Lively Case Discussion #509 8/9 - 8/10/2006

[A's Fever]

WATERSHED MOMENT:  Following the statement that was retracted on 6/11/06.  What happened?  The K2 and J2 seem to be dividing and the glue used in the automobile is no longer coalescing their stories.  In fact, the stories are falling apart, mutating and like amoebas, changing and dividing constantly.

Within days, a man is beheaded.  What happened that involved this man?  What happened that made Joran so sure the body would never be found and he could go on the offensive rather than defensive.

what day were the 2 security guards released?  Maybe the retracted "confession and the suspect is leading us to the body" was supposed to be from one of the security guards but someone didnt get the memo that there was a change of plans.  Then they had to retract that statement because Beth pretty much cleared them.

It seems that K2's and Joran turning on each other sort of coincides with the 2 security guards frame-up falling through doesnt it?

Now that is an interesting thought, Blah.  I had always assumed that the confession was made by Joran or the Kalpoes, but you might be on to something.

[ala_gunslinger]

Just to add a little regarding the work that was done on Deepak's car.  My nephew happened to walk in the house and I show him the part of Deepak's statement about his car.  My nephew does the exact kind of work that Deepak is talking about.  I asked him for his comments and he said the following:

Automotive carpet is formed to the contour of the car and is not glued down it is held in place by the seats and door sill plates. Also there is no reason to remove the carpet to run wires. Even in the most expensive systems there is no reason to remove the carpet.  In order to remove the carpet you must remove the front and rear seats and center console.  Also if you have the same make/model car all the parts are interchangeable.

I am an automotive engineer (over 14 years now) and I agree with your nephew.  Also, there is no reason to use "sealant" as Deepak says unless they are replacing a portion of the floor pan (a section of the sheet metal under the carpet)  Interesting that he says he doesnt know if previous owne had any accidents.  Could a portion of the floor pan have been replaced in Deepaks car?  This would be the only way to truley get rid of any DNA evidence as there are many areas under the carpet that could hold dna evidence.

Does 'no way in hell would they do this, because if this happened the car would be totalled' work for you?

I'm sorry blah, maybe I was not clear.  THe only reason for getting rid of this is to attempt to destroy dna present on the floor pan.

[ala_gunslinger]

Late ya'll!   I got bubba burgers on the grill!

[blah]

I'm sorry blah, maybe I was not clear.  THe only reason for getting rid of this is to attempt to destroy dna present on the floor pan.

anyway you look at it, i doubt part of the floorpan was replaced - too much work.  If anything, the reason for all the glue and sealants would have been to make a carpet work that was not molded specifically for Deepaks car.

[Anna]

Just to add a little regarding the work that was done on Deepak's car.  My nephew happened to walk in the house and I show him the part of Deepak's statement about his car.  My nephew does the exact kind of work that Deepak is talking about.  I asked him for his comments and he said the following:

Automotive carpet is formed to the contour of the car and is not glued down it is held in place by the seats and door sill plates. Also there is no reason to remove the carpet to run wires. Even in the most expensive systems there is no reason to remove the carpet.  In order to remove the carpet you must remove the front and rear seats and center console.  Also if you have the same make/model car all the parts are interchangeable.

I am an automotive engineer (over 14 years now) and I agree with your nephew.  Also, there is no reason to use "sealant" as Deepak says unless they are replacing a portion of the floor pan (a section of the sheet metal under the carpet)  Interesting that he says he doesnt know if previous owne had any accidents.  Could a portion of the floor pan have been replaced in Deepaks car?  This would be the only way to truley get rid of any DNA evidence as there are many areas under the carpet that could hold dna evidence.

maybe they used this "glue and sealants" to cover any trace evidence?

The above is the most likely scenario although I tend to believe the back seat and headliner might have also been replaced.  No way to know of those as probably do not require the glue.

