RBN #29 6/27/05 Monday

[Anna]

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This board was founded with people that wanted to talk about the story, learn about Natalee and be a place of understanding.  Not a place place for character assasination.

Remember next time before you hit the submit button...would you say what you are saying about your own daughter?

Or you could also ask, would you say what are saying about your own son?

<<

Mornin' All!

I will never catch up now.  Can't sleep on this board and now work calls.  But did want to comment that the son in this case is the one who pounds his chest at NH's mother in the presence of his parents so lots of enabling going on there.

As far as would I say something about my own son, I have no doubt that I would have long ago said far worse and to him if he lied and withheld information involving a life and the arrest of two innocent people at his bequest.

After he regained consciousness, I would hope I would be the first to say it.  It is not love to teach a child to lie and do wrong but indifference, taking the easy way out.  I remember one time one of mine did something awful and I drove him straight to the offended party and listened to his apology before I would even address the real problem.  He had ordered an computer COD in the name of a little girl at school on whom he had a crush and a rash of other things, cheap laser watches she would think gross, etc.  He got to apologize to everybody from the postmaster on for that.  Guess what?  He never did it again.

But then I know for a fact he knows better for we have reared him to do so and he has no excuse for sorry behavior.  And if he did something of this nature, much as I would be heartbroken and even knowing death penalty in this country, I would do my level best to help him confess and tell all he knows.  The police interrogation would be mild compared to what I would say or do.  I would know I had failed as a parent to instill the character in him and that he was seriously flawed at this point, not tell him not to say anything as has been done in this case.

All anybody wants from Joren in this case is the truth for a change and all he knnows related to her disappearance for LE does not even know where he last saw her because of all the lies.  He well may have left her on the beach alone but we cannot know that for it was his third story, a perfect example of the result of lying and why not to do it.

So, yes, I think I would say about my son any of the things I have stated about Joren but he would be the first to hear it directly from me, post haste.

[cancon]

The previous judge had been relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (sic) So they bring in a new judge, and he says, "Evidence? I don't see no evidence? I don't see no stinkin' evidence."

 

as far as we know the previous judge was not relieved.  he became a member of the caribbean court and left.  hence the new judge.

how convenient

[Professor]

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

[DT]

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

Maybe their wasn't any evidence against him.

[cancon]

Anna does raise an interesting ethical dilemma

how many parents would be willing to lie or do anything to support a child even if they knew they were guilty or suspected it to avoid having their kid's life ruined, I 'm sure Mr. and  Mrs. Van Der Sloot are more upset that Joran may lose his tennis scholarship to a Florida university, if he hasn't already, than the fact Natalee Holloway is missing

we were talking last night about Karla Holmolka, her mother supported her EVEN AFTER IT CAME OUT ON VIDEOTAPE, that Karla had helped her husband rape her little sister, and that she died as a result of a drug they gave her (the drug stolen by Karla from the vet clinic she worked for) but the father disowned her once he saw that videotape - we could never figure out the mother there.......in this case the parents had no knowledge of the crime but how can you support a daughter in that case?

Karla's story before that discovery was that she was a battered wife, afraid for her life, Paul made her do it blah blah blah when it was clear she was an equal partner in the depravity

[bamajo]

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

ha, ha, ha!!!  that last comment has me rolling!  

good call.  very good call on the questions before that.  especially since this new judge supposedly is not familiar with this case.  perhaps greta can dig a little deeper on this judge, and see if there are any connections with him and PVDS.

[heavyheart]

.  

This board was founded with people that wanted to talk about the story, learn about Natalee and be a place of understanding.  Not a place place for character assasination.

Remember next time before you hit the submit button...would you say what you are saying about your own daughter?

Or you could also ask, would you say what are saying about your own son?

<<

Mornin' All!

...

So, yes, I think I would say about my son any of the things I have stated about Joren but he would be the first to hear it directly from me, post haste.

Anne, between you and my Mom, Joren wouldn't stand a chance  

[Rosalie]

i sure wish greta had nosed around the v/d sloot house like she did the Kalpoes, going into the bedrooms etc.  we need to see the layout and get an idea how private that "apartment" joran lived in is and how it sits in relation to the rest of the house.  is there alternate access?  next time she visits her pet monkey next door greta should check it out.  I know there is a wall in back and a vacant lot behind it.  could joran get out that way?  anybody got a floor plan?

