RBN #29 6/27/05 Monday

[pinemeadows]

good morning all.  i've been trying to keep up, but i'm sure i'm still a bit behind.

Morning Bamajo....better read fast....

[KackyLacky]

Yesterday it was stated on Fox that the prosecutors had already filed an emergency appeal regarding the release of PVDS.

thanks gagirl.

[tkubi7]

[
I agree, my heart breaks for her family and as much as I want there to be justice, there cannot be any peace w/o having Natalee back in Alabama.

Can you imagine the pain that the parents would feel having to get on a plane to go home knowing they were leaving their daughter forever somewhere other than home

[mojo]

anybody notice the armload of evidence file the female prosecuter carried into court yesterday?

a lot of that "evidence" could be duplicates and reams and reams of paperwork that have absolutely no bearing. in any case there is a kitchen sink type mentality -- just in case it may be needed. i wouldn't put much emphasis on that. there are probably very few pieces of real evidence other than their stories at this point.

[KackyLacky]

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.

right and in a BAY with totally different current and climatology than this area.

Right, and also they had an idea of where she might wash up.

Exactly, because the killer, scott put her and himself there, sound familiar. joran placing himself at the Marriott Beach with a missing person. Does to me.

[iquitos]

whatever the reason for hauling Paulus in, this is a real setback because it is rare that a judge would intervene at this phase to cut him loose.   the prosecutor has broad authority to hold a person on mere suspicion after the initial 48 hour police detention.  Usually this is rubber stamped by the judge so they really were out on a limb to lose this so early.  it means they have little or nothing on him.

[dragonfly]

[
I agree, my heart breaks for her family and as much as I want there to be justice, there cannot be any peace w/o having Natalee back in Alabama.

Can you imagine the pain that the parents would feel having to get on a plane to go home knowing they were leaving their daughter forever somewhere other than home

My feeling is that it would torture you for the rest of your life.  It would be so devastating to lose your child in the prime of their life anyway.  It would be devastating to lose a child at all.  But to literally LOSE them, never to know where and how and why, never to have a place to visit them, and never to know 100% if they were alive or dead would be the worst possible thing, I would think.  To have to leave the last place they were known of to be, which is far away from home, and just go on with life would probably haunt you for the rest of your life.

[MsPooh]

[
I agree, my heart breaks for her family and as much as I want there to be justice, there cannot be any peace w/o having Natalee back in Alabama.

Can you imagine the pain that the parents would feel having to get on a plane to go home knowing they were leaving their daughter forever somewhere other than home

I was just thinking about that last night , and that has got to be THE worst thing that could ever happen.But in reality life has to go on, bills have to be paid and there is another child involved.I cannot even imagine.Thinking maybe I would have to build a grass hut on the beach and live out my days
holding onto hope.

[arrabba]

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

Agreed. I'm a landlubber and most of my experience with bodies of water is with lakes, not the sea. Who here knows about tides and currents?

What was the tide stage around the time Natalee disappeared -- 2 a.m. May 30? Was the tide coming in or going out? I understand that the water is very shallow on the southwest side of the island for quite a ways out. If Natalee were left in these shallow waters, would she wash out to sea or into shore?

From some research I did regarding this I concluded that if she was in the water close to shore, where people normally swim, she would wash up on shore.  Further out the is an undertow that would take her out to sea.  Apparently there is some sort of radar system that allows authorities to definitively know "when anyone steps foot in the water".  So, I guess they know if a boat went out to sea late at night.  So, my guess is she was hidden on land because:

1) In shallow water she would have washed ashore Aruba
2) In deeper waters there would be records of a boat heading to sea

The exception is if she was put out to sea the next morning and not in the middle of the night.

[EdwinW]

I agree. Remember we really dont know whats going on behind those closed doors while the interrogations are going on. Im also hopeful that the TX group will find her one way or another. I remember reading when Laci Peterson was missing that most missing people who disappear under circumstances related to foul play are usually found. It just takes time to find them. It took 4 mths for Laci to wash up, and in the end justice was served. So dont lose hope. Its only been 4 wks.

I hope I am terrible wrong, but there are other ways at Aruba to let someone disappear. The sea around Aruba is very deep. If you have NH and a small anchor .... well ... you know what I mean.

I heard another story this morning. The northern part of Aruba is very rough, lots of rocks and waves. If someone gets into the water there, waves keeps banging that body on the rocks. If there is a body in the water for only three days  .... I will save you the details, but  ... DNA would be the only option left.

[Compananzi]

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived

as counselled by his father? for Joran to establish his own timeline?