As for replacing the entire car, even in Aruba cars are likely registered using the VIN number.  This is put on various parts and places throughout cars these days as an anti-theft, stripping precaution and it is just about impossible to remove all the different places a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number given by the manufacturer) in all these nooks and crannies.  That is the point of putting them there and in places one cannot access without taking the motor apart, etc.

For this reason I do not think it would have been possible to switch out the entire car.  Blah would probably know about this as would other posters.  You could never find let alone chance all the VIN numbers on the average car without a great deal of trouble and time.

JMO

.

[blah]

Just to add a little regarding the work that was done on Deepak's car.  My nephew happened to walk in the house and I show him the part of Deepak's statement about his car.  My nephew does the exact kind of work that Deepak is talking about.  I asked him for his comments and he said the following:

Automotive carpet is formed to the contour of the car and is not glued down it is held in place by the seats and door sill plates. Also there is no reason to remove the carpet to run wires. Even in the most expensive systems there is no reason to remove the carpet.  In order to remove the carpet you must remove the front and rear seats and center console.  Also if you have the same make/model car all the parts are interchangeable.

I am an automotive engineer (over 14 years now) and I agree with your nephew.  Also, there is no reason to use "sealant" as Deepak says unless they are replacing a portion of the floor pan (a section of the sheet metal under the carpet)  Interesting that he says he doesnt know if previous owne had any accidents.  Could a portion of the floor pan have been replaced in Deepaks car?  This would be the only way to truley get rid of any DNA evidence as there are many areas under the carpet that could hold dna evidence.

maybe they used this "glue and sealants" to cover any trace evidence?

The above is the most likely scenario although I tend to believe the back seat and headliner might have also been replaced.  No way to know of those as probably do not require the glue.

As for replacing the entire car, even in Aruba cars are likely registered using the VIN number.  This is put on various parts and places throughout cars these days as an anti-theft, stripping precaution and it is just about impossible to remove all the different places a VIN (Vehicle Identification Number given by the manufacturer) in all these nooks and crannies.  That is the point of putting them there and in places one cannot access without taking the motor apart, etc.

For this reason I do not think it would have been possible to switch out the entire car.  Blah would probably know about this as would other posters.  You could never find let alone chance all the VIN numbers on the average car without a great deal of trouble and time.

JMO

.

you are correct, last time i checked, it was over 100 places.  Also, there are special rivets that hold the VIN plate to the dashboard in the lower left(drivers side) corner of the windshield.   Only auto manufacturers and people who steal these rivets from auto manufacterers can get their hands on these rivets.

[sandy leiva]

hhi monkeys
ifound this article at todays diario paper under local section

SUCESONAN

Daño na turismo! MUCHANAN ENVOLVI DEN ATRACO RIBA TURISTA

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Recientemente un grupo di hoben a atraca un turista, y esaki a socede na altura di un Highrise Hotel.  E grupo anti social a ranca tas di turista, pero e biaha aki si guardianan di seguridad a reacciona y a logra gara un di e sospechosonan.

   Segun e informe cu lo tabata  trata di un total di 5 mucha, kendenan ta meti den e caso.   Awor cu Recherche tin un di nan deteni, di cual su inicialnan ta W.M. di 20 aña.

HOMBER KIER PA HENDENAN


translation
Ruining our tourism.  Group of youngsters involved in beting up tourist!
(Ornasjestad AAN) recently a group of younsters beat a turist.  This occured in the hights of Highrise Hotel. This group of antisocials then ran after the tourist, however the security guards working there was able to chase and catch one of the youngsters
  According to the information gained it involved 5 youths, all together in this case. W.M. a twenty yr old male was detained.  


  My notes when i tried to click on this article to see if there was more on the case it kept saying this page no longer visible. that is all the info stated in todays diario  wed aug 8 2006 under local info posts.

