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Author Topic: Perfect way to make joran to confess to the crime  (Read 24872 times)
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skitz
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2005, 01:37:28 AM »

Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "skitz"
If it was just a general statement that they saw a security guard helping her, what made the police focus on these two specifically
Quote


Well, according to Mickey John on Greta this evening, when he was arrested and taken from his home, the info he received was that the (3)boys said the "missing girl" stumbled out of the car, and a BLACK security guard in a black shirt & black pants helped her inside.  Was it just a coincidence that the (2) former security guards for that particular hotel were black?  Interesting question to say the least...


Right. And if they were "former" security guards and supposedly neither one of them were at HI that night, why did police focus in on them? Sounds like they could have just pulled their names out of a hat to me!
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roxyluv
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2005, 08:31:39 AM »

Quote from: "skitz"
Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "skitz"
If it was just a general statement that they saw a security guard helping her, what made the police focus on these two specifically
Quote


Well, according to Mickey John on Greta this evening, when he was arrested and taken from his home, the info he received was that the (3)boys said the "missing girl" stumbled out of the car, and a BLACK security guard in a black shirt & black pants helped her inside.  Was it just a coincidence that the (2) former security guards for that particular hotel were black?  Interesting question to say the least...


Right. And if they were "former" security guards and supposedly neither one of them were at HI that night, why did police focus in on them? Sounds like they could have just pulled their names out of a hat to me!


Well from what I read they were spotted in front of the hotel

http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am07jun05.pdf

There was also alot of witnesses who said the two were known to try to pick up tourist and bum smokes.
They or one of them was a the soul festival that Natalee was at.

While I do not believe these two are  guilty of anything it seems to me that had enough to eveidence to at least check them out.
As for the interview with Greta, BS.  
I also found this video of  person who was on vacation (Emily Jones )who was harrassed by one of the guard two weeks before Natalee was there.

http://www.nbc13.com/missinginaruba/index.html

It is under video at the bottom of the page "woman recognizes suspect.
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phl
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2005, 12:38:32 PM »

Quote from: "rkymtncjngrl"
I'd have to say "Let Beth and Jug and Dave and Robin" at em!!! I think they could persuade him to answer some questions. Especially if he was taken out of his surroundings. Wink


I thought they already did that on their first night on the island. Their attitudes, while understandable, are far from helping things.
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EdwinW
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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2005, 01:14:36 PM »

Quote from: "tennisnet2002"
Why don't they say they found the body and make joran think they actually did and then see if he says anything that might incriminate himself. That might be an easy way to make him talk.


I know you are probably not gonna like it, but I will try it anyway ... Wink

Have you thought of the possibility that Joran van der S. maybe has nothing to do with the disappearance of NH ?
No confession, no evidence, no body.

Just my two Euro cents ...
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thirdstrike
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« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2005, 01:30:05 PM »

Quote from: "EdwinW"
Quote from: "tennisnet2002"
Why don't they say they found the body and make joran think they actually did and then see if he says anything that might incriminate himself. That might be an easy way to make him talk.


I know you are probably not gonna like it, but I will try it anyway ... Wink

Have you thought of the possibility that Joran van der S. maybe has nothing to do with the disappearance of NH ?
No confession, no evidence, no body.

Just my two Euro cents ...


OK, for arguements sake...

If this was the case, why would he need to lie about the facts surrounding the last time he had seen the missing girl?  Why involve others in that lie?

Wouldn't have just been easier to just tell the truth initially, no matter what anyone else thought?  Even if it meant initial suspicion on his part, it would all check out later, and his innocence would have been proven.  Now, he's placed himself in a position where as even if he was not involved, he's word regarding such has been damaged...
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Wolf®
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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2005, 02:10:35 PM »

He has placed himself in somewhat of a position alright...

that could pay off in big bucks if he is playing his cards right...a once in a lifetime oppurtunity..

If he is either innocent or guilty but it cant be proven due to lack of evidence..this 17 yr. old kid could be set for life with proceeds from books..movies..talk shows...

Hell like it or not...the media has made him famous now...If I were in his shoes..and I knew I was innocent but the Police thought I was their man..I'd play it to the hilt..I'd lie..I'd change my story..and whatever else I had to do to stretch the book (that would be written later)..out to at least 12 chapters..I'd even dedicate the book to U.S. Media for making me as big as they did...

Knowing that the judicial system works about as well as a $2.00 WalMart product..I'd prolly give my child the same advice about saying nothing..a 17 yr. old can get in deeper with the more they say..especially when suspicion is already lingering...

