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Author Topic: RBN# 31 6/28/05 Tuesday  (Read 198918 times)
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writergal
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« Reply #140 on: June 28, 2005, 12:53:43 PM »

I think a lot of people's frustration with this whole situation goes back to the first two weeks of the investigation, when the Aruban authorities kept making announcements that the "case would be solved within 24 hours," or that it would be solved "tomorrow." I still can't figure out why they set themselves up this way.
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momto5
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« Reply #141 on: June 28, 2005, 12:54:06 PM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Compananzi"
Edmond of Top 95.1 commenting on the Nat. dissapearance, casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.    He feels the amount of focus of the Arubian LE is too focused on the 2 suspect.  He reports that the tips of 2 men taking Natalee by force is not being followed up?  Reports of Hotel employee is also confirming this but the LE is not following up.  The theory of possible a second party sequestering Nat is possible. Another talker is mentioned perhaps a tag team of a second may have taken Nat.  Counter argument said that he can't believe a 17 yr would have enough life experience to have a well thoughout crime.  He does not believe Joran has the character to pull it off.


see this is the problem. It is KNOWN FOR A FACT that Natalee got in that car. There would have been something of her in there, hair or prints, God forbid DNA. But what was it, 9 or 10 days later when it was searched. THERE WAS NOTHING there. The car must have been cleaned. I know deepaks mother told GVS how much he thought of his car, but don't you find that little tidbit thrown in the conversation interesting? This is just another indication of poor LE actions, by not checking the last known witnessed place Natalee was, for evidence.
I still think daddy has a lot to do with where she is now, somehow. Then again it would not have been hard or have taken very long for deepak and joran to have put her in a dump, pond or ocean. This crime did not require a master criminal.

I said it earlier but Ill say it again. I think they really screwed the pooch in this investigation by not taking the car, and clothing the boys were wearing on day 1. If Joran and the brothers did anything there was nothing genius about it. Anyone can get away with a crime when your given more then a week to get rid of the evidence.
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Scott
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« Reply #142 on: June 28, 2005, 12:57:03 PM »

Quote from: "Loren"
Time for Holland to clean house in Aruba. Bring in new judges and detectives and a brand new Chief of Police. The economy of Holland is riding on it as well. Do they have the economy to support all the unemployed that will hit Holland's shore from Aruba when Americans boycott?



By ARTHUR MAX

   AMSTERDAM, June 28 (AP) -- The disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba is bringing attention to the Caribbean island at a time when the Aruban community in the Netherlands already is under scrutiny by the Dutch government.

Dutch media paid scant attention to Natalee Holloway's disappearance
until the arrest last week of Paul van der Sloot, the Dutch father of one
of the suspects and a senior legal official who is training to become a
judge. Van der Sloot was released on Sunday.

But Arubans here have been following the news closely. Their concern is
that the case could precipitate a sharp decline in tourism to the tropical
island off the Venezuelan coast -- a Dutch protectorate -- resulting in
economic hardship and spurring a wave of migration to Holland, at just the
wrong time for the 120,000 immigrants already here.

"Everyone is talking a lot about it," said Henry Breeveld, the director
of a Rotterdam welfare organization for Antilles and Aruba immigrants.

In an effort to curb crime and unemployment, the Dutch government has
proposed deporting young people from the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba who neither have jobs nor are in school.

"People come to Holland whenever the economy is bad or when they feel
insecure," Breeveld said.

The government proposal, which came before Holloway's disappearance,
faces legal challenges because people from the islands -- former colonies
that remain part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands -- are Dutch citizens.
Islanders say the move is discriminatory and have vowed to fight it in
court.

But there is little security here for newcomers following the expulsion
measure proposed last April by the conservative government of Prime
Minister Jan Peter Balkenende. Under the plan, young immigrants would have three months to find a job, enroll in studies or return home.

The proposal, which is not in effect, was denounced by the Antillean
parliament. Prime Minister Etienne Ys failed to budge Balkenende when he
came to The Hague earlier this month, and left the meeting acknowledging he was "angry."

The Netherlands colonized the Antilles islands in the 17th century as
part of the Dutch West Indies. The Antilles' colonial status ended in 1954
when the islands became an autonomous country in the Kingdom of the
Netherlands. Aruba broke away from the other five islands in 1986.