[SunFreak2]

ALE reported that there was blood in Deepak's car, but that turned out to be chocolate & cleaning fluid.  There was also no trace evidence of Natalee ever being in that car.  No hair, no skin cells, no fingerprints, etc.  The only way we know she was in a silver Honda was b/c of the MB kids.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that Deepak was able to get every drop of blood, hair, etc out of his car.  That would take a lot of time, special equipment and be very conspicuous.  Either he had professional help, ALE fudged samples & results, or there was a different car.

[Appeals]

Only from memory, but weren't the SG's released June 17th?

[klaasend]

hhi monkeys
ifound this article at todays diario paper under local section

SUCESONAN

Daño na turismo! MUCHANAN ENVOLVI DEN ATRACO RIBA TURISTA

ORANJESTAD (AAN): Recientemente un grupo di hoben a atraca un turista, y esaki a socede na altura di un Highrise Hotel.  E grupo anti social a ranca tas di turista, pero e biaha aki si guardianan di seguridad a reacciona y a logra gara un di e sospechosonan.

   Segun e informe cu lo tabata  trata di un total di 5 mucha, kendenan ta meti den e caso.   Awor cu Recherche tin un di nan deteni, di cual su inicialnan ta W.M. di 20 aña.

HOMBER KIER PA HENDENAN


translation
Ruining our tourism.  Group of youngsters involved in beting up tourist!
(Ornasjestad AAN) recently a group of younsters beat a turist.  This occured in the hights of Highrise Hotel. This group of antisocials then ran after the tourist, however the security guards working there was able to chase and catch one of the youngsters
  According to the information gained it involved 5 youths, all together in this case. W.M. a twenty yr old male was detained.  


  My notes when i tried to click on this article to see if there was more on the case it kept saying this page no longer visible. that is all the info stated in todays diario  wed aug 8 2006 under local info posts.

Thanks Sandy - I saw it and gathered what it was about but since I don't read Pap, I wasn't sure.

[klaasend]

ALE reported that there was blood in Deepak's car, but that turned out to be chocolate & cleaning fluid.  There was also no trace evidence of Natalee ever being in that car.  No hair, no skin cells, no fingerprints, etc.  The only way we know she was in a silver Honda was b/c of the MB kids.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that Deepak was able to get every drop of blood, hair, etc out of his car.  That would take a lot of time, special equipment and be very conspicuous.  Either he had professional help, ALE fudged samples & results, or there was a different car.

I vote for different car, or at least the car samples sent to the Netherlands and the FBI were from a different car.

[Appeals]

Sand in the hour glass of computer time has run out.  Carry on monkeys.  You're doing great as usual.

[Tylergal]

ALE reported that there was blood in Deepak's car, but that turned out to be chocolate & cleaning fluid.  There was also no trace evidence of Natalee ever being in that car.  No hair, no skin cells, no fingerprints, etc.  The only way we know she was in a silver Honda was b/c of the MB kids.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that Deepak was able to get every drop of blood, hair, etc out of his car.  That would take a lot of time, special equipment and be very conspicuous.  Either he had professional help, ALE fudged samples & results, or there was a different car.

I always believe cars were traded out.  ALE probably never checked VIN numbers or registration plates on either car, just took their word for it because they knew it was a cover-up and they took the path of least resistance.

[2NJSons_Mom]

WATERSHED MOMENT:  Following the statement that was retracted on 6/11/06.  What happened?  The K2 and J2 seem to be dividing and the glue used in the automobile is no longer coalescing their stories.  In fact, the stories are falling apart, mutating and like amoebas, changing and dividing constantly.

Within days, a man is beheaded.  What happened that involved this man?  What happened that made Joran so sure the body would never be found and he could go on the offensive rather than defensive.

what day were the 2 security guards released?  Maybe the retracted "confession and the suspect is leading us to the body" was supposed to be from one of the security guards but someone didnt get the memo that there was a change of plans.  Then they had to retract that statement because Beth pretty much cleared them.

It seems that K2's and Joran turning on each other sort of coincides with the 2 security guards frame-up falling through doesnt it?

The timeline posted by Sunfreak2 on page 5 or 6 of this thread says they were released on 6/13....same day that van der Straaten questoned Joran....mmmmm..

