RBN #30 06/27/05 Monday-PM_Tues AM

[OldFart]

So, I can only answer to posts answered directly to me?

All righty then. Is that a new rule? I think I missed that one.

Well, certainly people who have never been here have not gotten that much credibility in talking about something. I was talking about people being on the ISLAND. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

That's like saying that everybody in the U.S. are religious freaks while never having been there.

I don't mind anyone posting, but by God if you're going to attack my HOME, then you better have something to back it up. Sorry if THAT offends YOU.

[
[/b] You know it really bothers me that you continually are put in the position of defending yourself to some of the thoughless people on this board.  I've lived in Aruba and I've lived in the United States.....and believe me the US has far more problems that Aruba ..... you are probably going to have to learn to JUST IGNORE these thoughless ones

Being and oldfart and observing more that anything ...can anyone give "ARUBAGIRL" temp.  Flyspray authority or something like it.

She has taking a shelacking for attempting be be informative for this group and yet has to put up with all the BS bashing of the differences of her country to the US .

My hat is off to her for simply staying here andlputting up with it.  If we could clone her 100 fold  we would get answers.

[katya]

What is even more appaling is that there are those that would come to their defense.

Let's hope so, put yourself in their shoes...can you imagine NOBODY coming to your defense.....I hope you never experience that, yet one day those words will bite you in the a$$

Yes!!!

[~TAZ_MAN~]

New info on Riehl site now http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Joran and the plate glass window.

Very interesting.

Yet one more example of a person with temperment/behavioral issues that has grown accustomed to disregarding law and social ethics.

Thats a nice way of calling him a sociopath.

[m.a. johnson]

What is even more appaling is that there are those that would come to their defense.

Thank you!

Either way, if the brothers didnt kill her, they still contributed to the fact that the investigation went in a totally different direction and 2 innocent guards were wrongly convicted.  Evidence was lost and Natalie now missed that crucial 48 hour window after her dissapearance of being found.

I hope aruba has some sort of law against that behavior.

Not withstanding that Natalee's Parents, Step parents, friends and family have had to endure aggregous agony over the possible fate of this missing child for weeks on end.

[WonderWoman]

Remember in Pulp Fiction when Maurice said he was gonna get 'medieval' on the guys that beat him up?  Well, if those three boys 'walk', I'm afeard somebody might just get 'Alabama' on 'em   ....  Not just my speculation...read this elsewhere, too.

That's the attitude that is getting this investigation nowhere.......IMO

[klaasend]

WonderWoman

I think its apparent that whatever happened, the chances of finding the truth have been severly altered by Jug and his friends

Or Joran and his friends!!

[SoccerDad]

They coldly looked the other way as the lives of 2 innocent guards hung in the balance.

You don't know that.

Ok, you're right. One of the K. bros. allegedly apologizes to the guard in jail. I just hate to imagine the fate those poor guards might have met...

[WonderWoman]

Lausa, it is very mysterious that the Diario reporter Hobart Thiel has himself "disappeared" since car chase night. I would think that at least someone from the US media circus would be all over that, even if it was a publicity stunt or a hoax, or whatever on the part of Mr Thiel. Especially so, if that were the case. It is not my impression that the US media have been reticent in their criticism of anything and everything on the island.

That it has not been seized on, and that these other rumors have not been tracked down and either debunked and the debunking loudly and publicly aired, raises questions, to say the least.

The Aruban people can only do so much, and if they are trying to make the family happy by following up on their 'intuitions" it does not leave much time for tracking of other leads......ever been at work and have someone constantly looking over your shoulder?  You make more mistakes because you are nervous.......

[westcoastguy]

If you go to www.al.com then click on special report by Nat's pic then click on photos from search for NH  you will see an aerial of HI and how the pools of the hotels are set way back from beach.  Would explain, possibly, why MB kids by pool couldn't hear anything from beach.  

Sorry, I tried to cut and paste link but wouldn't work.

Not that it makes a big difference, but is that the Holiday in (the main hotel you see in the pic)?  It says "Holliday in at the top right???" Is it the hotel above the main white one there???

[mordred]

Lausa, it is very mysterious that the Diario reporter Hobart Thiel has himself "disappeared" since car chase night.

Hmmm, this I had not heard....

Whats this about the 'Dario' reporter missing??? I haven't heard anything about it!?

And people (Ting, I think:?: ), please lets try to maitain some objectivity - that report of Joran & the glass window is prefaced by the statement , "While there is currently no evidence to suggest that Joran v d Sloot threw a boy through a plate glass window, as some news reports have claimed....."

[~TAZ_MAN~]

Golden Boy Luckily is carrying a knife on him this night. As posted from Riehl World

Joran v d Sloot and the Plate Glass Window
While there is currently no evidence to suggest that Joran v d Sloot threw a boy through a plate glass window, as some news reports have claimed, a reliable source has confirmed an incident on January 23 of this year which may have led to the rumor.

