out to sea or into shore?
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momto5
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« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2005, 10:27:45 AM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Well, the group from Texas sounded very confident yesterday that they would find her.  The inspired me.  They said that they would find her today, and if not today, within the next couple of days.  They said Beth would be able to take her daughter home.  I have to believe in that or I get very depressed about this.  I hope that it will also mean that justice is served for Natalee.  But my biggest hope here is that her mother be able to take her home, dead or alive.

I completely agree. I was also very hopeful again when the search group said so confidentally they would find her in the next day or two. I think right now the most important thing is to find her so they can take her home. If she is dead, her family needs some closure, and a place they can go and place flowers and visit her. Once she is found then maybe the case can move forward in a better direction, one that will find some justice for natalee.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
pinemeadows
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« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2005, 10:28:17 AM »

Quote from: "gagirl"
Yesterday it was stated on Fox that the prosecutors had already filed an emergency appeal regarding the release of PVDS.


That IS news...wonder if we'll hear more about that today.
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tkubi7
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« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2005, 10:28:40 AM »

Quote from: "kuaitzu"
[
Dj Steve-will be released around 1pm today


I just read that Steve Croes Mom collapsed outside the courtroom due to extreme emotion about her son being locked up and all of the trauma surrounding the case. This case certinaly..if nothing else has affected a multitude of people.[/quote]

She was on FOX last night and looked much better. Says she has cancer and has not been well nor hasn't slept.
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momto5
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« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2005, 10:28:53 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "iquitos"
How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.


right and in a BAY with totally different current and climatology than this area.

Right, and also they had an idea of where she might wash up.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
cancon
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« Reply #114 on: June 27, 2005, 10:29:15 AM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote


That would help explain his being charged with complicity in a premeditated murder one day, and less than 24 hours later, being released.  That really puzzles me.

And save the flames...it's just a thought.


I wrote a dissertation last night on that, trying to get someone with knowledge of Dutch law to explain if it's standard practice to arrest someone for kidnapping and murder  when you either don't have enough on 'em to make the arrest stick or as a way to pressure someone else. Seems the antithesis of good case-building and ethical procedure??


it may seem so but you have to understand the European criminal system, ie. the Dutch system of law which governs Aruba has a reverse onus, you are guilty until proven innocent and therefore the state has wide powers of detention in order to assist the investigation process

whereas in our system, you wouldn't dare arrest someone without enough evidence for a grand jury to convict, in the viewpoint of the prosecutor, because prosecutors don't always get their grand jury indictments either

you can haul people in for questioning but you can't hold them though if I may reference Law & Order, they will try to hold someone on some other little charge if possible, but even then the suspect is released if you haven't got the probable cause to charge them with an offence

I imagine both systems have pros and cons, depending on your viewpoint, if you are a monarch, you gotta love the "guilty until proven innocent" onus
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heavyheart
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« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2005, 10:29:21 AM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Well, the group from Texas sounded very confident yesterday that they would find her.  The inspired me.  They said that they would find her today, and if not today, within the next couple of days.  They said Beth would be able to take her daughter home.  I have to believe in that or I get very depressed about this.  I hope that it will also mean that justice is served for Natalee.  But my biggest hope here is that her mother be able to take her home, dead or alive.


I agree, my heart breaks for her family and as much as I want there to be justice, there cannot be any peace w/o having Natalee back in Alabama.
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bamajo
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« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2005, 10:29:42 AM »

good morning all.  i've been trying to keep up, but i'm sure i'm still a bit behind.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #117 on: June 27, 2005, 10:30:10 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "cancon"
Quote from: "sandraK"
David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived


as counselled by his father? for Joran to establish his own timeline?


I'd bet money that no one saw him walking home, during those 40 minutes. And, on an island that claims to be open for business 24/7, and where everybody knows everybody, that would speak volumes.


BINGO! that is what I posted about last pm. Then someone said the vacationers would be to "into" their vacations to see someone. I would think that after this amount of media, if a person saw another person walking down that road even near the timeframe joran perports to be walking----it would have been reported. I understand the road can be dark, but even arubagirl can't understand how NO ONE could confirm seeing him walking that distance.
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #118 on: June 27, 2005, 10:30:28 AM »

OT: Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, is describing the Otero killings right now in the courthouse... it's live on Fox... he is so matter-of-fact.... CHILLING.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #119 on: June 27, 2005, 10:31:10 AM »

Quote from: "JessesMom"
(SNIPPED)

He's not charged but 'suspected', thats a enormous difference in dutch law. Somebody is officially charged on the first day of trial, until then he's just a suspect. During that pre-trail arrest the Aruban LE has to present enough evidence to the judge to prolong that arrest with a given amount of days. That's up to the judge. In this system you are locked up if your are  suspected of a crime, these intervals where the judge comes in play are specifically designed to avoid people being detained for a pretty long time without enough evidence to do so.
The Aruban LE thought they had enough to keep PvdS locked up, the judge didn't share that opinion.



I concur, there is also a mention of using PVDS as a phychological key to pressure JVDS to confess.  And maybe the pressure from both Beth and Jug to 'have' PVDS to be arrested on way or the other.  The impartial Judge probably made the right decision, not enough substantial evidence even for suspicion.  The mention of Greta interview got him arrested, but I think the full unedited probably got him off.  Many time shows are edited and can be skewed to give the impression that someone is not talking or said something..perhaps after reviewing the taped interview, it was maybe perhaps showing an explanation, a elaboration of a statement that got cut out or edited..[/quote]

On Fox yesterday someone said (and I can't remember who this was, whether an attorney or another official) that the prosecution presented 4 affidavits or depositions in support of his arrest.  The judge reviewed these 4 affidavits and determined they were inconsistent.  So apparently it was more than just the Greta interview.[/quote]

Four affidavits could have been 4 interrogating police or observers during the PVDS questioning, it could also been during the interview.. I could be wrong but the idea of reviewing the full unabridged tape interview would in my mind done the tipping of the Judges decision.  ( the the character of the person signing the affidavits)
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