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Author Topic: RBN# 31 6/28/05 Tuesday  (Read 201915 times)
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Kelly
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« Reply #180 on: June 28, 2005, 01:30:59 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "someone"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "Armchair_Detective"
Quote from: "someone"
Unfortunately, the boys will probably be released before too long


I really hope not. Mad  They need to stay the full 116 days if nothing develops before then. Are there any laws that could extend the length or if new evidence is introduced could the 116 begin again? Of course we want Natalee to be found alive, I am just curious if any1 knows if the 116 could be extended? Question


In the US i would never think they would be released...but the way this case is goin..they will be released...one of the people interviewed last night said that they dont think there will be a case, or any charges brought about, without a body...so the wya these kids are holdin up............NOT LOOKIN GOOD


Yes, I agree the early days might

But, in the US they or some of them may not have been taken in!!  We have a much higher standard for holding anyone!!!  They also can have lawyers present.



I don't think they will be held more than a few days longer



after they admitted to being with her the night she dissapeared and left with her after the club.........yes they would have taken them in...then proceeded to impound their car, take their clothes, cell phones...computers...etc..... then , at that point, there would have been evidence, or reason to hold them.........No if the investgation went like this has (not doing anything for a week) then no we wouldnt be able to hold them.........but im pretty sure........forensics would have been alll over those boys, their houses, clothes, car and telephone and email records the second they were picked up............Not a week later.......


Yes, I agree the early days might have been handled in a much more aggressive fashion...enabling LE to bring in the suspects.  HOWEVER,  this is NOT always the case in the US....we aren't perfect here either.  I covered Ramsey and believe me the crime scene and much more was compromised.

But, say we had the evidence we thing they have on these three...there is no way in hell they'd be holding any of them on "reasonable suspicion"  as a constitutional lawyer just said on Fox...that' s the lowest possible standard, and to think someone could be held on that low standard for 116 days is shocking!

I don't think Beth Twitty would want anyone in her family picked up and held in that way.




I will be the first one to admit that i agree that investigations here are not always done the right way or what not.......just saying that it is natural that people would be frustrated with this investigation thats all
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Kelly
Lausa
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« Reply #181 on: June 28, 2005, 01:32:04 PM »

Quote from: "GreatOwl"
Is Joran's godfather by any chance lefthanded?   no I am not joking. Confused


 Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question  Question
I'll be reading with interest to see where this leads, seriously.
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~TAZ_MAN~
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« Reply #182 on: June 28, 2005, 01:32:41 PM »

I seriously doubt anymore highschool sponsored senior trips will take place in Aruba anytime in the near future.
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bendex
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« Reply #183 on: June 28, 2005, 01:32:54 PM »

Hi Guys,

Read the news , no hairs found of holloway in the car of deepak. Very suspicious. Obviously cleaned very well . The more I think of it the more it appears to be a "mickey mouse" investigation.

Do not think that sending specialists from the Netherlands is going to bring up anything new.

Wonder where I would start  or where others would start searching for evidence when on Aruba.
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Only the facts
trikand_123
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« Reply #184 on: June 28, 2005, 01:34:52 PM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "m.a. johnson"
Quote from: "trikand_123"
I do not post much in here. But it is rather unbelievable how this case attract so much people. It is also unbelievable how can young life "dissappear" in such way.

Lot of theories were presented in this forum, however I did not notice one i believe rather important issue, which in cas of jorans involvement may play quite significant role.

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.

On the other hand, all such conversation may end up in terrible shame if joran is proven innocent. However, nothing yet points to that so I just wanted to add some comments.


This is my thought.  I appreciated your perspective here.  The impression I get and I was thinking about this this morning is that Joran may certainly have some sort of hostility within him where his physical actions against others are an indication of his disproval of others or an attempt to control them.


I think the original poster has hit on one possible way someone like Joran might "rationalize" his actions (if indeed he did what I think he did). But it Joran were a true sociopath, he wouldn't need ANY reason. And that is the scary part. It could just as easily have been a Dutch girl, or a Venezuelan, or Colombian girl. And the results would have been the same.