In one of what might be a pattern of confrontations with visiting American teenagers - which will be addressed in a post tomorrow night, on the day in question Joran v d Sloot is said to have gotten into a fight with an 18 year old male American over possible advances toward a female. The male and female Americans were said to be visiting the island together.

At some point in the confrontation, Joran, much larger than the tourist, was reported to have thrown him against the plate glass window of a local Dunkin Donuts, however the window did not break.

The police were called to deal with the incident, however no arrests were made and no official report was filed.

In addition to the hand to hand confrontation, one employee of the Dunkin Donouts has claimed that they heard Joran v d Sloot threaten the American tourist with a knife he claimed to be carrying.
This report comes from a very reliable and objective source in Aruba.

[luna]

New info on Riehl site now http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Joran and the plate glass window.

Very interesting.

Yet one more example of a person with temperment/behavioral issues that has grown accustomed to disregarding law and social ethics.

ma....please expound on the other "temperament/behavioral issues"...with sources if applicable.

thank you.

[dl3fan]

If you go to www.al.com then click on special report by Nat's pic then click on photos from search for NH  you will see an aerial of HI and how the pools of the hotels are set way back from beach.  Would explain, possibly, why MB kids by pool couldn't hear anything from beach.  

Sorry, I tried to cut and paste link but wouldn't work.

Not that it makes a big difference, but is that the Holiday in (the main hotel you see in the pic)?  It says "Holliday in at the top right???" Is it the hotel above the main white one there???

i took it that the holiday inn was at the top - the one that looked like 2 individual bldgs side by side.  Perhaps a local could tell us.  I've never seen a HI as elaborate as the hotel at the bottom.

[Daniel]

But the prime and only suspects were released for ten days, plenty of time to destroy all forensic evidence and the VDS home was not even searched until their second arrests.

Yes. That doesn't make Aruban police look good, but until that point those people weren't even suspects and there was no serious indication of foul play yet.

The FBI brought divers at the beginning and they would not use them, refused to allow them to search.

From what I read, the Aruban police simply didn't know where to start. The island may be small, but searching a random part of the surrounding ocean would still be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

There are 200 Dutch marines sitting on the island and no searches being conducted locally.  Geraldo *ugh* even asked their commander if they would help and he said no.  I have to ask why?

I think they *did* help search! Along with the Aruban police, the Holloways and over 2,000 locals. That's what I read in Dutch papers. At any rate, those marines are there to chase drug traffickers and to have a local military presence. They have their own duties and responsibilities and they under Dutch, not Aruban command.

BTW, we have a lower crime rate than much of the EU, especially Great Britain's stats come to mind.

I think that's only true for some major cities. I don't know crimes stats by heart but I do know that incarceration rates in the US are ten times higher than in Holland, e.g.

No solution, no body, no evidence.  A legal system is only as good as those enforcing it and in this case it just reeks of a cover up.

Why? It's not the task or purpose of the judiciary to feed the press; the mere fact that you (and we) are very curious does not entitle us to any information that could hurt the investigation or the names, reputations and personal safety of innocent people. Aruba and the Netherlands are not mediacracies like the US is, we have different priorities. The fact that you hear very little does not mean that little is being done - your own FBI is saying that local authorities are doing a thorough job. When the trials start (if it comes to that), you'll get to hear the whole story as the DA presents his case to the judge. Until that time, they'll do their work in relative silence.

BTW, Americans in general have never deluded themselves that we have any friends in the EU as one of its main reasons for being is to challenge the US politically and economically.

Most EU members have always been loyal allies of the US and that is certainly true for the Netherlands. We're in Afghanistan, we're in Iraq, we were in Serbia.

EU members, along with Japan, are also the largest contributors to the post-war US wealth by trading valuable goods and materials for inherently worthless US dollars [soapbox on](the US is the world's only nation that can print virtually unlimited quantities of its own currency without risk of inflation, and have them accepted globally, because the USD became the world's trade and reserve currency when it was still backed by gold, and had to remain so after Nixon unilaterally closed the gold window. The US has grossly abused that privilege ever since and the ironic thing is that this borrowed wealth has since served to support the arrogant notion that the US is 'the greatest nation on Earth'. It will only be so until the rest of the world decides that it no longer wishes to support the US economy that way)[/soapbox off].

but in this instance we are the victims and it is an American who is missing and about whom so very little has been done, our offers to help rejected and our own LE blocked from any participation.

That just is not true. I think the Arubans have been forthcoming wherever possible, they've cooperated closely with the FBI officers, and, frankly I think they've also been quite tolerant and understanding of Beth and Jug, whose actions may well have interfered with the investigations. Even just confronting an otherwise unsuspecting Vandersloot family may have been a stupid thing to do.