I'd bet money that no one saw him walking home, during those 40 minutes. And, on an island that claims to be open for business 24/7, and where everybody knows everybody, that would speak volumes.

BINGO! that is what I posted about last pm. Then someone said the vacationers would be to "into" their vacations to see someone. I would think that after this amount of media, if a person saw another person walking down that road even near the timeframe joran perports to be walking----it would have been reported. I understand the road can be dark, but even arubagirl can't understand how NO ONE could confirm seeing him walking that distance.

The saying that on a small island everybody knows everybody's business is just that .. a saying not to be taken seriously.  Aruba with a population, 20 years ago, of 70, 000 plus, and after Exxon closing burgeoned to 90,000 plus has really changed the dynamics according to Reuben Trappenberg for those who may have caught this saying.   Keep in mind that the Holliday Inns, Marriott, Wyndham.. all these big Corporate Island exploiters (tax free holiday, concessions, kickbacks) allow or force the host island to accept foreign more talented (read take less money and don;t unionize) replacement then Arubian workers.  (i.e. See Royal Carribean Cruiselines, Carnival etc...do you see alot of Americans, no?! Mostly ex soviet Eastern Bloc, Jamaican and Filipinos)

So eventho you have 90, 000 plus people it pretty much a different Aruba compared to 20 years ago.

[jac723]

Speaking of how the board slowed down a bit with the case--to me, other than Fox--no one really is focusing or giving any info on the case either!

One post sticks in my mind also...I am not sure if it was someone being a butthead or what-but the one that said "There will be a new judge, all supsects released.......It could have been a hoax-but it really happened-and 2 have been released.

I also read eith on Fox.com also--which is not settling well:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160759,00.html[/url/In an anecdote that illustrated the insular world of Aruba, Justice Minister Croes said Paul van der Sloot had recently visited him in his office after failing to become a judge, apparently seeking a position in Croes' department. Van der Sloot had also taught the justice minister's daughter.

[momto5]

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

iquitos,
Laci disappeared Dec 24th washed up around April 14th i think.

right and in a BAY with totally different current and climatology than this area.

Right, and also they had an idea of where she might wash up.

Exactly, because the killer, scott put her and himself there, sound familiar. joran placing himself at the Marriott Beach with a missing person. Does to me.

Yes and Scott also lied initially about where he was, He tried to say he was golfing remember? Then had to backtrack and say oh I forgot I went fishing instead. That is what placed him. Not trying to compare the two bc I do feel Scott was a bit smarter or had it well planned out more then I think anyone in this case has. But if you look at both cases and how the suspects lied, were considered good normal people...well...

[Professor]

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

Agreed. I'm a landlubber and most of my experience with bodies of water is with lakes, not the sea. Who here knows about tides and currents?

What was the tide stage around the time Natalee disappeared -- 2 a.m. May 30? Was the tide coming in or going out? I understand that the water is very shallow on the southwest side of the island for quite a ways out. If Natalee were left in these shallow waters, would she wash out to sea or into shore?

What makes you think it would have been the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days, and the police looking the other way.

From some research I did regarding this I concluded that if she was in the water close to shore, where people normally swim, she would wash up on shore.  Further out the is an undertow that would take her out to sea.  Apparently there is some sort of radar system that allows authorities to definitively know "when anyone steps foot in the water".  So, I guess they know if a boat went out to sea late at night.  So, my guess is she was hidden on land because:

1) In shallow water she would have washed ashore Aruba
2) In deeper waters there would be records of a boat heading to sea

The exception is if she was put out to sea the next morning and not in the middle of the night.

[Hagie9]

Morning! Im not depressed no reason to be...unless you consider my 5 yr old putting my cat in the toilet as depressing.

The cat's probably depressed...

Haha!! You beat me to that one!!  

[Professor]

What makes you think that a body would either have to be disposed of that night or the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days to work with, and with the police looking the other way.

[iquitos]

How long after she was killed did Lacey wash up?  A lot more effort needs /needed to go into question of where a body would make landfall if disposed of at sea off aruba.  i heard it was panama.  of course in the Joran scenario he did not have as much time as Scott to dispose of remains, if any.

Agreed. I'm a landlubber and most of my experience with bodies of water is with lakes, not the sea. Who here knows about tides and currents?

What was the tide stage around the time Natalee disappeared -- 2 a.m. May 30? Was the tide coming in or going out? I understand that the water is very shallow on the southwest side of the island for quite a ways out. If Natalee were left in these shallow waters, would she wash out to sea or into shore?

What makes you think it would have been the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days, and the police looking the other way.