Great thining, blah.

[Tylergal]

BLAH

great thinking there, squirrely as a fox.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Great thinKing, blah...no edit button....

[blah]

Only from memory, but weren't the SG's released June 17th?

I thought it was the 12th, i'm pretty sure it was a Sunday.  For no apparent reaso  - they were held a few extra days even after it was known that they had nothing to do with the case too.

[San]

ALE reported that there was blood in Deepak's car, but that turned out to be chocolate & cleaning fluid.  There was also no trace evidence of Natalee ever being in that car.  No hair, no skin cells, no fingerprints, etc.  The only way we know she was in a silver Honda was b/c of the MB kids.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that Deepak was able to get every drop of blood, hair, etc out of his car.  That would take a lot of time, special equipment and be very conspicuous.  Either he had professional help, ALE fudged samples & results, or there was a different car.

Could quite possibly be all three.  We have the highest people in the government involved in this coverup.  They can make anything happen.

[Tylergal]

Aruba releases two security guards
Had been held in case of missing teen

Monday, June 13, 2005 Posted: 11:32 PM EDT (0332 GMT)
   

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Authorities in Aruba have released two security guards arrested in the disappearance of an Alabama teen late last month.

Abraham Jones, 28, and Mickey John, 30, who work at a beachfront hotel near where Natalee Holloway was staying, were arrested in the case on June 5 but were never charged.

Holloway, 18, was discovered missing May 30. Three men remain in custody in the case -- none of them formally charged as yet.

Police have identified the three men still in custody as brothers Satish Kalpoe, 18, and Depak Kalpoe, 21, and their friend, Joran Van Der Sloot, 17, the son of an Aruban judge. The attorneys for each have said their client claims innocence.

The three young men told police they took Holloway to a beach after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub with her early May 30, when she was last seen. They said they returned her to her hotel not long afterward.

Holloway, from the Birmingham, Alabama, suburb of Mountain Brook, was in Aruba with classmates who were celebrating their graduation from high school.

On Sunday, law enforcement sources close to the investigation said a substance found in a Honda seized after three of the men were arrested Thursday is not blood, based on a sample analyzed at an FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia.

On Monday, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber said Aruba's government "is doing the utmost" to find Holloway.

"We hope that we will find Natalee Holloway alive, and are still praying that there is nothing bad that has happened to her," Oduber said Sunday.

Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, told The Associated Press on Sunday that she believes the three young men still being held in the case "know what happened to her." She also said the two security guards should be released. (Full story)

While expressing "deep concern" over Holloway's fate, Oduber also sought to reassure the media that the island is safe for visitors, noting that more than 60 percent of Aruba's income comes from tourism and more than 45,000 Arubans work in that industry.

"That's why we make an appeal to our local press and international press that the government and everybody involved will do the job," he said.

The search for Holloway was scaled back during the weekend, with teams venturing out only after receiving credible tips and coast guard patrols off shore.

CNN's Karl Penhaul contributed to this report.

[oldfart]

Gota run for a bit..

If anyone comes up with even a partial answer to my ? on page 8
as to the date Deepak was summoned to the police station at Bubali
I would love to know..

I have a gut feeling this it was within 2 days of Natalee being missing.
We know they made statements within the 1st few days

TIA

SeeeYaaByeee

Think it was May 31 or June 1.  

I have a work in progress timeline for statement info here (wish I could do it on here too but no edit option:

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4534.0

THanks Shizaru

and from your timeline at BFN

Day before Bubali interviews (5/30 or 5/31?): Deepak vacuums his car, allegedly because Joran had almost fallen in the water, and then sat down in the car with sand on his shorts and legs  (D 6/10)

MY point is if Joran got out of the car and walked away with Natalee at the beach. and no one picked him up..   How did he get in the car with all the SAND on him?
A simple follow-up question in here MIGHT have made a big difference... but NOOOO that could not happen