We know there is no friendship there, never has been really unless we were paying for things

That's a ridiculous statement. I understand your feeling but it's untrue and plain sentimental. The American people (though not necessarily their leaders) are well liked and admired all over the world. However, Americans tend to know much less about what's happening in the world than the world knows about the US, and Americans are never afraid to show their ignorance of international affairs. That's true in these forums too, where Americans have been making countless assumptions and accusations that just are not true, or were uncalled for. In the US, particularly since 9/11, it's not-done to question the nation's values and beliefs or to be critical of the government's military actions, and some of you seem genuinely surprised or even get mad when others, people from abroad, don't play along. I heartily agree with the G.B. Shaw quote that someone posted on the other forum and that defined patriotism as the belief that your nation is superior because you were born in it. That's all it really is. There are countries that are wealthier, healthier, safer, more free, more generous, more inventive, better educated or more righteous than the US. Americans have every right to be proud of their nation, just like people elsewhere in the world are of their own nations - but it would become them if they'd stop bragging that they are "better" and expect the rest of the world (that they barely know) to agree - or even bully them into agreement.

[~TAZ_MAN~]

New info on Riehl site now http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Joran and the plate glass window.

Very interesting.

Yet one more example of a person with temperment/behavioral issues that has grown accustomed to disregarding law and social ethics.

ma....please expound on the other "temperament/behavioral issues"...with sources if applicable.

thank you.

she can use the source i just posted where joran threatened someone with a knife.  I think thats sufficient.

[cast]

New info on Riehl site now http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/

Joran and the plate glass window.

Very interesting.

Yet one more example of a person with temperment/behavioral issues that has grown accustomed to disregarding law and social ethics.

Thats a nice way of calling him a sociopath.

This report comes from a very reliable and objective source in Aruba.
Not worth telling if you cannot name the source. Marked unconfirmed, rumor, gossip.

[WonderWoman]

I'd sure like to think most parents would help someone in a search for their missing child, particularly when their son was one of the last 3 know people to be seen with her.

I think that's the key here.  I try to put myself in their position, and I can definitely see me going there in the middle of the night, no question.  But I cannot picture ANYONE reacting to my hysteria/tears/emotions the way the VDS family did.  And let's forget about Joran's attitude for a minute...it just seems like the family would have reacted to them differently.  And if they had been more helpful/caring/empathetic, the Holloway/Twitty group would not have had the attitude they did....if they did.  

And by the way, how come we believe they even HAD an attitude when we weren't there???

Because Jug just said tonight that some of his friends were being confrontational.

He did, however, say that they became that way after JVDS kept insisting to Joran that he say nothing because "this isn't America".  I think that would p-ss me off too if I went there to find my daughter expecting the last person seen with her to be helpful.  I know that if someone came to my door (no matter how late it is) looking for their missing daughter and my son and I are both innocent of wrongdoing, I would never advise my son to say nothing.  I would EXPECT him to be more than helpful.  And, if my son were the last person seen with her, had kissed her or made out with her or whatever, would it not be the right thing to do (and out of respect for the girl) to be the first one to volunteer in searching the next day?

Dragonfly-

I do believe the America comment was said due to the vigilante behavior of the friends immediate accusation

i.e "because you and your friends were the last ones with her, and now she's lost because of you a$$holes"  (rumor?)

[Lausa]

Being and oldfart and observing more that anything ...can anyone give "ARUBAGIRL" temp.  Flyspray authority or something like it.

She has taking a shelacking for attempting be be informative for this group and yet has to put up with all the BS bashing of the differences of her country to the US .

My hat is off to her for simply staying here andlputting up with it.  If we could clone her 100 fold  we would get answers.

:CLAPS HANDS:  OldFart, I like you!

[WonderWoman]

WonderWoman

I think its apparent that whatever happened, the chances of finding the truth have been severly altered by Jug and his friends

Or Joran and his friends!!

Exactly, they are no better than those they accuse.

[cast]

I have to agree that Jug and his Alabama posse may have gone a long way in preventing the truth from ever coming out. I don't blame him or his friends for their suspicion and their frustration -- I myself would have had a hard time controlling myself, and it would have taken a lot to prevent me from shaking Joran until he told me what really happened.


However, the best way to get someone to confess is not by accusing them and being "confrontational" (Jug's word). That's how you get someone to come up with a different story and stick with it, guilty or innocent.

On second thought, I think the fault lies with the Aruba police, who should have taken over the questioning themselves and prevented any interaction between the Twittys and the vdSloots.

I'm not crying coverup... just a police department who didn't take Natalee's disappearance very seriously in the first hours.

I totally agree la_cavalière. And Jug on Fox News throwing out names of people in high places have gotten them nowhere that we know of. With Jug its all about his friends, his friends.