The relationship with their former colonial power is sensitive. Some
residents favor a complete break from the distant Dutch kingdom, while
others warn that economic and political chaos would ensue.

In the recent conflict, Arubans say The Hague has no right to expel them
because they are equal citizens under Dutch law. The government says its
case is based on the fact that Dutchmen require permits to take residency
in the kingdom's Caribbean states.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said Antilleans are mistaken if they
think the Netherlands "is the land of milk and honey." Those who have no
chance at home won't have one in Holland either, she said.

The Netherlands, once a haven for refugees, has grown sensitive to
immigration since the 2002 election, when the populist politician Pim
Fortuyn urged the country to close its borders to new arrivals, blaming
them for rising crime and unemployment.

Though Fortuyn directed his ire at Muslims, jobless and disadvantaged
youth from the Caribbean were swept up in the anti-immigrant mood. Fortuyn was assassinated days before the election, but his call to limit
immigration has been embraced by mainstream parties.

Antillean youths are often blamed for high crime rates and violence in
the major cities, although statistics show that only a small minority are
truly problematic.
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Professor
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« Reply #143 on: June 28, 2005, 01:00:36 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Professor,

Our discussion on this topic had nothing to do with Fox ratings.  It has to do with a possibly important fact in the case.


No, Your statement appeared to have everything to do with ratings. What you seemed to say was (paraphrased), I don't know why Fox didn't jump on this to scoop the competition, or why the competition didn't jump on this to scoop Fox. The apparent implication being that since this revelation (van der Straten) would have been so good for ratings, and since nobody jumped on it, it must not be true.

Am I missing something here?



No, No, No...what I said was if this fact were true it would've been reported over and over and over.  That hasn't happened.  Which leads me to believe it's Geraldo BS.


It may have been that the Twittys didn't want him to air this revelation, so early in the case. Better to hold it over van der Straten's head, to get cooperation. There is a delicate balance that the Twittys have to maintain, and I am sure that they have made this clear to Fox News. I listen as closely to what Beth Twitty DOESN'T SAY as I do to what she DOES SAY.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #144 on: June 28, 2005, 01:01:16 PM »

.. I hope they find Nat with the sophistated equipment.  So that this is over and done with.  I do not know what is going one with the Family , we understand the pressure to continue the search, Me too if something like this happens till you give up..It depends on the person but I would also stay around, there is a lot of pain. ... I think either one or 2 more months but if so, they can leave with the peace of mind that they did all possible they could...we tried all the best.. the family has persistance and patience.. we need compasion of their emotions.  

Blah blah blah, the difference in justice systems, and we need to send a msg to the Aruba, that we slow down with this story so that we can continue our regular work, elections is coming,  we welcome int. press..and continue the good job.  Be aware of sensationalist reporters, and take with a grain of salt, ..I believe that there are intelligent Americans..

I think in Aruba there is people that know, and should come forward. Thanks Harry.
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trikand_123
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« Reply #145 on: June 28, 2005, 01:03:26 PM »

I do not post much in here. But it is rather unbelievable how this case attract so much people. It is also unbelievable how can young life "dissappear" in such way.

Lot of theories were presented in this forum, however I did not notice one i believe rather important issue, which in cas of jorans involvement may play quite significant role.

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.

On the other hand, all such conversation may end up in terrible shame if joran is proven innocent. However, nothing yet points to that so I just wanted to add some comments.
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Compananzi
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« Reply #146 on: June 28, 2005, 01:04:03 PM »

Quote from: "writergal"
I think a lot of people's frustration with this whole situation goes back to the first two weeks of the investigation, when the Aruban authorities kept making announcements that the "case would be solved within 24 hours," or that it would be solved "tomorrow." I still can't figure out why they set themselves up this way.


Yea I concur, but the Texas search team said the same thing.. like they gonna find Nat with in a day.. Why they say that?
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ajmac57
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« Reply #147 on: June 28, 2005, 01:04:54 PM »

Quote from: "writergal"
I think a lot of people's frustration with this whole situation goes back to the first two weeks of the investigation, when the Aruban authorities kept making announcements that the "case would be solved within 24 hours," or that it would be solved "tomorrow." I still can't figure out why they set themselves up this way.