Joran is a very small avenue in a very big investigation...dont hold your breath waiting for more to come from him...
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EdwinW
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2005, 02:32:52 PM »

Quote from: "Wolf®"
He has placed himself in somewhat of a position alright...

that could pay off in big bucks if he is playing his cards right...a once in a lifetime oppurtunity..

If he is either innocent or guilty but it cant be proven due to lack of evidence..this 17 yr. old kid could be set for life with proceeds from books..movies..talk shows...


True. He made it very difficult for himself by telling two stories. That made him suspicious to many people. His father Paul does not have a clue why he told the story about the hotel.

Quote from: "Wolf®"

Knowing that the judicial system works about as well as a $2.00 WalMart product..I'd prolly give my child the same advice about saying nothing..a 17 yr. old can get in deeper with the more they say..especially when suspicion is already lingering...


I guess you are an export about this legal system Very Happy

One of the main concerns is that there is so much information without a good background about this system. One of the most frustrating things is, the police does not say that much to the media during any investigation. Unfortunately that will feed more and more speculations in the media as we now can see ...

Quote from: "Wolf®"
Joran is a very small avenue in a very big investigation...dont hold your breath waiting for more to come from him...


I wouldn't put my life on that. Life is full of surprises ... Wink
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herself
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2005, 02:36:50 PM »

What a relief to finally hear someone express the possibility that Juran could be innocent.  We have been convicting him without knowing all the facts.  It could be just like they are telling it and that is why they can not BREAK him.
They picked her up.
Juran and Natalee were left off on beach.
Satish and his brother went home.
Possiblity that Paul VDS discovers Juran missing from home.  Phones him, Juran tells him he is at beach.  Father gets furious and tells the little idiot to stay there and goes to pick him up.  Juran calls Satish to tell him he has a ride home.
Natalee walks back to Holliday or stays on the beach. Or goes swimming and drowns.
Juran goes to school next day.  Brags about his new conquest.  Headmaster finds out girl is missing.  Calls mother and tells her to tell Juran to shut up.  Father calls Juran and tells him girl is missing and he is the last one to see her alive.  He is in trouble he had better keep his mouth shut.  Juran concocts tale with friends to cover their asses.
I have a hard time beleiving that a 17 year old could commit a crime and function the next day.
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Wolf®
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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2005, 02:54:12 PM »

Quote from: "EdwinW"
I guess you are an export about this legal system Very Happy


It doesnt take an expert of the legal system..in any country...to know that a 17 yr. old is no match for full grown seasoned investigators..I would venture to say that most parents would have their 17 yr. old say nothing and let their lawyer do their talking for them..
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EdwinW
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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2005, 03:23:06 PM »

Quote from: "Wolf®"
Quote from: "EdwinW"
I guess you are an export about this legal system Very Happy


It doesnt take an expert of the legal system..in any country...to know that a 17 yr. old is no match for full grown seasoned investigators..I would venture to say that most parents would have their 17 yr. old say nothing and let their lawyer do their talking for them..


True .... but there is something I forgot to mention. You may think that a lawyer is allowed to say anything about an investigation for his client, but that is not the case. With many investigations a lawyer can only give some brief information to the press. There are even situations (maybe that is the case with NH) a lawyer is not even allowed to give any information at all. All information is kept secret to avoid information will flow to people who may be involved with the disappearance. The police do not want to expose the information they now have.
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pkrimier
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« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2005, 03:49:38 PM »

I am new here so if this has been mentioned please excuse...
Our justice system is very different from Aruba for sure but it saying that it is legal for the police to lie to a suspect in hopes of getting a .confession..I am pretty sure...
Also the tacitc of presenting different scenarios to a suspect and giving them something to think about or possible out for the crime they have committed is used all the time here in the US.
Also I believe had the boys been questioned and held sooner the public would not be so outraged at the Arubin authorities.
Not to mention the chief of police who is related/god father to one certainly lends to the blief that there is a cover up.
I do not blame the media for creating this kind of doubt ...it is the authorities themselves and the way they have handled this case from day one.
I am sorry to say I also believe had not Natalee's mom come to Arubia nothing would have been done ...."just another missing tourist"..I think would have been the attitude.
In saying all this I believe in my heart that she is dead and it may have been an accident and that the boys went to Joran's Dad and he told them
what to do to cover their butts.
There is no reason whatsoever for them to have lied and changed their stories if they were indeed innocent.
They would have been believed IMO if they had told the truth ...we all know now, because of the video, that they never brought her back to the
HI.
There would have been no need to have told that story except that they were trying to blame others for their crime.
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« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2005, 04:11:40 PM »

I see what you are saying..that is pretty much standard practice in most countries..the lawyer gives brief statements and advises the client throughout the process..but is not allowed to discuss any of the details of a case...he /she is also there to insure the questioning goes along within the clients rights..