I would think you would be more interested in having Greta talk to the person who says they saw two men dragging ?? a woman off the beach in the wee hours of the morning that Natalee vanished !!!!

[GreatOwl]

This is very old news, however, I have not heard anything of Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig since he announced the case solved and that the suspect was going to lead authorities to the body.

Perhaps this was discussed before and I missed it.  Is there now a "new" Deputy Police Commissioner?

I know there was some speculation that someone confessed and then retracted their confession.  Sort of a nolo contendere situation after that.

[friend of monkeys]

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

ha, ha, ha!!!  that last comment has me rolling!  

good call.  very good call on the questions before that.  especially since this new judge supposedly is not familiar with this case.  perhaps greta can dig a little deeper on this judge, and see if there are any connections with him and PVDS.

yes...all this and the guy can not catch the plane???

[Daniel]

[..] but you have to understand the European criminal system, ie. the Dutch system of law which governs Aruba has a reverse onus, you are guilty until proven innocent and therefore the state has wide powers of detention in order to assist the investigation process

This is very much untrue. There is no revere onus. [..]

I concur, the govt spokesperson from Aruba Reuben and the Justice spokes person Marianne say this repeatedly.

No, it's untrue. Reverse onus may well be the MO and mindset of the investigators and the prosecution, but there is no such thing as a reverse onus in our law system. They will have to prove the suspect's guilt beyond reasonable doubt or the suspects will walk (and be compensated for the days spent in jail innocently). You've also seen how PvdS' detention wasn't prolonged because the DA had failed to produce sufficient support for a reasonable suspicion of guilt. It's not that PvdS had to prove his own innocence.

[sandraK]

There are certain circumstances under which a person who has murdered a U.S. national in a foreign country can be arrested by U.S. authorities anywhere in the world and tried for the murder, but the murder must be related to an act of terrorism.

[DivaToo]

Can anyone confirm the news snippet I heard before my hubby changed it off of the news that The Texas Search group said "The family can only hope for closure at this point" I think this was Sat or Sunday, and hubby won't have the news on, he said its depressing him..... Please confirm any statement s made by the TES group TYIA

The Texas group from the beginning has said that this is most likely the recovery of a body case.  They hold out very little hope that she is alive.

Thanks, that is what I thought I heard  

[MominTN]

The previous judge had been relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (sic) So they bring in a new judge, and he says, "Evidence? I don't see no evidence? I don't see no stinkin' evidence."

 

as far as we know the previous judge was not relieved.  he became a member of the caribbean court and left.  hence the new judge.

Regardless of their explanation, look at the facts.  No investigation for over a week into the boy who Natalee was with.  No search of him or his family's property for many days.  Son lies to police.  Son's friends lie to police.  They are arrested.  Father arrested with charge of premeditation of murder.  Judge replaced.  DJ released.  Father released.
Looks like corruption to me.

No one ever answers my question as to why the DJ went to the police with the same lie that Joran told about dropping off Natalee at the HI where she was talking with two security guards.  Why would Croes do this?

Did anyone check out PVDS story that his son wasn't home when the Twittys showed up?  The police should have asked Joran where he was earlier and then gone to the casino and checked the videotapes on that very night.    I think both Croes and PVDS are complicit in the crime at a minimum and should not be released.  If the judge from Curacao had stayed on the case and these men were left in prison, it is more likely others would have been indicted or contradictions in stories brought out in interrogation.  Maybe now they will lose their heads instead.

[Ting]

the person who says they saw two men dragging ?? a woman off the beach in the wee hours of the morning that Natalee vanished !!!!

It is interesting that the decision was made not to follow up on that.

[neil]

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived

 There is a rumor that there was a Van der Sloot ATM transaction at 3:00AM.  

Also the Kalpoe mom in an intervied said that her son told her that he was worried about the drive to the lighthouse because the car was low.  I think she meant low on gas.  