I bet that is what they are use to. I wonder how many people go missing every year, and show up a few days latter. They just did not want to go home, found a new boy/girl friend. Had a fight with their husband/wife boy/girl friend ect.
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absolut
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« Reply #148 on: June 28, 2005, 01:05:25 PM »

Don't forget that President Bush is live tonight at 8pm, the talking heads on all 3 news networks will be covering that first tonight. So unless there is real breaking news going into the 7pm hour that will be it probably til Greta at 10. Also may be the reason she has been so quiet today.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #149 on: June 28, 2005, 01:05:48 PM »

Quote from: "boxopen"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
... If they can use this tactic, they could pick up daddy VDS again and then  tell joran his dad confessed to hurting Natalee and see what he does/says, or vice versa. I think it would very interesting. If that didn't work, they could always say a "peripheral" witness saw something. Also, tell the sateesh that deepak admitted to hurting her, and see what you get...
I'm curious about what is your "end of episod" if after that you cannot obtain any confession.
What you do next? Are they innocent or should "we" implement another "tactic" to bring the result "we" want?


First of all, I never used the word "we' so the sarcasm is duly noted and disregarded.
If these guys don't confess, Natalee's body is not found, and valuable forensic evidence has been lost because of Aruban LE negligence, then I don't see any other outcome but the guys will be released. Because the LE did such a poor, sloppy job--the boys name will never be cleared. Just as there is no known evidence of their guilt, there is NO evidence of their innocence Should the guys be released, the Aruban LE will always be known for its ineptness, that is a fact. But, I don't think for one minute, Natalee's family will let this rest. They will never stop looking for their daughter, or trying to find out what happened to her. The truth will come out one way or the other. If it is these guys, it will come out. If another door opens, it will be gone threw and followed until the end.

having said all that, I am basing my post on what we know now. It may come to light that Aruban LE has done an excellent job and that will be noted then. But for now, the only fact we have is Natalee got in a car with joran and the bros kalpoe, and that makes them suspects numero uno
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roxyluv
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« Reply #150 on: June 28, 2005, 01:07:18 PM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "writergal"
I think a lot of people's frustration with this whole situation goes back to the first two weeks of the investigation, when the Aruban authorities kept making announcements that the "case would be solved within 24 hours," or that it would be solved "tomorrow." I still can't figure out why they set themselves up this way.


Yea I concur, but the Texas search team said the same thing.. like they gonna find Nat with in a day.. Why they say that?


Yep!! It's easier to lay the blame than share it I guess.
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absolut
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« Reply #151 on: June 28, 2005, 01:07:21 PM »

Greta's Blog, more MONKEY!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160904,00.html
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #152 on: June 28, 2005, 01:07:36 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Professor,

Our discussion on this topic had nothing to do with Fox ratings.  It has to do with a possibly important fact in the case.


No, Your statement appeared to have everything to do with ratings. What you seemed to say was (paraphrased), I don't know why Fox didn't jump on this to scoop the competition, or why the competition didn't jump on this to scoop Fox. The apparent implication being that since this revelation (van der Straten) would have been so good for ratings, and since nobody jumped on it, it must not be true.

Am I missing something here?



No, No, No...what I said was if this fact were true it would've been reported over and over and over.  That hasn't happened.  Which leads me to believe it's Geraldo BS.


It may have been that the Twittys didn't want him to air this revelation, so early in the case. Better to hold it over van der Straten's head, to get cooperation. There is a delicate balance that the Twittys have to maintain, and I am sure that they have made this clear to Fox News. I listen as closely to what Beth Twitty DOESN'T SAY as I do to what she DOES SAY.


There isn't a reporter down there who would hold back on a story like this, even for the Twitty's.  As I said before, this kind of tidbit is the stuff cases like this are made of!   It could be it's been covered up and no one has been able to confirm it...but, that's doubtful too...this is an easy thing to get confirmation on.  I've sent this question to someone I know covering the case.  I'll see what she says.
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Professor
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« Reply #153 on: June 28, 2005, 01:08:11 PM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
.. I hope they find Nat with the sophistated equipment.  So that this is over and done with.  I do not know what is going one with the Family , we understand the pressure to continue the search, Me too if something like this happens till you give up..It depends on the person but I would also stay around, there is a lot of pain. ... I think either one or 2 more months but if so, they can leave with the peace of mind that they did all possible they could...we tried all the best.. the family has persistance and patience.. we need compasion of their emotions.  

