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Author Topic: RBN #29 6/27/05 Monday  (Read 236647 times)
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BK
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« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2005, 09:16:48 AM »

Quote
a Judge from Curacao released Paul.
Aruba LE was Not amused.


Where did you hear that the Aruba LE was Not ammused??
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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2005, 09:19:18 AM »

Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
Good mornin' all. I am truly worried about what the next few days will hold. It appears to me that if they let Croes out of jail because all he had done was lied, then we can expect they will release JVDS, Deepak and Satish because all they have on them is their lies.


That is a valid concern. I think we all should prepare ourselves for the possibility that Nat will never be found and no one will ever be punished for her disappearance.  I view the Aruban authorities much like the Colorado authorities in the Jon Benet case.  So much time was wasted that good untouched evidence could have been gathered. Now, it is probably too late.  We need a. a body, b. a confession and good prosecution, c. or try to get over this entire ordeal.


Well, they have apperantly enough evidence to present to the judge to validate a longer stay in prison for Joran and his friends. That doesn't necceraly mean that's enough to get them convicted, we'll just have te wait for that until the first day of the trail.
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momto5
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« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2005, 09:22:24 AM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "momto5"
Quote from: "bogey_blusey_chaston"
Quote from: "tkubi7"
Good mornin' all. I am truly worried about what the next few days will hold. It appears to me that if they let Croes out of jail because all he had done was lied, then we can expect they will release JVDS, Deepak and Satish because all they have on them is their lies.


That is a valid concern. I think we all should prepare ourselves for the possibility that Nat will never be found and no one will ever be punished for her disappearance.  I view the Aruban authorities much like the Colorado authorities in the Jon Benet case.  So much time was wasted that good untouched evidence could have been gathered. Now, it is probably too late.  We need a. a body, b. a confession and good prosecution, c. or try to get over this entire ordeal.


I would also like to add that if she is dead, and ever is found the chances of finding a cause of death might be slim. Two examples of missing people whose cause of death was never determined are Danielle Van Dam (found on land) and Laci Peterson(washed onto shore). Even though here in the states we knew it was murder, there was no cause of death. Most of the evidence in both cases were circumstancial or pure forensic. With the Van dam case they were able to determine a possible crime scene, otherwise I think her killer might have walked. Natalees case mayb remain a mystery even if she is found.
 

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.


iquitos,
If my memory serves me right, I think Laci disappeared Christmas time and washed up in April. So 4-5 mths? Theres alot of speculation of whether she was weighted dow or placed in a barrel. Either way, no way to determine cause of death bc she was missing parts, etc.
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Kelly
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« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2005, 09:23:59 AM »

Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Nutbrain"
Delurking to ask rogers - who is this missing person on Natalee's flight?  I have seen reference to it but can't find any info  Thanks


I don't know if you'll find this in print - Greta on Fox made this statement during one of her interviews.  It was not on her regular show, so it won't be in any transcript.

Never heard another thing about it - guess you could go to www.gretawire.com and email her.  She does answer some emails.


Hey Pinemeadows- ive been followin this case from day one of this forum and havent been on for about 4 days or so...wonderin if you had heard anything new bou this "missing person" on nat's flight...... i know about the father and dj bein freed..but in the dark with everythin else
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Kelly
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« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2005, 09:24:55 AM »

One thing that is INDISPUTABLE about this case is the outpouring -- the literal gush -- of sympathy and support for Joran and his family, by Aruban nationals. For the van der Sloot family that has done nothing but lie and cover up, since the beginning of this investigation. And booking agents and tour guides and parents around the world will be on notice that they will NEVER have the undivided sympathy of the Aruban people if one of their daughters turns up missing.

If they didn't get it this time, they NEVER would.

That message is going out loud and clear, from the front pages of AM Digital that reads, "A Crisis Blown Out of Proportion," to anti-Natalee messages that are going out on TOP95, to the posters on this forum who cannot accept the eyewitness accounts of Natalee's classmates, and who must continue to paint her as a girl out of control who is merely taking an extended holiday in some Aruban crack house, or who "had it coming."
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bobntexas
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2005, 09:27:42 AM »

Quote from: "sandraK"
With all the good places to send money  to help    Natalee ,
What do Monkeys Think is the best?


The Tx group would qualify for a tax deduction whereas the Holloway Trust Fund would not. Thus, your donation to the Tx  group would be with before tax dollars and to the Holloway Trust with after tax dollars.
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Gerben aka Pays Bas
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« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2005, 09:29:38 AM »

Quote from: "LilOrphan"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote


That would help explain his being charged with complicity in a premeditated murder one day, and less than 24 hours later, being released.  That really puzzles me.