I just think it is better in most cases for the lawyer to be present before any questioning is done..whether it be in the police station or the livingroom of the Van der Sloot's home..and with all due respect.. Natalee's family should not have been a part of ANY of that questioning...at either location..it is a police matter

I would consider them too attached to the missing person to even be allowed to go to the Van der Sloot's home upon their arrival in Aruba..it seems to go against the grain when it comes to proper procedures...seeing that the police was with them..one would think the police would have made them stay far away from the investigation..or even the early stages of one..

They could have done more damage than good...
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roxyluv
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« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2005, 05:26:48 PM »

I agree 100%.
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hugo de groot
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« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2005, 05:40:02 PM »

Schout bij nacht Karel Doorman's legendarische laatste woorden toen hij de geallieerde vloot de Java zee instuurde om de Japanse overmacht te confronteren en suicidaal de ondergang tegemoet te varen om de vaderlandsche eer te verdedigen
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JstAnthrTrvlr
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« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2005, 03:16:24 AM »

Quote from: "herself"
What a relief to finally hear someone express the possibility that Juran could be innocent.  We have been convicting him without knowing all the facts.  It could be just like they are telling it and that is why they can not BREAK him.
They picked her up.
Juran and Natalee were left off on beach.
Satish and his brother went home.
Possiblity that Paul VDS discovers Juran missing from home.  Phones him, Juran tells him he is at beach.  Father gets furious and tells the little idiot to stay there and goes to pick him up.  Juran calls Satish to tell him he has a ride home.
Natalee walks back to Holliday or stays on the beach. Or goes swimming and drowns.
Juran goes to school next day.  Brags about his new conquest.  Headmaster finds out girl is missing.  Calls mother and tells her to tell Juran to shut up.  Father calls Juran and tells him girl is missing and he is the last one to see her alive.  He is in trouble he had better keep his mouth shut.  Juran concocts tale with friends to cover their asses.
I have a hard time beleiving that a 17 year old could commit a crime and function the next day.


MOST 17 yr olds COULDN'T function normally after committing such a crime; however, remember Sarah Johnson - the 16 yr old girl who was recently found guilty of killing both of her own PARENTS with a shotgun at close range (http://www.courttv.com/trials/johnson/)?  There are those individuals who are fundamentally flawed in such a way that science has yet to discover the genesis. In her case, and possibly JVDS - if he's in fact guilty - this is called ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER. Sarah Johnson was 'normal' enough on the surface to fool everyone at home and school and was known as a good student with friends - like Juran. However, underneath the surface was this raging alter-ego that rendered her capable of committing the most heinous crime, which she coolly denies responsibility for to this day. I'm not saying JVDS IS guilty, just that if he IS guilty, APD would make some sense out of his current demeanor as we know it.

JMO,
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MominTN
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« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2005, 12:55:44 PM »

Quote from: "EdwinW"
Quote from: "Wolf®"
Quote from: "EdwinW"
I guess you are an export about this legal system Very Happy


It doesnt take an expert of the legal system..in any country...to know that a 17 yr. old is no match for full grown seasoned investigators..I would venture to say that most parents would have their 17 yr. old say nothing and let their lawyer do their talking for them..


True .... but there is something I forgot to mention. You may think that a lawyer is allowed to say anything about an investigation for his client, but that is not the case. With many investigations a lawyer can only give some brief information to the press. There are even situations (maybe that is the case with NH) a lawyer is not even allowed to give any information at all. All information is kept secret to avoid information will flow to people who may be involved with the disappearance. The police do not want to expose the information they now have.


O'Reilly refuted this last night on tv and said he had studied up on it.  He said the only time the attorney can't say anything is if the case is being tried before the grand jury.
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MominTN
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« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2005, 01:01:24 PM »

What I cannot figure out is why the two black men were so quickly arrested from the false story told by Joran and Kalpoes.  There has to be many black security guards on the island.  It seems to me that there were other people in on this made-up story.  The police should question anyone that gave evidence against these black men to determine if they know the truth about what happened to Natalee.
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