I believe that it may not be that hard to find out what was his real attitude towards this issue. Usually people talk often about the things they did not agree with or hate. However, it would require a good cautious interview of his friends.
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writergal
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« Reply #185 on: June 28, 2005, 01:36:17 PM »

Quote from: "Dallas Also"
This won't be the last investigation not done well.  Other things maybe did work to their advantage though.  Time will tell.

There are two types of rumors on the island:

1. She is dead and buried somewhere
2. She is alive and is being helped or held by 2 guys

I am focused on the second rumor.



    What is the basis for the second rumor, do you know? "Helped" by two guys? What kind of "help"?
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #186 on: June 28, 2005, 01:37:08 PM »

Sorry didn't mean to goof up the bold and formatting on that last post...
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Kelly
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« Reply #187 on: June 28, 2005, 01:37:36 PM »

just like "jug" said during the interview with greta..if his son was with someone who went missing the night he was with her..he would have been at that police station the next mornin with his son.......sayin "what can we do to help" would you like a statement etc....not run from people............If you are not guilty of something........you would think he would have been there willing to help in any way possible
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Kelly
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« Reply #188 on: June 28, 2005, 01:39:13 PM »

Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "m.a. johnson"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "goon squad"
<<casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.>>


They admit that Natalee was in the car.  Not finding a hair, or any other shred of evidence, seems to indicate that the three DID have the expertise to pull off a caper like this.


Didn't someone report that Deepak had his car cleaned after this all happened? I don't remember where I saw it or read it... Can anyone confirm? If so that would explain lack of hair etc.


There is such a thing as a potential crime scene being too "clean".  It would depend on the evidence they were looking for....say, if it were blood, that would still likely be detectable whereas hair would not or skin fibers may not.  Also, is there any indication or traces of cleaning substances being used in the vehicle?  It was said that the car was being washed at 3:00 a.m. one morning but I have read no official reports of this.



Yes someone last night on Gretas interview said that he "apparently" had his car cleaned that next day, according the the car wash attendant

sorry if this posted numerous times Rolling Eyes




I siad this yesterday..if they havent already, i think they should go over that car, the house, Jorans apartment, etc.with Luminol..no cleaning in the world can hide from Luminol and a black light... Very Happy
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« Reply #189 on: June 28, 2005, 01:39:43 PM »

Next Monday will be very important.
That is the next time the "Judge of Intsruction" will have to determine if there is enough evidence to hold any or all of the boys.
After that the next time is 60 days.

That is what Marianne Croes, the Aruban Prosecution spokeswoman, said last night on Greta.
Did you ever notice Marianne never really says anything, but she is so damn cute you don't really care?

After the PVDS release by this judge it seems without further evidence to move the case along he would not be likely to hold them.

With it being the US 4th of July. The release would not get much notice in the US press. I am sure all of the Fox folks will be back in the US for the holiday. Even Greta alluded to the "same old same old" when talking to Beth Holloway last night. I think Greta is preparing her exit strategy.
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Kelly
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« Reply #190 on: June 28, 2005, 01:40:59 PM »

Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Kelly"
Quote from: "m.a. johnson"
Quote from: "DivaToo"
Quote from: "goon squad"
<<casting doubt if a young teenager Joran would have the expertise to pull a caper like this, that not even a hair is found.>>


They admit that Natalee was in the car.  Not finding a hair, or any other shred of evidence, seems to indicate that the three DID have the expertise to pull off a caper like this.


Didn't someone report that Deepak had his car cleaned after this all happened? I don't remember where I saw it or read it... Can anyone confirm? If so that would explain lack of hair etc.


There is such a thing as a potential crime scene being too "clean".  It would depend on the evidence they were looking for....say, if it were blood, that would still likely be detectable whereas hair would not or skin fibers may not.  Also, is there any indication or traces of cleaning substances being used in the vehicle?  It was said that the car was being washed at 3:00 a.m. one morning but I have read no official reports of this.