Blah blah blah, the difference in justice systems, and we need to send a msg to the Aruba, that we slow down with this story so that we can continue our regular work, elections is coming,  we welcome int. press..and continue the good job.  Be aware of sensationalist reporters, and take with a grain of salt, ..I believe that there are intelligent Americans..

I think in Aruba there is people that know, and should come forward. Thanks Harry.


So far, the only Aruban who has come forward on his own was Steven Croes, and then it was only to give a false alibi to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. I think we are dealing with the "closing of the ranks" right now. Joran's friends and acquaintances know that the Twittys will be going home some day, but that they'll have to live with their neighbors for a lot longer time. Call it "island mentality," if you will. An us-and-them attitude toward the outside world. Tourists and camera crews come and go, but neighbors stay neighbors for generations and generations.
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goon squad
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« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2005, 01:08:44 PM »

<<what I said was if this fact were true it would've been reported over and over and over. That hasn't happened. Which leads me to believe it's Geraldo BS.>>


That makes some sense.  But on the other hand, wide reporting of this fact does nothing to help the investigation at this juncture.  It most likely would harm the investigation.  Could reporters be holding back for this reason?

What drives me crazy is the lack of response from the government.  To me, this is a serious charge against the integrity of Aruban law enforcement.  If it's all false, wouldn't you want to shout that to the heavens?  You're not giving away any information that directly impacts the investigation, and it's not like the spokespeople have anything better to say.  Why not a denial?  Unless you can't do it truthfully.
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la_cavalière
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« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2005, 01:08:58 PM »

Compananzi, so what do you think of the story of the two drug dealers by the HI? I remember one of the chaperones saying they complained to HI staff that the drug dealers were harassing the MB students.
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m.a. johnson
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« Reply #156 on: June 28, 2005, 01:11:25 PM »

Quote from: "trikand_123"
I do not post much in here. But it is rather unbelievable how this case attract so much people. It is also unbelievable how can young life "dissappear" in such way.

Lot of theories were presented in this forum, however I did not notice one i believe rather important issue, which in cas of jorans involvement may play quite significant role.

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.

On the other hand, all such conversation may end up in terrible shame if joran is proven innocent. However, nothing yet points to that so I just wanted to add some comments.


This is my thought.  I appreciated your perspective here.  The impression I get and I was thinking about this this morning is that Joran may certainly have some sort of hostility within him where his physical actions against others are an indication of his disproval of others or an attempt to control them.
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goon squad
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« Reply #157 on: June 28, 2005, 01:11:55 PM »

<<casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.>>


They admit that Natalee was in the car.  Not finding a hair, or any other shred of evidence, seems to indicate that the three DID have the expertise to pull off a caper like this.
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DivaToo
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« Reply #158 on: June 28, 2005, 01:13:25 PM »

Quote from: "absolut"
Don't forget that President Bush is live tonight at 8pm, the talking heads on all 3 news networks will be covering that first tonight. So unless there is real breaking news going into the 7pm hour that will be it probably til Greta at 10. Also may be the reason she has been so quiet today.


We should see Greta tonight, she did make the comment about seeing BHT  & Jug , and hoping it was a different conversation. I am wondering how much longer Greta is going to stay...Not long, it appears from her comments of having the same conversation every night, unless something big breaks. Unfortunately I don't think that's gonna happen soon.

I am so afraid they will not find her & these boys are going to be released Sad
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Praying for Natalee's safe return & comfort for her family
someone
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« Reply #159 on: June 28, 2005, 01:13:29 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Armchair_Detective"
Quote from: "someone"
Unfortunately, the boys will probably be released before too long


I really hope not. Mad  They need to stay the full 116 days if nothing develops before then. Are there any laws that could extend the length or if new evidence is introduced could the 116 begin again? Of course we want Natalee to be found alive, I am just curious if any1 knows if the 116 could be extended? Question


In the US i would never think they would be released...but the way this case is goin..they will be released...one of the people interviewed last night said that they dont think there will be a case, or any charges brought about, without a body...so the wya these kids are holdin up............NOT LOOKIN GOOD


But, in the US they or some of them may not have been taken in!!  We have a much higher standard for holding anyone!!!  They also can have lawyers present.



I don't think they will be held more than a few days longer
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