And save the flames...it's just a thought.


I wrote a dissertation last night on that, trying to get someone with knowledge of Dutch law to explain if it's standard practice to arrest someone for kidnapping and murder  when you either don't have enough on 'em to make the arrest stick or as a way to pressure someone else. Seems the antithesis of good case-building and ethical procedure??


He's not charged but 'suspected', thats a enormous difference in dutch law. Somebody is officially charged on the first day of trial, until then he's just a suspect. During that pre-trail arrest the Aruban LE has to present enough evidence to the judge to prolong that arrest with a given amount of days. That's up to the judge. In this system you are locked up if your are  suspected of a crime, these intervals where the judge comes in play are specifically designed to avoid people being detained for a pretty long time without enough evidence to do so.
The Aruban LE thought they had enough to keep PvdS locked up, the judge didn't share that opinion.
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BarStine
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« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2005, 09:31:18 AM »

Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Bendex, that's spooky.  I'm sorry that happened to your friend.  This is why I challenged the editor of Aruba Today to provide crime statistics and polls on crime victimization.  Rape is an underreported crime.


On track with this, if I ever get any time, I'd like to know more about the crime there as well.  I know that the amigos were put in a NEW prison.  That's not to say the OLD prison was closed at all as the officials said the new one was attached to the old.  

So which is it?  How can it be a new prison when it's attached?  It sounds like it's nothing more than an addition to me.

Low crime rate?  Sure, that's why they built an annex to the prison. Confused




Maybe the FBI can work out something with Aruba LE to take the Guantanamo detainees off our hands.

There has not been a vanishing act this good since DB Cooper.  Like poof ... gone without a trace. I hope to learn by the 05' World Series what really happened.
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2005, 09:35:59 AM »

Quote from: "sandraK"
a Judge from Curacao released Paul.
 Aruba LE was Not amused.


This is v-e-d-d-y interesting...do you remember where you read this?
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Compananzi
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« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2005, 09:37:21 AM »

Quote from: "Cerulean"
Please post sources for the following about Joran or retract:

These are some of the stuff I heard too, if it helps...

pushed someone through a plate glass window  This story I did not see it listed from informed sources. i.e MSM both local or US


actually kicked younger brothers on regular basis I believe this story Anita confirmed, but I do not believe it was meant as some kinda ongoing abuse..more like sibling rivalry, stuff like that ..again my take.. and Anita did mentioned that on Greta on the Prowl..
uses date rape drugs on multiple females (or even one)

lived in bachelor apt due to violence against brothers  This is not a bachelor apt, it very common in Aruba or Holland that people rent out a Granny apt or Maids quarter.  I think it pretty within line that a 17 year old wanted a semi private quarter.  And no not to my knowledge was this due to violence to his brother.  In fact the little brother in the beginning of Joran arrest could not sleep etc..etc.

These are all serious accusations given over and over without any sources.  Either give sources or retract these statements.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2005, 09:38:51 AM »

Do we have a separate timeline for Itenary and events concerning Nat and Joran?
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sandy
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« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2005, 09:39:01 AM »

Anyone in the VDS family talking today - or Beth?
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2005, 09:39:28 AM »

Quote from: "KellyHey Pinemeadows- ive been followin this case from day one of this forum and havent been on for about 4 days or so...wonderin if you had heard anything new bou this "missing person" on nat's flight...... i know about the father and dj bein freed..but in the dark with everythin else[/quote


Kelly - haven't heard anything.  Why don't you post this evening when there's more monkeys here - perhaps someone else has info.  I'd like to know too!
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sandy
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« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2005, 09:41:42 AM »

What about all the promised additional arrests?
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Compananzi
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« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2005, 09:41:42 AM »

Quote from: "BarStine"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Bendex, that's spooky.  I'm sorry that happened to your friend.  This is why I challenged the editor of Aruba Today to provide crime statistics and polls on crime victimization.  Rape is an underreported crime.


On track with this, if I ever get any time, I'd like to know more about the crime there as well.  I know that the amigos were put in a NEW prison.  That's not to say the OLD prison was closed at all as the officials said the new one was attached to the old.  

So which is it?  How can it be a new prison when it's attached?  It sounds like it's nothing more than an addition to me.

Low crime rate?  Sure, that's why they built an annex to the prison. Confused






Maybe the FBI can work out something with Aruba LE to take the Guantanamo detainees off our hands.

There has not been a vanishing act this good since DB Cooper.  Like poof ... gone without a trace. I hope to learn by the 05' World Series what really happened.