Yes someone last night on Gretas interview said that he "apparently" had his car cleaned that next day, according the the car wash attendant

sorry if this posted numerous times Rolling Eyes




I siad this yesterday..if they havent already, i think they should go over that car, the house, Jorans apartment, etc.with Luminol..no cleaning in the world can hide from Luminol and a black light... Very Happy



EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTHING WOULD TAKE IT OUT....IT WOULD DETECT IT
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Kelly
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« Reply #191 on: June 28, 2005, 01:41:40 PM »

Editorial Note:

The front page of ScaredMonkeys continues to rise in the google rankings, as does the pages on this forum. With the increased traffic I would encourage you to stay on topic and possibly limit the conversation to breaking news as you get it from your "sources".

Also limit your page refreshes to 1 per minute

This affects all threads and all parts of the site.
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Scott
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« Reply #192 on: June 28, 2005, 01:42:00 PM »

Quote from: "trikand_123"

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.


I concur with this assessment based on the interview Greta van Susteren conducted with Anita and Paulus van der Sloot.

Here is the relevant excerpt:

VAN SUSTEREN: Girlfriends?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, of course. I mean, there were two girlfriends in his life that he had a longer relationship with. One was an American girl, who left, who was part of the school, and she just sent an e-mail totally upset because she finished the relationship and she thought that Joran was too sweet, she needed a stronger man.

Why would a mother say something in an interview aired worldwide, that would be most embarrassing and humiliating to her son?

Why say, in a defensive manner, 'Yes, of course', and then immediately proceed to correct herself by saying, 'I mean...' ?

In a homophopic society like Aruba, where any absence of masculinity amongst men is denigrated and frowned upon, it is reasonable to conclude that Joran, through societal pressure, overcompensated for his perceived lack of manhood by preying upon vulnerable women whom were either extremely intoxicated, drugged or not mature enough to recognize his motive, like the 13-year old 7th grade East Asian girl he dated this past year.

With Natalee, another American girl, he likely transferred that abandonment rage upon her.

There is also reason to believe this was not an isolated or first incident.

Why would Deepak, a friend of Joran's, say that he "should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy", unless Deepak has knowledge or reason to believe that Joran is dangerous or that Natalee wouldn't be safe with him because he has a violent past with women?
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mskygirl
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« Reply #193 on: June 28, 2005, 01:42:06 PM »

If it is a fact that the car was cleaned, it shouldn't be too difficult to find out where it was cleaned.  Was it vacuumed by chance?  Seems there could be some evidence in the area of the cleaning...if this is a fact?
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #194 on: June 28, 2005, 01:42:26 PM »

Quote from: "Just Wondering"
Next Monday will be very important.
That is the next time the "Judge of Intsruction" will have to determine if there is enough evidence to hold any or all of the boys.
After that the next time is 60 days.

That is what Marianne Croes, the Aruban Prosecution spokeswoman, said last night on Greta.
Did you ever notice Marianne never really says anything, but she is so damn cute you don't really care?

After the PVDS release by this judge it seems without further evidence to move the case along he would not be likely to hold them.

With it being the US 4th of July. The release would not get much notice in the US press. I am sure all of the Fox folks will be back in the US for the holiday. Even Greta alluded to the "same old same old" when talking to Beth Holloway last night. I think Greta is preparing her exit strategy.




LOLOL..aint that the truth..she talks in circles, tries to edit herself, and never really says anything new..but she is as cute as a button and youre like, "aww, well, thats ok...i like her anyways"...I wish I were that cute...lol
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« Reply #195 on: June 28, 2005, 01:43:52 PM »

why is the luminol subject such a big deal, if he strangled her theres not giong to be any blood. Or pushed her down and she hit her head on something.  Theres plenty of ways she could have died without any blood.
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xcptnl
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« Reply #196 on: June 28, 2005, 01:44:22 PM »

Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Quote from: "Just Wondering"
Next Monday will be very important.
That is the next time the "Judge of Intsruction" will have to determine if there is enough evidence to hold any or all of the boys.
After that the next time is 60 days.

That is what Marianne Croes, the Aruban Prosecution spokeswoman, said last night on Greta.
Did you ever notice Marianne never really says anything, but she is so damn cute you don't really care?

After the PVDS release by this judge it seems without further evidence to move the case along he would not be likely to hold them.