From some research I did regarding this I concluded that if she was in the water close to shore, where people normally swim, she would wash up on shore.  Further out the is an undertow that would take her out to sea.  Apparently there is some sort of radar system that allows authorities to definitively know "when anyone steps foot in the water".  So, I guess they know if a boat went out to sea late at night.  So, my guess is she was hidden on land because:

1) In shallow water she would have washed ashore Aruba
2) In deeper waters there would be records of a boat heading to sea

The exception is if she was put out to sea the next morning and not in the middle of the night.

 

professor you are correct that they would have had a window of a few days after their initial questioning but not 11 days becasue things started heating up and supposedly they were under constant surveillance, if you believe that.

[KackyLacky]

David Kock, defense attorney for Satish Kalpoe, said police have scrutinized cell phone records and Internet traffic as part of the investigation, CNN reported.

Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot called Deepak Kalpoe about 2:40 a.m. the morning Holloway disappeared and, according to Deepak Kalpoe's statements, Joran Van Der Sloot told him he had left Holloway on the beach and was walking home. Kock said Joran Van Der Sloot text-messaged Deepak Kalpoe about 40 minutes later that he had arrived

as counselled by his father? for Joran to establish his own timeline?

I'd bet money that no one saw him walking home, during those 40 minutes. And, on an island that claims to be open for business 24/7, and where everybody knows everybody, that would speak volumes.

BINGO! that is what I posted about last pm. Then someone said the vacationers would be to "into" their vacations to see someone. I would think that after this amount of media, if a person saw another person walking down that road even near the timeframe joran perports to be walking----it would have been reported. I understand the road can be dark, but even arubagirl can't understand how NO ONE could confirm seeing him walking that distance.

The saying that on a small island everybody knows everybody's business is just that .. a saying not to be taken seriously.  Aruba with a population, 20 years ago, of 70, 000 plus, and after Exxon closing burgeoned to 90,000 plus has really changed the dynamics according to Reuben Trappenberg for those who may have caught this saying.   Keep in mind that the Holliday Inns, Marriott, Wyndham.. all these big Corporate Island exploiters (tax free holiday, concessions, kickbacks) allow or force the host island to accept foreign more talented (read take less money and don;t unionize) replacement then Arubian workers.  (i.e. See Royal Carribean Cruiselines, Carnival etc...do you see alot of Americans, no?! Mostly ex soviet Eastern Bloc, Jamaican and Filipinos)

So eventho you have 90, 000 plus people it pretty much a different Aruba compared to 20 years ago.

Right I understand all that companazi, but at this point anyone seen walking down that road that even slightly resembled joran would have been reported, I would think.

[arrabba]

Professor wrote: What makes you think it would have been the next day? I hate to be cynical, but the amigos and daddy had 11 days to dispose of a body and to clean up after themselves. And even an idiot can do a pretty good job with 11 days, and the police looking the other way.

Yeah, it may have been longer, assuming JvdS is the perp.  If Natalee was brought to his house, alive or not, and subsequently died, there was a good amount of time to think of and execute a plan to hide her.  If that's the case, the plan was expedited when her parents showed up at JvdS's home.

[cancon]

1.   For those feeling depressed, just because the Aruban police didn't have enough evidence NOW to hold these people in detention doesn't mean they won't have enough evidence LATER, anyone released can just as easily be re-arrested if the facts warrant it

2.  Was the Paul Van Der Sloot arrest an overreaction to pressure or a tactic - well if I were Joran Van Der Sloot and I hear my father has waived the father-son privilege, I'd be rather concerned because it was that privilege that had me concerned.... there is an allegation that PVDS counselled all the boys what to say - so imagine Paul tells Joran, keep your mouth shut for as long as possible, I know it is hard but to use his own words, Stand up to the pressure because you'll end up free in the long run as long as you keep your mouth shut - if they don't find the body, they don't have much of case and because I cannot be compelled to testify vs you, nor can you be compelled to testify vs me(?) then they cannot force us to say anything, as long as you didn't tell the Kalpoe brothers anything, you're good to go.......

now when it is publicly announced he is waiving that privilege that has got to make Joran very nervous and we don't know what PVDS has said to the cops this weekend

3. Regarding an island of 90,000 - as someone who lives in a town of 90,000, I can assure you I don't know at least 85,000 of them and there are many areas of town I've never been in - having said that though a tall guy like Joran walking down the road at 2:00 - 3:00 am in a heavily tourist area, giving that most of his friends were late night party animals as well, hard to believe no one saw Joran walking home and it was stated that Joran didn't strike them as the kind of kid who would walk home...