If this ATM rumor is true is certainly could not have been dad Van at the ATM, otherwise there would be evidence to keep him in jail, so it would have been Joran at the ATM, probably getting money to put gas in the Kalpoe car to transport Natalee's body.  There is serious doubt that Joran could have disposed of the body without a car, unless he appropriated a small boat near the Marriott.

A wonder if the police have looked into gas purchases near the Marriott in that time frame.

[bamajo]

i sure wish greta had nosed around the v/d sloot house like she did the Kalpoes, going into the bedrooms etc.  we need to see the layout and get an idea how private that "apartment" joran lived in is and how it sits in relation to the rest of the house.  is there alternate access?  next time she visits her pet monkey next door greta should check it out.  I know there is a wall in back and a vacant lot behind it.  could joran get out that way?  anybody got a floor plan?

I would think you would be more interested in having Greta talk to the person who says they saw two men dragging ?? a woman off the beach in the wee hours of the morning that Natalee vanished !!!![/quote]

that and someone posted something about one of the hotel cameras picking up a girl walking alone on the beach.  whatever became of those two accounts??  

rumour or just not ever followed up on?

[EdwinW]

Does it only seem suspicious to me that PVDS returns from the Netherlands, covers for his son, and doesn't get arrested until the judge from Curacao is in charge.  Then suddenly the judge from the Netherlands is sent over who hasn't heard so much about the case and PVDS is set free.  

Aruba is a pretty small community. Paul van der S. was arrested so his collegeas (direct people where he works) are too much involved to the investigation. That's why a judge from Curacao needed to come. Probably they now also send a Dutch judge.

Regardless of the type of judicial system in place, we think the Dutch are rather lax in prosecuting crime.  And when they cannot, as in drugs and prostitution, they just make it legal.

Oh sure And according to Fox News we also kill unborn children who miss a small part of their finger.  I can say: not true at all.

Prostitution is legal. 100 % true. Did you know that prostitutes also have to pay their taxes ?

For drugs we have 'soft' drugs (marihuana and hashish) and 'hard' drugs (heroine, cocaine, crack, speed, etc). Hard drugs is prohibited at all times. Soft drugs is only allowed for a daily dosis.

If you need more info, you can drop me a PM. Now back to the NH discussion

[Compananzi]

By the way, answer me this. The previous judge was relieved because he had "seen too much of the evidence." (Forget about the fact that that is what judges are supposed to do. Hear evidence.) And so they bring in a new judge, and there are thousands of pages of transcripts and official reports and WITHIN HOURS he is able to wade through it all and come to the conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to hold PVDS any longer. Answer me how it is possible for him to digest all of that material in just a few hours. He must have been to the Evelyn Wood speedreading course.

ha, ha, ha!!!  that last comment has me rolling!  

good call.  very good call on the questions before that.  especially since this new judge supposedly is not familiar with this case.  perhaps greta can dig a little deeper on this judge, and see if there are any connections with him and PVDS.

Maybe the exiting Judge, for what ever business or legal reason, saw the evidence but was to afraid to give a controversial ruling, in steps the Hatchet man and he gets the dirty job.  Its like here when you get refused a job or get fired...they say ..umm the Comittee has decided...whilst you know very well that that one person made the decision....again, just more speculation.

[heavyheart]

Anna does raise an interesting ethical dilemma

how many parents would be willing to lie or do anything to support a child even if they knew they were guilty or suspected so to avoid having their life ruined, I 'm sure Mr. and  Mrs. Van Der Sloot ares more upset that Joran may lose his tennis scholarship to a Florida university than the fact Natalee Holloway is missing

we were talking last night about Karla Holmolka, her mother supported her EVEN AFTER IT CAME OUT ON VIDEOTAPE, that Karla had helped her husband rape her little sister, and that she died as a result of a drug they gave her (the drug stolen by Karla from the vet clinic she worked for) but the father disowned her once he saw that videotape

Karla's story before that discovery was that she was a battered wife, afraid for her life, blah blah blah

Mine would sooner offer me up for the gas chamber before knowingly let me get away with petty theft.  I don't even want to think what she would do to me if I was disrespectful to a girlfriends mother.