With it being the US 4th of July. The release would not get much notice in the US press. I am sure all of the Fox folks will be back in the US for the holiday. Even Greta alluded to the "same old same old" when talking to Beth Holloway last night. I think Greta is preparing her exit strategy.




LOLOL..aint that the truth..she talks in circles, tries to edit herself, and never really says anything new..but she is as cute as a button and youre like, "aww, well, thats ok...i like her anyways"...I wish I were that cute...lol



Too funny - off topic I know (don't yell at me) but I was thinking the same thing.  Heck I was thinking alot of the females they have had on (lawyers, etc) have all been to darn cute.  Heck Marianne even had the cutest glasses.  But you are right, even when she is trying not to answer - she comes across as nice.  How thankless is her job??
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Kelly
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« Reply #197 on: June 28, 2005, 01:44:59 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "trikand_123"

I am from Europe and i can tell how young people got set against America after events in yugoslavia and recently in Iraq. It may seem plain, but I have seen young americans getting into the fight with young people in russia and I am sure some accidents of this type might have happened all around Europe. After reading dan Riehl's story of Jorans fight with american guy in local restaurant sometime in winter, squarrel preceding the dissapearance of Natalee with some classmates of Natalee, and also some comments of jorans father regarding to "this is not america" there is something telling me that this guy have these antiamerican issues. In young guys psychology this may serve as an "excuse" to whatever he did. It's kind of scary, but all his arogant behavior towards nat' mom points at it.



I concur with this assessment based on the interview Greta van Susteren conducted with Anita and Paulus van der Sloot.

Here is the relevant excerpt:

VAN SUSTEREN: Girlfriends?

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, of course. I mean, there were two girlfriends in his life that he had a longer relationship with. One was an American girl, who left, who was part of the school, and she just sent an e-mail totally upset because she finished the relationship and she thought that Joran was too sweet, she needed a stronger man.

Why would a mother say something in an interview aired worldwide, that would be most embarrassing and humiliating to her son?

Why say, in a defensive manner, 'Yes, of course', and then immediately proceed to correct herself by saying, 'I mean...' ?

In a homophopic society like Aruba, where any absence of masculinity amongst men is denigrated and frowned upon, it is reasonable to conclude that Joran, through societal pressure, overcompensated for his perceived lack of manhood by preying upon vulnerable women whom were either extremely intoxicated, drugged or not mature enough to recognize his motive, like the 13-year old 7th grade East Asian girl he dated this past year.

With Natalee, another American girl, he likely transferred that abandonment rage upon her.

There is also reason to believe this was not an isolated or first incident.

Why would Deepak, a friend of Joran's, say that he "should have never left the girl alone with the Dutch boy", unless Deepak has knowledge or reason to believe that Joran is dangerous or that Natalee wouldn't be safe with him because he has a violent past with women?


I never heard anything about deepak sayin that or "sellin out" his friend..if true..that is very interesting..i was wonderin...why we havent heard much bout the brothers at all.......anyone hear new info bout them?
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Kelly
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« Reply #198 on: June 28, 2005, 01:46:13 PM »

I fully agree with you about the next court appearance.  They do have to come up with additional reasons to hold them at each court appearance.  If there's no body and no further evidence I have a really hard time believing they'll hold them all for 60 more days...but, then I could be totally wrong.

I also said earlier this story could die fast for MSM.  I don't think that will happen for the next few days as Fox has sent even more people there in the last days.  But, the story is dependant on new info everyday.  They can only recycle so much.

AND, Fox is going for the ratings with this story.  They are doing minimal news stories on the Supreme Court, Iraq, etc.  Yes, they're doing the stories but the Natalee story is taking all their big resources.
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #199 on: June 28, 2005, 01:46:59 PM »

Quote from: "~TAZ_MAN~"
why is the luminol subject such a big deal, if he strangled her theres not giong to be any blood. Or pushed her down and she hit her head on something.  Theres plenty of ways she could have died without any blood.



That is true...but if they cleaned the car as efficiently as they supposedly did, they had to have been cleaning SOMETHING...
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