Did they ever find DB Cooper??
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waited_too_long
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« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2005, 09:43:03 AM »

This topic keeps coming up. Something about an after-party. Isn't that this party:

http://gallery.magic965.com/thumbnails.php?album=235

If so, there is'nt really anything sinister and it seems to have been well attended.
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momto5
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« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2005, 09:43:38 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "BarStine"
Quote from: "pinemeadows"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Bendex, that's spooky.  I'm sorry that happened to your friend.  This is why I challenged the editor of Aruba Today to provide crime statistics and polls on crime victimization.  Rape is an underreported crime.


On track with this, if I ever get any time, I'd like to know more about the crime there as well.  I know that the amigos were put in a NEW prison.  That's not to say the OLD prison was closed at all as the officials said the new one was attached to the old.  

So which is it?  How can it be a new prison when it's attached?  It sounds like it's nothing more than an addition to me.

Low crime rate?  Sure, that's why they built an annex to the prison. Confused






Maybe the FBI can work out something with Aruba LE to take the Guantanamo detainees off our hands.

There has not been a vanishing act this good since DB Cooper.  Like poof ... gone without a trace. I hope to learn by the 05' World Series what really happened.


Did they ever find DB Cooper??

dont think so.
http://www.geocities.com/supiclone/9301/fbi.html
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arrabba
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« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2005, 09:44:28 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "Cerulean"
Please post sources for the following about Joran or retract:

These are some of the stuff I heard too, if it helps...

pushed someone through a plate glass window  This story I did not see it listed from informed sources. i.e MSM both local or US


actually kicked younger brothers on regular basis I believe this story Anita confirmed, but I do not believe it was meant as some kinda ongoing abuse..more like sibling rivalry, stuff like that ..again my take.. and Anita did mentioned that on Greta on the Prowl..
uses date rape drugs on multiple females (or even one)

lived in bachelor apt due to violence against brothers  This is not a bachelor apt, it very common in Aruba or Holland that people rent out a Granny apt or Maids quarter.  I think it pretty within line that a 17 year old wanted a semi private quarter.  And no not to my knowledge was this due to violence to his brother.  In fact the little brother in the beginning of Joran arrest could not sleep etc..etc.

These are all serious accusations given over and over without any sources.  Either give sources or retract these statements.


The plate glass window account was reported by Geraldo.  He learned this from talking to the parents of a student at ISA.  

Date rape drugs - source was PlanetHuff - I think.  I provided a link to this on a previous post.
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heavyheart
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« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2005, 09:46:03 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
One thing that is INDISPUTABLE about this case is the outpouring -- the literal gush -- of sympathy and support for Joran and his family, by Aruban nationals. For the van der Sloot family that has done nothing but lie and cover up, since the beginning of this investigation. And booking agents and tour guides and parents around the world will be on notice that they will NEVER have the undivided sympathy of the Aruban people if one of their daughters turns up missing.

If they didn't get it this time, they NEVER would.

That message is going out loud and clear, from the front pages of AM Digital that reads, "A Crisis Blown Out of Proportion," to anti-Natalee messages that are going out on TOP95, to the posters on this forum who cannot accept the eyewitness accounts of Natalee's classmates, and who must continue to paint her as a girl out of control who is merely taking an extended holiday in some Aruban crack house, or who "had it coming."


Prof...this is the first bit of common sense I've seen on this board in quite some time.  Good job.

I'm not a classmate, nor an acquaintance of Natalee.  I never ran into her on the street or had the pleasure of speaking with her.  I do however know the "type" of person she is.  I feel as though it were tangible that she is a good person and would not have been gone this long of her own free will.  It's unfortunate that the only real witnesses (Dash & mbhs05) we have to Natalees's character and personality have been driven away by a few inconsiderate members.  

This board was founded with people that wanted to talk about the story, learn about Natalee and be a place of understanding.  Not a place place for character assasination.

Remember next time before you hit the submit button...would you say what you are saying about your own daughter?
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LilOrphan
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« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2005, 09:46:03 AM »

Quote from: "Gerben aka Pays Bas"
Quote


He's not charged but 'suspected', thats a enormous difference in dutch law. Somebody is officially charged on the first day of trial, until then he's just a suspect. During that pre-trail arrest the Aruban LE has to present enough evidence to the judge to prolong that arrest with a given amount of days. That's up to the judge. In this system you are locked up if your are  suspected of a crime, these intervals where the judge comes in play are specifically designed to avoid people being detained for a pretty long time without enough evidence to do so.
The Aruban LE thought they had enough to keep PvdS locked up, the judge didn't share that opinion.


Thanks. As always, your insight is invaluable. Nevertheless, in terms of the Aruban LE, it seems like a misstep, then.  Shouldn't have arrested the man until you had more on him, IMO. Could just be a cultural difference in legal procedure, but it seems like common sense to me. Smile
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